[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Kaze]

I was right.  Trading 7 times lower from when I wrote that.  Hope you listened to me.

Posa is crap.  Camo is crap.  This fall has been so telling.  I'm sad too no doubt, but the ecosystem is killing itself.  Anyone manipulating the price, as some think, would be killing the coin we assume they are trying to harvest.  I awoke first thing Wednesday to good news about a release candidate coming out.  It would need to be reworked.  Immediately an ass, camo, bombards the thread with his personal shit.  Fuck you.  I mean that sincerely.  Fuck off.  I have more interesting stories to tell than your litany of shit and emo narcissism.  Fuck off.  

So we are left with this fall to contemplate.  I hate bugs, but who has been relentless in trying for 8 months.  Honor coin?  Kore coin?  Super coin?  The pos anom are faulted, a scam to produce the coins quickly to play ball.  Observe for yourself the distribution.  Over half the wallets of many of them are fake dust collectors. The dust will settle eventually, and an efficient market will take hold.  There is limitless value to what darkcoin possesses.  I'm in a beneficial position, of course I would have liked to sell all at the top instead of half and be left with 60 btc to buy now.  Crypto investing is nuts to say the least.  I'm sad that emo junkies have been feasting here and preying on the perfect storm.  

Ethereum has sucked a lot of the tradable btc from the market.  order books are so thin across the board.  It is a totally different game.  It is my hope that in this carnage, true innovation will rise.  Good luck, however you choose to go.  I have seen nothing even close to what this is.

Kaze

It is coming, and that right soon.  Who will break ranks first.  Wallet number 4, maybe wallet number 7 or 11.  Wallet number 15-18 are the same person, maybe it will be him.  Payday is here to the few.  Take it or be mad wondering which of the few beat you to it.  One law in crypto.  What rises comes down.  It's universal truth.

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/1413-butthurt.png

[eahmadov]

Drk has working anon, yet the market dumps. Go figure.

I have seen hundreds of manipulations since early Mt.Gox times. Sometimes the reason for massive price decrease is little technical factors. For example, very few noticed that Bitstamp changed their bank account and that created confusion and temporarily slowed down deposits. On top of that Bitstamp was on holiday on Friday- this means no fresh fiat for one of the biggest exchanges for 3 days in a row (these three days coincides with the post-RC4 period when darkcoin markets were desperate for additional liquidity). Of course whales took advantage of these factors and soon they will be buying back dirt cheap.

I can assure that there going to be substantial price increase both in BTC market and in DRK market when the banks start to process deposits on Monday and Tuesday. And the main reason why I am confident especially on darkcoin is because now we finally have a product that markets are desperate for- a working anonymous currency. This is a product that everybody (from darkweb markets to Chinese shadow bankers) needs. Keep in mind that Darkcoin community hasn't even started their official marketing program. This is going to be huge.

[JGCMiner]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

[Coolstoryteller]

I was right.  Trading 7 times lower from when I wrote that.  Hope you listened to me.

Posa is crap.  Camo is crap.  This fall has been so telling.  I'm sad too no doubt, but the ecosystem is killing itself.  Anyone manipulating the price, as some think, would be killing the coin we assume they are trying to harvest.  I awoke first thing Wednesday to good news about a release candidate coming out.  It would need to be reworked.  Immediately an ass, camo, bombards the thread with his personal shit.  Fuck you.  I mean that sincerely.  Fuck off.  I have more interesting stories to tell than your litany of shit and emo narcissism.  Fuck off.  

So we are left with this fall to contemplate.  I hate bugs, but who has been relentless in trying for 8 months.  Honor coin?  Kore coin?  Super coin?  The pos anom are faulted, a scam to produce the coins quickly to play ball.  Observe for yourself the distribution.  Over half the wallets of many of them are fake dust collectors. The dust will settle eventually, and an efficient market will take hold.  There is limitless value to what darkcoin possesses.  I'm in a beneficial position, of course I would have liked to sell all at the top instead of half and be left with 60 btc to buy now.  Crypto investing is nuts to say the least.  I'm sad that emo junkies have been feasting here and preying on the perfect storm.  

Ethereum has sucked a lot of the tradable btc from the market.  order books are so thin across the board.  It is a totally different game.  It is my hope that in this carnage, true innovation will rise.  Good luck, however you choose to go.  I have seen nothing even close to what this is.

Kaze

It is coming, and that right soon.  Who will break ranks first.  Wallet number 4, maybe wallet number 7 or 11.  Wallet number 15-18 are the same person, maybe it will be him.  Payday is here to the few.  Take it or be mad wondering which of the few beat you to it.  One law in crypto.  What rises comes down.  It's universal truth.

How's your investment doing here? Let it flow through you. BTW, can you link me your github? I'd love to see your contribution to crypto, since you are so quick to throw criticism around.

[CripLib]

Me too... If that bug is handled Monday, I'll be back to long hodl. If it's not, I'll just bail when I see a peak. I tried to put the issue out there, but this is worse than "patriotism." Some of these people would stab out their own eyes to avoid seeing what they don't want to see...

Please, wait to dump all your DRKs on monday in order that I have time to send more BTC to the exchange, I beg you...
 

I hate that my BTCs are never ready when there's good opportunity to buy cheap DRKs :/

Posa is crap.  Camo is crap.  This fall has been so telling.  I'm sad too no doubt, but the ecosystem is killing itself.  Anyone manipulating the price, as some think, would be killing the coin we assume they are trying to harvest.  I awoke first thing Wednesday to good news about a release candidate coming out.  It would need to be reworked.  Immediately an ass, camo, bombards the thread with his personal shit.  Fuck you.  I mean that sincerely.  Fuck off.  I have more interesting stories to tell than your litany of shit and emo narcissism.  Fuck off. 

So we are left with this fall to contemplate.  I hate bugs, but who has been relentless in trying for 8 months.  Honor coin?  Kore coin?  Super coin?  The pos anom are faulted, a scam to produce the coins quickly to play ball.  Observe for yourself the distribution.  Over half the wallets of many of them are fake dust collectors. The dust will settle eventually, and an efficient market will take hold.  There is limitless value to what darkcoin possesses.  I'm in a beneficial position, of course I would have liked to sell all at the top instead of half and be left with 60 btc to buy now.  Crypto investing is nuts to say the least.  I'm sad that emo junkies have been feasting here and preying on the perfect storm. 

Ethereum has sucked a lot of the tradable btc from the market.  order books are so thin across the board.  It is a totally different game.  It is my hope that in this carnage, true innovation will rise.  Good luck, however you choose to go.  I have seen nothing even close to what this is.

Kaze

Great post. Thank you.

[DarthPiggy]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

[snogcel]

Did you bring the toll?

http://vimeo.com/18386919

[Freckleg]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right......

[Coolstoryteller]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right......

So much hate, so much anger.

[DarthPiggy]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right......

Math ph.d candidate here... and I'm genuinely asking questions so if I'm making a mistake somewhere please point it out to me.. the problem is laid out as I see it as follows: In the given spreadsheet, for 60 / 600 compromised nodes there is a .98% chance of the coins being traced (using 2 hops of mixing). So let's round that to 1% to simply the math. Now if you only do one transaction, then that's a low chance. But I want to use coins more than once. So lets say I do something that has a 1% of happening for 100 times. What is the chance that one of those times it will happen? The math is laid out here: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx  very nicely. Apparently it's a 63% that one of these times it will happen. As I've said, 3-4 times per day / month is about 100 times. So if I want to make about 100 transactions anonymously per month, that means there is a 63% that one of them will be discovered i.e. "I get caught" Now, I'm asking how does this change for more hops... I feel like this is a very good and interesting question. Please let me know so I (and others) can udnerstand the level of anonymity provided.

[JGCMiner]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

The process is only long (and by that if I mean a couple hours) if you are doing 4/5k coins through a lot of rounds.

A few hundred coins is fast even at 8 rounds. If you are doing 3-4 transactions per day during hours you are awake (say 15 hours a day) then you are looking at a 4-5 hours gap between sends on average. So unless you are wanting to send like 5k coins 3-4 times a day you won't be inconvenienced. That number of coins sent that often is what we call an edge case. And then there the fact that maybe only 500-600 people even have more than 5000 DRK to begin with...

I will take the "wait" involved with this system any day over using mixers (built into the coin or otherwise) that might steal your coins.

[bigrcanada]

I was right.  Trading 7 times lower from when I wrote that.  Hope you listened to me.

How's your investment doing here? Let it flow through you. BTW, can you link me your github? I'd love to see your contribution to crypto, since you are so quick to throw criticism around.

lol... still 200% up since when i first bought in,  thanks for asking.  who are all these meat chickens?  lol oh man,  dark coin,  please go to undet a dollar back to the first investors price so we can get rid of thesw fuck wads.

[DarthPiggy]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

The process is only long (and by that if I mean a couple hours) if you are doing 4/5k coins through a lot of rounds.

A few hundred coins is fast even at 8 rounds. If you are doing 3-4 transactions per day during hours you are awake (say 15 hours a day) then you are looking at a 4-5 hours gap between sends on average. So unless you are wanting to send like 5k coins 3-4 times a day you won't be inconvenienced. That number of coins sent that often is what we call an edge case. And then there the fact that maybe only 500-600 people even have more than 5000 DRK to begin with...

I will take the "wait" involved with this system any day over using mixers (built into the coin or otherwise) that might steal your coins.

Thanks for the answer, that gives me a good understanding of the waiting involved. The main use case I would think for DRK would be for someone who is an online seller of goods (the clients are doing much less transactions, so the interesting case is the seller) who may make at least 3-4 transactions  in their daily buying and reselling of goods which could be from 1-2000 relative to usd (I'm not sure what the current DRK exchange rate is), so it could sometimes be a reasonably large number of coins depending on the exchange rate. Additionally, if you have any idea on where I could find statistics for probability of the transaction being traced for larger numbers of hops I would be very interested to calculate some scenarios.

[camosoul]

Looking forward to the bounce.

Me too... If that bug is handled Monday, I'll be back to long hodl. If it's not, I'll just bail when I see a peak. I tried to put the issue out there, but this is worse than "patriotism." Some of these people would stab out their own eyes to avoid seeing what they don't want to see...

Sorry for the dumb question, but I'm short on time, LOL, what bug was found please?

Cuz it's you...

I've been accused of being a troll for finding a problem that nobody wants to believe exists. DS+ just quits working when a wallet gets to an as-yet undetermined size. I've tested it by starting out with small amounts, sending in more... After several thousand in DRK is there, it just stops. No matter what I set it to denom, if the wallet gets big, it quits. It's not a matter of not finding a suitable pair, it doesn't even look... Just stops. It doesn't slow down, it just plain stops. No log data produced. Just sits there. No new addresses, nothing... DS+ stops. Initially, it used to loop fees and never increase denom depth... No idea why it changed behavior. I've also noticed that when I tell it to only denom 100drk or 50drk, it still breaks up chunks of 900... I sent Evan a screenshot of this.

With small quantities it works great tho...

I've had enough of the "people" here giving me shit about it. Almost everyone is on my ignore list at this point. Accusing me of trolling the price down to buy more... I don't see it as a reason to sell. If nothing is done about it and the trend of denial/insults extends further up the chain, then yeah, I'd probably sell... Since this is yet to be seen, I fail to see how I can be a troll for a motivation that has not yet occurred and doesn't suit my interests...

[Rux]

while waiting bitfinex deposit... im trying to get some btc on PD3... i just bought 1 DRK with pure luck

[Ozziecoin]

Math ph.d candidate here... and I'm genuinely asking questions so if I'm making a mistake somewhere please point it out to me.. the problem is laid out as I see it as follows: In the given spreadsheet, for 60 / 600 compromised nodes there is a .98% chance of the coins being traced (using 2 hops of mixing). So let's round that to 1% to simply the math. Now if you only do one transaction, then that's a low chance. But I want to use coins more than once. So lets say I do something that has a 1% of happening for 100 times. What is the chance that one of those times it will happen? The math is laid out here: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx  very nicely. Apparently it's a 63% that one of these times it will happen. As I've said, 3-4 times per day / month is about 100 times. So if I want to make about 100 transactions anonymously per month, that means there is a 63% that one of them will be discovered i.e. "I get caught" Now, I'm asking how does this change for more hops... I feel like this is a very good and interesting question. Please let me know so I (and others) can udnerstand the level of anonymity provided.

Only applies if the coin source is constant. That is not the case in reality. Coins come from different addresses, which have themselves been mixed.

[snogcel]

We're at ring zero folks... get your heads on straight

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/stepped-ring-zero-yet-bitcoin-regret-story/2014/08/13

[DarthPiggy]

CAN NOBODY HERE SEE WHAT I AM POSTING?

Question: I have read your post and a bit confused. I am new to drk, can you give me a break down of how much time it should takes to send various amounts of dark anonymously?

Dark anonymizes the funds ahead of time and is constantly mixing the coin supply. This way when you need to spend, the transactions are immediate no need to wait. People are experimenting with how much time it takes to put large amount of DRK through the maximum 8 rounds of mixing which is an absolute over kill from a practical perspective, but is inevitable to want to test the system limits. But really you just anonymize once at your leisure and your anon coins sit there ready to be spent when you need to.

Indeed ! People are not getting it! ... I put my coins on a ridiculous 4 round and only took about 2h to get 4000 DRK totally anonymised, and at a fraction cost so low its almost daft to consider!!

Ok one further question.. Can you explain what is the difference between 1 round, 2 round, 3, etc of mixing. Why is 8 rounds even an option if 1 round is sufficient? How do you know how many rounds to pick to get anonymous?

The  several rounds are just to eliminate the possibility of a large number of masternodes  colluding with each other to deanon transactions. The possibility of that happening is very very low with 2 hops and with 8 rounds is just practically impossible. There is a spreadsheet showing the probabilities in the link below and also an explanation from Evan on how it works.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-updates-july-15th.1788/

thx for the info. So if I understand this correctly, using this mathematics: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx
60 of the current 600 masternodes are owned by bad actors, and I send 100 transactions at a rate of 2 hops, then there is a 63% chance that one will get detected? Is this right and is there any way to avoid this if I want to do a large number of transactions anonymously?

No in that scenario there is a 0.98% chance that party that owns 60 masternodes can deanon a particular transaction. See no single masternode knows what is up in a round you have to own the 2 that are randonmly selected in each round. If only one node is selected that is not compromised the attacker looses the trail. Plus the mixing happens ahead of time and the spending at any given time so timing attacks are pointless. But I am not an expert just sharing what I understand, just wait for Kristov Atlas review which should come out soon.

What I am saying is that, since there is a .98% of any single transaction (as you have said) then given any 100 single transactions, there is a 63% that at least one of them will be discovered. This is regardless of whether the transactions are related or not, just any 100 single transactions at 1% should give a 63% chance of at least one of them being comprimised.

Use more than 2 rounds.

Ok, so at 2 rounds it's likely to be unsecure if you are doing say 3-4 transactions / day for a month with the variables above.. So let's bump the rounds up to 3 rounds. Are there statistics somewhere for that? I didn't seem them on thespreadsheet.. I'd like to figure out how many dark transactions I can make with different variables before I am likely to get caught using Dark. In addition, won't using more rounds make the anonymizing process longer? is this likely to be an inconveniently long time, or just a little bit longer. Is there any statistics for how much longer per each round? The key question I am wondering is how to find the "sweet spot" of number of rounds and convenience for anonymous transactions using DRK

DarthPiggy, read a math book first. You are right if the change on winning the lottery is 1 in 28 mil, one lottery ticket has a 100% change.......right......

Math ph.d candidate here... and I'm genuinely asking questions so if I'm making a mistake somewhere please point it out to me.. the problem is laid out as I see it as follows: In the given spreadsheet, for 60 / 600 compromised nodes there is a .98% chance of the coins being traced (using 2 hops of mixing). So let's round that to 1% to simply the math. Now if you only do one transaction, then that's a low chance. But I want to use coins more than once. So lets say I do something that has a 1% of happening for 100 times. What is the chance that one of those times it will happen? The math is laid out here: https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080126081910AAdbGVx  very nicely. Apparently it's a 63% that one of these times it will happen. As I've said, 3-4 times per day / month is about 100 times. So if I want to make about 100 transactions anonymously per month, that means there is a 63% that one of them will be discovered i.e. "I get caught" Now, I'm asking how does this change for more hops... I feel like this is a very good and interesting question. Please let me know so I (and others) can udnerstand the level of anonymity provided.

Only applies if the coin source is constant. That is not the case in reality. Coins come from different addresses, which have themselves been mixed.

Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events

[TanteStefana2]

Looking forward to the bounce.

Me too... If that bug is handled Monday, I'll be back to long hodl. If it's not, I'll just bail when I see a peak. I tried to put the issue out there, but this is worse than "patriotism." Some of these people would stab out their own eyes to avoid seeing what they don't want to see...

Sorry for the dumb question, but I'm short on time, LOL, what bug was found please?

Cuz it's you...

I've been accused of being a troll for finding a problem that nobody wants to believe exists. DS+ just quits working when a wallet gets to an as-yet undetermined size. I've tested it by starting out with small amounts, sending in more... After several thousand in DRK is there, it just stops. No matter what I set it to denom, if the wallet gets big, it quits. It's not a matter of not finding a suitable pair, it doesn't even look... Just stops. It doesn't slow down, it just plain stops. No log data produced. Just sits there. No new addresses, nothing... DS+ stops. Initially, it used to loop fees and never increase denom depth... No idea why it changed behavior. I've also noticed that when I tell it to only denom 100drk or 50drk, it still breaks up chunks of 900... I sent Evan a screenshot of this.

With small quantities it works great tho...

I've had enough of the "people" here giving me shit about it. Almost everyone is on my ignore list at this point. Accusing me of trolling the price down to buy more... I don't see it as a reason to sell. If nothing is done about it and the trend of denial/insults extends further up the chain, then yeah, I'd probably sell... Since this is yet to be seen, I fail to see how I can be a troll for a motivation that has not yet occurred and doesn't suit my interests...

Ah, you're on here too much, camo!  It's not good for the soul!  Too many trolls, and it's finally getting to you!  Alas, you're not invincible!  I'm having trouble as well.  My wallet freezes on my win7/64bit machine.  I have no idea what is wrong.  Nobody else has the problem apparently and I've spent the last day and a half or so running diagnostics and malware scanners, etc... but can't find anything.  I don't  know what's wront, it makes connections, but the blockchain download is super slow and the wallet keeps going non-responsive.  I'm trying to do a tutorial on how to use the wallet, but I can't use it myself!  LOL.  it does work on my Linux though, however, I want it to work on my windows, and since I have a problem, I think I need to figure it out.

So yah, there are probably a few hiccups left in there.  The guys really work it over on testnet, but there are no masternodes running old versions there, no miners running pre-masternode paying wallets, Though they tried, you still have to jump into the deep end of main net to find all the hiccups   Hey, take a break from here, it's so depressing in here, watch a good movie instead (Just watched true Grit tonight   Great one!)

[Ozziecoin]

Perhaps I am still misstating the math or misunderstanding the spread-sheet.
Let's say I have 1 different coin sources. 60/600 compromised nodes I choose 2 hops and make 1 transaction. Then according to the spreadsheet, that one transaction has 1% chance of being compromised.
Now lets say I have 100 different coin sources, one for each of 100 transactions. 60/600 compromized nodes at a 2-hop rate. Now each transaction itself has a 1% chance of compromise. thus in total, 63% that at least one of them is compromized.
An example: let's say I have 100 dice with each having 100 sides. So each dice has 1/100 chance of rolling a "7". Now if I roll all 100, then there is 63% chance that at least one out of the 100 gets a "7", regardless of the fact that they are different dice. It's just acumulating the independent probabilities of the unrelated events

What is being traced? You have 1% chance of being traced back to the one address. But that original address has no context. The coins for that address has itself been mixed. The weakness of Btc is linkability all the way back to merkle root.

Edit: darkcoin is a fog machine.