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1  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 25, 2022, 11:36:00 AM
A loss rate greater than 5% per year is an assumption, a possible scenario.
If the loss rate is too high, the person who owns Bitcoin first can take away the labor value of the new person who wants to own Bitcoin only by depositing coins.

Hoarding has the same effect, so you don't even have to have 5+% loss rate, the price will rise anyway.
But isn't it the same with gold, stocks and so on? The early birds always have a big advantage.

and newcomers will no longer want to own Bitcoin because their labor is being exploited by others.

Newcomers will want to profit themselves. This is why people are investing, actually. And with companies already acquiring bitcoin as reserve/store of value, I don't see any problem here.
Again, you have this "problem" with anything that's scarce and is being hoarded, no matter the loss rate.


The loss rate can be a problem only for the coins in circulation, used as currency. That's why people came with solutions like using satoshi or even millisat as measure unit.

I get it
I just want to know what Satoshi Nakamoto has to say about this, and it is not a problem in itself, it just determines the positioning of Bitcoin.
2  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 25, 2022, 11:22:59 AM
thank you very much.
A loss rate greater than 5% per year is an assumption, a possible scenario.

It's good that as a newbie you are thinking about these things. As for me, getting struck in the head by lightning the next time it rains is a possible scenario, but I don't base my life on it.

If the loss rate is too high, the person who owns Bitcoin first can take away the labor value of the new person who wants to own Bitcoin only by depositing coins.

I consider the premise false, therefore the conclusion false as well. Although you are partly right that as time goes by Bitcoin is more expensive, therefore it costs people more money than they earn from their labor to buy it.

And subdivide doesn't solve this problem,What it solves is the convenience of currency use. Because no matter how subdivided, new people need to use labor to acquire new bitcoins.

But I, to anyone who is hesitating whether to buy Bitcoin today, I would recommend not to think too much about it. These forums are full of people who could have bought at one point in the past, didn't and then regretted not having done so.

A good strategy is to DCA, with as much weekly or monthly as you can according to your finances. It's better that than waiting without buying and then complaining that it's too expensive and you're working too hard to get it.

thank you very much.
In systems thinking, if I find that a thunderstorm might hit me, I will install a lightning rod.
I don't think it's a problem that Satoshi Nakamoto didn't consider this aspect, it's just that the results would be different.
Bitcoin is gold, not dollars.
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 25, 2022, 04:09:15 AM
If the loss rate reaches more than 5% per year, will it seriously affect the circulation of Bitcoin.

I don't think a future annual loss rate of 5% is realistic. With currently around 19 million mined Bitcoin, this would mean that almost 1 million BTC would be lost per year. Even 1-2% I think is too much. In the past, this may have been the case, because the hodlers were more careless with the private keys, since Bitcoin had only a low value. Nowadays, Bitcoin are also priced like gold, and people are taking care of them accordingly.

It involves human nature, so naturally 1%-2% of the temperament is normal.
For example, in the selfishness of people, I have saved private money, and I don’t want to let my family know. If I die accidentally or forget the private key, the money will be lost. .
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 24, 2022, 10:53:12 AM
In the future, if the natural loss rate of the Bitcoin network is 1%-2% per year, it is not a big problem, which is equivalent to 1%-2% interest for depositors. If the loss rate reaches more than 5% per year, will it seriously affect the circulation of Bitcoin.

I don't know where you get those percentages from but certainly your assumption is exaggerated. As of today, we are not losing anything close to 5% per year. At the beginning it was more normal that many were lost, because it was a new thing, which was worth very little and people were not careful. Today, in general, much more measures are taken to avoid losing your private keys, but even so, inevitably a small percentage will continue to be lost, much smaller than the 5% per year that you suggest.

But even if they were lost that much it would not be a problem because what would happen is that the rest would be worth more and when the time came a consensus could be reached to further subdivide the remaining ones. Just as 1 Bitcoin is equivalent to 100 million Satoshis, each Satoshi could be subdivided into 100 million miniSatoshis or whatever name you want to give it. And in fact, this is something that is already done with LN because millisats are used.

Problem solved.
thank you very much.
A loss rate greater than 5% per year is an assumption, a possible scenario.
If the loss rate is too high, the person who owns Bitcoin first can take away the labor value of the new person who wants to own Bitcoin only by depositing coins.
This risk-free return is too high, and newcomers will no longer want to own Bitcoin because their labor is being exploited by others.

And subdivide doesn't solve this problem,What it solves is the convenience of currency use. Because no matter how subdivided, new people need to use labor to acquire new bitcoins.
5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 24, 2022, 10:04:59 AM
I am inclined to think that Satoshi (being it one person or a collective) did not think about the situation where BTC and crypto are at this point in time. Not that he couldn't have conceived it, but he might not think BTC should reach that point and thus never put much thought into it. Crypto is definitely pushing its boundaries further and constant changes to it should be made to meet the demands of its expansion. 
Thank you very much. If Bitcoin's economic system doesn't take into account the high loss rate, then as you said, some changes may need to be made.
If the loss rate is too high, it may affect the circulation of Bitcoin. No one is willing to let others take away the wealth they have created.
6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 24, 2022, 09:16:41 AM
Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more.  Think of it as a donation to everyone.
^ This is what Satoshi Nakamoto thought about coins being lost or burned.

I know this,did he say anything else.
worth slightly more is not bad.
the worry is that the loss rate is too high.
According to the data I know now, the bitcoins owned by bitcoin addresses that have not been moved for more than 5 years already account for 23% of the total.
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Regarding the high loss rate of Bitcoin, has Satoshi Nakamoto considered? on: March 24, 2022, 08:45:56 AM
After reading the Bitcoin white paper, there is a very big confusion, whether Satoshi Nakamoto considered the problem of the high loss rate of Bitcoin when designing Bitcoin.
In the future, if the natural loss rate of the Bitcoin network is 1%-2% per year, it is not a big problem, which is equivalent to 1%-2% interest for depositors. If the loss rate reaches more than 5% per year, will it seriously affect the circulation of Bitcoin. If Bitcoin is used as a common currency, it is equivalent to hard-working people, and the new value they create every year will all be taken away by the people who deposit the currency.
After this happens, the circulation of Bitcoin will be greatly restricted.As an expert in cryptography, it may be difficult for Satoshi Nakamoto to imagine that ordinary people have a high rate of losing coins, so in the economic model, there are only 21 million bitcoins.
If Bitcoin is only used as a store of value like gold, rather than as a universal currency like the US dollar, then its market value and imagination will be greatly reduced.
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Please recommend a wallet that can see the private key and only store Bitcoin on: March 24, 2022, 08:19:17 AM
... In the wallet I used before, every time I transfer btc, the wallet will change the private key by default, which causes me to back up the private key every time I transfer btc.And I can't see my private key either, it's hidden by the wallet. This makes my private key especially easy to lose....

Most wallets now generate private keys based on a "seed phrase" (aka "recovery phrase"). Because the private keys generated by the wallet are always the same for that seed phrase, there is no need to back up every private key. You only need to back up the seed phrase.
From what i understood from OP, every time he made a transaction, he can see that the rest of his holdings have been moved to another address (Change address) so he thinks that the private key have been updated which is absolutely not true. It's clear that he doesn't know about the all the private keys being combined in a single seed.
My suggestion for him is Electrum client which i always recommend for both experienced users or new comers because it has all the features with a friendly-use interface. Better than Electrum, i recommend using a physical hardware wallet for staking considerable amounts .

means this. thank you very much.
Electrum is really not very friendly to laymen, hahaha. But I'll study it with my heart, thanks again.
Electrum seems to be the best non-custodial client for bitcoin. It's an original bitcoin wallet which works only for bitcoin (another version also designed for Monero if i am not wrong). If you can not get familiarized with Electrum, other clients will look so sophisticated for you especially when you look for a specific feature as there are no fuly detailed documentation for each client.
I found this tutorial that can help you familiarized with Electrum (Setup) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MP_EMxypCE
If you can well practice english then this wiki can help you better : https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
However if you wanna try another client, i suggest you to choose from this list : https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet?step=5


Hahaha, my English is really not good, I am studying hard. I don't have a deep understanding of Bitcoin's technical level, but more about its economic system.thank you so much for your suggestion,benefit greatly.

I also asked a question, did Satoshi Nakamoto discuss the loss of Bitcoin when he designed Bitcoin.

In the future, if the natural loss rate of the Bitcoin network is 1%-2% per year, it will be good, which is equivalent to the interest of 1%-2% for those who deposit coins. If the loss rate reaches more than 5% per year, will it seriously affect the circulation of Bitcoin. If Bitcoin is used as a common currency, it is equivalent to hard-working people, and the new value created every year will be taken away by the people who deposit the currency.
9  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Please recommend a wallet that can see the private key and only store Bitcoin on: March 24, 2022, 08:08:43 AM
I don't trust exchanges, so I want to have a wallet with good security that can inquire private keys and only store bitcoins.
I see that many of the recommendations on the official website are multi-chain wallets.The applicability is good, but the security is not enough.In the wallet I used before, every time I transfer btc, the wallet will change the private key by default, which causes me to back up the private key every time I transfer btc.And I can't see my private key either, it's hidden by the wallet. This makes my private key especially easy to lose.
So please recommend a single-chain wallet that you think can query the private key and only store Bitcoins. The function is only to store btc, with high security, no other functions are required. For other functions, I will use a multi-chain wallet, and the money in it will be very small.
Since you are looking for a wallet that only works for bitcoin, maybe you can chose electrum.
https://www.investopedia.com/best-bitcoin-wallets-5070283#:~:text=Mycelium%20is%20an%20open%2Dsource,similar%20to%20the%20Electrum%20wallet.

Why you chose Electrum? because is it secure, open-source, and offers advanced features and options.

PROS AND CONS
Pros
Customizable transaction fees
Greater level of security than most hot wallets
Cons
Bare-bones user interface
Only works for Bitcoin

OVERVIEW
Electrum is one of the original Bitcoin wallets. It has been around since 2011, two years after Bitcoin’s creation, and has changed little since.12 While this wallet is bare-bones in terms of its user interface and commitment to only Bitcoin, it excels at this primary function. Electrum is also more suited for advanced users due to its complex options.

Electrum is open source, allows its users to set custom transaction fees, and has the option to choose between legacy Bitcoin and Segwit. It also offers users the ability to determine the level of security they wish to use. For example, you can create a standard wallet, one with 2-factor authentication, or a multi-signature wallet. You can also elongate your seed phrase with custom words.

Electrum is perfect for the more advanced Bitcoin holder who wants great security features and customizability, all in a simple layout.
Got it, thanks a lot
10  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Please recommend a wallet that can see the private key and only store Bitcoin on: March 19, 2022, 04:26:54 AM
... In the wallet I used before, every time I transfer btc, the wallet will change the private key by default, which causes me to back up the private key every time I transfer btc.And I can't see my private key either, it's hidden by the wallet. This makes my private key especially easy to lose....

Most wallets now generate private keys based on a "seed phrase" (aka "recovery phrase"). Because the private keys generated by the wallet are always the same for that seed phrase, there is no need to back up every private key. You only need to back up the seed phrase.
From what i understood from OP, every time he made a transaction, he can see that the rest of his holdings have been moved to another address (Change address) so he thinks that the private key have been updated which is absolutely not true. It's clear that he doesn't know about the all the private keys being combined in a single seed.
My suggestion for him is Electrum client which i always recommend for both experienced users or new comers because it has all the features with a friendly-use interface. Better than Electrum, i recommend using a physical hardware wallet for staking considerable amounts .

means this. thank you very much.
Electrum is really not very friendly to laymen, hahaha. But I'll study it with my heart, thanks again.
11  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why Hoard Bitcoin? on: March 18, 2022, 08:24:27 AM
First of all, you must understand what currency is, and the essence of currency is collateral.
The biggest possibility for Bitcoin in the future is a store of value, and its status is equivalent to gold in the current monetary system because it is quantitative.
The currency in circulation, taking into account the annual economic growth and currency loss issues, will be a slightly inflationary currency,Like Dogecoin. This is also the fundamental reason why Musk is bullish on Dogecoin.
But in two decades, Bitcoin is still the best investment, bar none. Because it grabs the currency issuance rights of the central banks of various countries.
12  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Please recommend a wallet that can see the private key and only store Bitcoin on: March 18, 2022, 07:50:43 AM
Software wallet

Hardware wallet
thank you very much



There is also a question, whether the seed phrase can only be used in the generated wallet, or can also be used in other wallets.
All wallet do implemented BIP39, so any wallet can recognize any seed pharse generated on other wallet since they're work same. If you can't import your seed pharse or the wallet doesn't have such features, pretty sure it's custodial wallet.

Don't need to worry if your private keys always change, it just for better privacy. If you don't want your private key changed, you can use electrum.
Got it, thanks a lot.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
13  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Please recommend a wallet that can see the private key and only store Bitcoin on: March 18, 2022, 06:18:42 AM
Using open-source and non-custodial wallets like electrum or wasabi wallet, you have full control over your bitcoins. Limit storing your bitcoins on exchanges, it is very risky to give your assets to third parties to hold.
If you are a long-term investor and you have money, better buy yourself a cold wallet( ledger, Trezor).

Thank you very much, the amount of my assets has not reached the level that I need to keep it in a cold wallet. I'm just trying to find a balance between convenience and security.



... In the wallet I used before, every time I transfer btc, the wallet will change the private key by default, which causes me to back up the private key every time I transfer btc.And I can't see my private key either, it's hidden by the wallet. This makes my private key especially easy to lose....

Most wallets now generate private keys based on a "seed phrase" (aka "recovery phrase"). Because the private keys generated by the wallet are always the same for that seed phrase, there is no need to back up every private key. You only need to back up the seed phrase.

Being concerned about multi-coin wallets with low security is fine, but any concern about a wallet using a unique address for each transaction is unfounded.
I get it. I used to think that the wallet was changing my private key, so I would re-back it up after every transfer. It turns out that only the seed is the only private key, and the others are salted.
However, is the seed of each wallet can only be used by itself and not each other?



I don't trust exchanges, so I want to have a wallet with good security that can inquire private keys and only store bitcoins.
I see that many of the recommendations on the official website are multi-chain wallets.The applicability is good, but the security is not enough.
What official website are you talking about? And what recommendations were you given?

In the wallet I used before, every time I transfer btc, the wallet will change the private key by default, which causes me to back up the private key every time I transfer btc.And I can't see my private key either, it's hidden by the wallet. This makes my private key especially easy to lose.
What wallet did you use before? Most wallets these days show the seed phrase rather than the private key for easy backup. And, after transferring bitcoins, the sending address might be changed to an unused one for privacy, but the seed phrase or xpriv remains the same.

So please recommend a single-chain wallet that you think can query the private key and only store Bitcoins. The function is only to store btc, with high security, no other functions are required. For other functions, I will use a multi-chain wallet, and the money in it will be very small.
• Bitcoin core,
• Electrum.
Thank you very much. The official website is “bitcoin.org”, wallets such as Bitcoin Wallet, when using, found that the private key is always changing, but in fact the seed has not changed.
There is also a question, whether the seed phrase can only be used in the generated wallet, or can also be used in other wallets.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
14  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Please recommend a wallet that can see the private key and only store Bitcoin on: March 18, 2022, 04:17:54 AM
I don't trust exchanges, so I want to have a wallet with good security that can inquire private keys and only store bitcoins.
I see that many of the recommendations on the official website are multi-chain wallets.The applicability is good, but the security is not enough.In the wallet I used before, every time I transfer btc, the wallet will change the private key by default, which causes me to back up the private key every time I transfer btc.And I can't see my private key either, it's hidden by the wallet. This makes my private key especially easy to lose.
So please recommend a single-chain wallet that you think can query the private key and only store Bitcoins. The function is only to store btc, with high security, no other functions are required. For other functions, I will use a multi-chain wallet, and the money in it will be very small.
15  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I get hacked, 2.4 bitcoin stolen from coinomi wallet on: March 05, 2022, 07:32:26 AM
Coin is hard to recover,Buy a lesson. You can't use this wallet to save money. The more functions, the lower the security performance,This is common sense.
16  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Btc price controlled by they might satsoshi on: March 05, 2022, 07:11:56 AM
If you are still concerned about who Nakamoto is, it means that you haven't read the bitcoin white paper, and you don't know what bitcoin is.
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