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Look at the Trading Volume, a lot of money went out of the Crypto World imo.
i was over at the dark thread an 1 of them said that people have lost coins thu our new wallet ....does any1 know if this is true? ( by the way i hold no dark only cloak coin) I have been in the IRC and on cloaktalk 24/7 no one has mentioned this.. The only people having lost coins through the wallet were some drk holders in initial rc4 release... however it seems they were able to get the coins back. I can link you the posts if you are interested. Perhaps they were confusing drk and cloak |
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Hello, cloak thread I have a little bit of conspiracy theory... it seems that since Aug 8 the price of several "anon coins" have been linked, specifically I've been looking at the prices of drk, cloak, and sdc. There is heavy correspondence to keeping these coins at even ratios, and none of these coins have responded well w'r't news such as rc4 release / cloak posav1 / sdc mobile pos. I suspect the coins are being traded on an index (being kept at relative proportion) and as confidence in anon coins in general has gone down (perhaps inspired by incessant trolling between communities or other factors, I'm not sure), so have each of the individual coins... Anyway my recommendation is that their is more cooperation and less animosities between the communities to raise the respectability of anon coins in total.. each coin will find it's own niche in time I suspect
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Hello, I posted a bit earlier to learn more about drk... I have a little bit of conspiracy theory... it seems that since Aug 8 the price of several "anon coins" have been linked, specifically I've been looking at the prices of drk, cloak, and sdc. There is heavy correspondence to keeping these coins at even ratios, and none of these coins have responded well w'r't news such as rc4 release / cloak posav1 / sdc mobile pos. I suspect the coins are being traded on an index (being kept at relative proportion) and as confidence in anon coins in general has gone down (perhaps inspired by incessant trolling between communities or other factors, I'm not sure), so have each of the individual coins... Anyway my recommendation is that their is more cooperation and less animosities between the communities to raise the respectability of anon coins in total.. each coin will find it's own niche in time I suspect
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Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
What is being traced? You have 1% chance of traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. My original question was why are there different numbers of masternodes being chosen, in other words, 1, 2, etc.. rounds of mixing. the purpose of this question was I was wondering the speed of transaction involved. The answer was that "The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions." and a spreadsheet was given with the probability of de-anoning happening. So as I understand it, the spreadsheet is telling you the chance of a de-anon'd transaction. Is this incorrect? My main point here is why do I have to do many hops if it takes a long time? If I only have to do 1 hops, why is there an option for 2 hops? why not just always do 1 hops? I personally think anything more than 2 hops is overkill, unless the coins came from a personally identifiable source like an exchange with my real name on it. And it would just be silly to use your real name. I see, so the main problems would be when doing darkcoin linked to other goods such as bitcoins, or things which can be traceable through the mail or something.. or personal transactions with the coin.. if you are just transferring darkcoins from wallet to wallet then not a problem? Yes. That is my understanding. Thx for the discussion yeah it's like your cloakcoin but pow and not a pos rollback coin. it's trustless and your money can't be stolen by a man in the middle attack like in posa v1. also you don't have to worry about the federal gov tracking down the devs and shutting down your coin and losing all you money because people are using the onemarket thing to sell wacky tobacky. if you can't even sell weed on onemarket then what use is it? might as well just use openbazzar or darkmarket (no relation to darkcoin). I'd rather not talk about cloak on the drk thread however since I don't want to upset people - if you want to discuss the mathematics of the anonymity of a masternode based coin vs a fully decentralized coin, I'd be happy to start a completely new thread or you can start one and send me a pm to discuss.. If you want to discuss the pros / cons of one-market probably best to post it in the cloak thread ---even better post it to cloaktalk.org |
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Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
What is being traced? You have 1% chance of traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. My original question was why are there different numbers of masternodes being chosen, in other words, 1, 2, etc.. rounds of mixing. the purpose of this question was I was wondering the speed of transaction involved. The answer was that "The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions." and a spreadsheet was given with the probability of de-anoning happening. So as I understand it, the spreadsheet is telling you the chance of a de-anon'd transaction. Is this incorrect? My main point here is why do I have to do many hops if it takes a long time? If I only have to do 1 hops, why is there an option for 2 hops? why not just always do 1 hops? I personally think anything more than 2 hops is overkill, unless the coins came from a personally identifiable source like an exchange with my real name on it. And it would just be silly to use your real name. I see, so the main problems would be when doing darkcoin linked to other goods such as bitcoins, or things which can be traceable through the mail or something.. or personal transactions with the coin.. if you are just transferring darkcoins from wallet to wallet then not a problem? Yes. That is my understanding. Thx for the discussion |
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It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
Are you sure they are independent? These aren't dice, binomial distribution may not apply. Considering this is a network i would doubt the trials are independent. It would take some rather deep analysis of the process to see what the dependence is, but I expect the lowest probability of getting de-anon'd should be the independent probability case since any relation between the transactions should make them easier to de-anon, given proper analysis. |
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Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
What is being traced? You have 1% chance of traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. My original question was why are there different numbers of masternodes being chosen, in other words, 1, 2, etc.. rounds of mixing. the purpose of this question was I was wondering the speed of transaction involved. The answer was that "The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions." and a spreadsheet was given with the probability of de-anoning happening. So as I understand it, the spreadsheet is telling you the chance of a de-anon'd transaction. Is this incorrect? My main point here is why do I have to do many hops if it takes a long time? If I only have to do 1 hops, why is there an option for 2 hops? why not just always do 1 hops? I personally think anything more than 2 hops is overkill, unless the coins came from a personally identifiable source like an exchange with my real name on it. And it would just be silly to use your real name. I see, so the main problems would be when doing darkcoin linked to other goods such as bitcoins, or things which can be traceable through the mail or something.. or personal transactions with the coin.. if you are just transferring darkcoins from wallet to wallet then not a problem? |
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Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events
What is being traced? You have 1% chance of traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. My original question was why are there different numbers of masternodes being chosen, in other words, 1, 2, etc.. rounds of mixing. the purpose of this question was I was wondering the speed of transaction involved. The answer was that "The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions." and a spreadsheet was given with the probability of de-anoning happening. So as I understand it, the spreadsheet is telling you the chance of a de-anon'd transaction. Is this incorrect? My main point here is why do I have to do many hops if it takes a long time? If I only have to do 1 hops, why is there an option for 2 hops? why not just always do 1 hops? |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously? No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon. What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised. Use more than 2 rounds. Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right...... Math ph.d candidate here... and I'm genuinely asking questions so if I'm making a mistake somewhere please point it out to me.. the problem is laid out as I see it as follows: In the given spreadsheet, for 60 / 600 compromised nodes there is a .98% chance of the coins being traced (using 2 hops of mixing). So let's round that to 1% to simply the math. Now if you only do one transaction, then that's a low chance. But I want to use coins more than once. So lets say I do something that has a 1% of happening for 100 times. What is the chance that one of those times it will happen? The math is laid out here: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx very nicely. Apparently it's a 63% that one of these times it will happen. As I've said, 3-4 times per day / month is about 100 times. So if I want to make about 100 transactions anonymously per month, that means there is a 63% that one of them will be discovered i.e. "I get caught" Now, I'm asking how does this change for more hops... I feel like this is a very good and interesting question. Please let me know so I (and others) can udnerstand the level of anonymity provided. Only applies if the coin source is constant. That is not the case in reality. Coins come from different addresses, which have themselves been mixed. Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet. Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised. Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized. An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously? No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon. What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised. Use more than 2 rounds. Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK The process is only long (and by that if I mean a couple hours) if you are doing 4/5k coins through a lot of rounds. A few hundred coins is fast even at 8 rounds. If you are doing 3-4 transactions per day during hours you are awake (say 15 hours a day) then you are looking at a 4-5 hours gap between sends on average. So unless you are wanting to send like 5k coins 3-4 times a day you won't be inconvenienced. That number of coins sent that often is what we call an edge case. And then there the fact that maybe only 500-600 people even have more than 5000 DRK to begin with... I will take the "wait" involved with this system any day over using mixers (built into the coin or otherwise) that might steal your coins. Thanks for the answer, that gives me a good understanding of the waiting involved. The main use case I would think for DRK would be for someone who is an online seller of goods (the clients are doing much less transactions, so the interesting case is the seller) who may make at least 3-4 transactions in their daily buying and reselling of goods which could be from 1-2000 relative to usd (I'm not sure what the current DRK exchange rate is), so it could sometimes be a reasonably large number of coins depending on the exchange rate. Additionally, if you have any idea on where I could find statistics for probability of the transaction being traced for larger numbers of hops I would be very interested to calculate some scenarios. |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously? No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon. What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised. Use more than 2 rounds. Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right...... Math ph.d candidate here... and I'm genuinely asking questions so if I'm making a mistake somewhere please point it out to me.. the problem is laid out as I see it as follows: In the given spreadsheet, for 60 / 600 compromised nodes there is a .98% chance of the coins being traced (using 2 hops of mixing). So let's round that to 1% to simply the math. Now if you only do one transaction, then that's a low chance. But I want to use coins more than once. So lets say I do something that has a 1% of happening for 100 times. What is the chance that one of those times it will happen? The math is laid out here: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx very nicely. Apparently it's a 63% that one of these times it will happen. As I've said, 3-4 times per day / month is about 100 times. So if I want to make about 100 transactions anonymously per month, that means there is a 63% that one of them will be discovered i.e. "I get caught" Now, I'm asking how does this change for more hops... I feel like this is a very good and interesting question. Please let me know so I (and others) can udnerstand the level of anonymity provided. |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously? No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon. What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised. Use more than 2 rounds. Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously? No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon. What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised. |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? The several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works. https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously? |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!! Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous? |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to. I see, so if I understand you, the delay is from once you've received the coins until you can spend them safely |
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CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?
Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously? |
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...(sorry for not quoting whole thing)
I am not the one that made a coin and ask you to invest in me... did I? Also, I didn't ask you for your real name, because that doesn't matter. The "team members" that are shown off on the other hand are important because they claim they have all these people working on it. But... in reality? Who knows? Probably one single person only? That's the point.
No one asks you to invest, invest if you feel comfortable, and if you evaluate the tech to be useful. If you think not knowing satoshi nakamotos real identity is ok, then it may follow that not knowing real identities of other developers is ok... From seeing a bunch of the devs talking to each other in the IRC, it would be hard for me to believe that they are all the same person, but I guess it could be possible? |
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Argh what's wrong with Anon Coins?
DRK -12%
CLOAK -14%
XC -10%
I suggested these % points but not negative...
Friday Dump Day? From now on I'm playing every Friday like it's dump day.. |
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blah blah blah ...
Salute!
wow such clever, many awesome words, so troll |
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