I have another court date set for April. This is to determine culpability of Alex Sovu and others in relation to the sales there of.

Gathering evidence and formulating the case with the lawyers, as soon as i have any further news i will post it.

Bitcz

Also....

https://i.imgur.com/6AMHCdl.jpg

http://uk.linkedin.com/in/danielandronic

this is Daniel.... I've yet to identify the girl, but i think it might be IULIA CRISTINA IXARI

The quite possibly the man i saw yesterday is actually Alexandru

Ok.. so here's the skinny so far.

Small claims that i brought Alexandru to court with.. was set aside. Note, not dismissed.

We were both told that we need to seek legal advice on this and then we'd be notified on a new date for the hearing, to which i have two lawyers firms set up for this, both specialise in corporate litigation,  so I'm pretty good to go.

Now, the other side is Alexandru claimed that he resides in china most of the time, so this is going to present an issue with court hearings later, but the judge said that he can make use of video conferencing facility but he had to arrange it with the court.


I won't go into details about the case as he and his minions have access to this forum, however, this is far from over he just doesn't understand how much evidence i have against him so he can't assess how much defence he needs to prepare. he had a whole bunch of paper work just like i did, but i never got mine out, he pulled some of his and it is pretty bland stuff.

well I've seen Alexandru.. or at least someone proporting to be him.

and i can say, the trade fair picture of him and the blonde girl... that aint him. Possibly this Daniel guy... maybe.
Alexandru is 6.3 / 6.4 slim, Mediterranean complexion, dark brown hair, maybe 115 KG or a bit lighter.. very slight build i would say a tall glass of thin to be honest.

court case been put back from 10am to 12pm... so im stooging around waiting our turn.

ill update you on what i find.

Bitcz

more the merrier

post what you have so i can sift it and present if its valid.

have to be careful, it can't be unfounded or baseless as it won't be admissible.. but if its presented as supporting evidence on his character then i think maybe its worth including.

Hey all,

Just wanted to post a quick update...

I'm in court in Reading on the 9th, my case is against Alexandru Ion Sovu and im going to bat against him in the UK as they are ignoring everything thrown at them in hong kong.

My first attempt was at his old address, it went ignored and i was found in favour, i then arrange for baliffs to go to his house and recover and then he magically appeared saying he was not around, didn't get the original legal notices and has since moved address.

So now its to his new address and the court case is being heard on the 9th so i get to meet alex in person, present my evidence, and that from all the records and trails on the internet that lead from blackarrowsoftware ltd to destino to bbytes and so on.

Plus the other supporting evidence im presenting regarding his trouble in romania when he and cristina were arrested for over 50000usd credit card fraud will help the case to prove he is still scamming, just using a new twist on the matter and the fact he's operating in the UK and not registered at companies how so no tax is being filed if nothing else will present a clear can of VAT evasion.

Anyone who'd like to "meet" Alex and can be in reading on the 9th Febuary 10am at the reading county court

bitcz@outlook.com

oh.. that explains it... 

i guess they need to switch host...

anyone taking bets that the database wasn't backed up and they lost all the data on the whole site?

anyone trying to get to the blackarrow site... your not gonna be able to...

webserver hosted at address http://91.205.173.3/ is down

doing a DNS check their NS servers are still up and running, but interestingly.. both point to the 91.205.173.3 and 185.2.102.115

185.2.102.115 is their forum server... ecointalk... which a lot of people have been blocked from accessing now
91.205.173.3 is the main blackarrowsoftware.com web server... which is currently not responding to requests at all.

anyone got any other info about this ?

I think that being a director of a company is the ultimate buck stop in any organisation.

Besides, i think i can prove fraud with this little incident and also something else i dug up that would have him stricken from being able to hold directorship in the uk.

The interweb is a wonderful thing if you know where to look

Hi,

This thread is being made to keep a track of actions and updated regarding BlackArrow and the information against them.


  I've posted on their main website, called them out and they responded with the usual tactics of delays and lies
  I posted information about my legal stance and what i was doing to take them to court... they deleted my posts
  I have a nice long chat in PM with them... they ended up deleting my account
  I posted some good intel on the other BA thread here.. and BA deleted that as well... so im creating this thread that they cannot control or manipulate.




So currently i have legal actions going in two different countries against BA LTD in china with some lawyers in Hong Kong who are currently looking of the information i've sent them and  in the UK, Alex Sovu and Bbyte ltd are now under fire legally... they will find out in a few days and they i hope to get to meet Alex in court.... failing that, make sure he never ever has directorship of a company in the UK at all ever again.

I started out like yourselves, a customer, eager to buy into their product, i sent my money, followed their rules.. but eventually got fed up of the lies and lack of communication and the stalling and more lack of communication. So i asked for my money back... they refused. Claiming the T&C's were binding.... unfortunately they aren't and Chinese law trumps any company T&C if found unwarranted and unfair in case where it's proven that the company withheld monies rightfully due to be refunded to customers under Chinese law.

The Aim, to get a refund
The Cost, what ever it takes
The Result, a refund or i loose my order
The End Game, if i loose my money, to personally make sure Alex Sovu never works or earns a penny in the UK ever again

So to this end i collected over 50 other customer details, and sent them over to the lawyers in Hong Kong.. am still waiting on how that's going to turn out, but there's definite grounds to have stock impounded until it's sorted out. In the UK i have engaged lawyers to seek and gain from Alex a court appearance as a test case for my own personal case with him and Bbyte. If proven i aim to clear him out and petition companies house and the courts to ban him from ever taking a director role in a UK company.

Resellers

Unfortunately you guys are caught in the crossfire, you probably signed up and paid out a hefty costing reseller contract.. sorry... can't help you out there.. you might well be called to give evidence in the courts.
Anyone else thinking about going to BA for the 14nm technology and to try and become a reseller, let this sorry state of affairs be a warning to you, Black Arrow Software are the worst company to work with and are not to be trusted... in fact, anyone with any dealings with Anyone remotely connected to Black arrow or former employees should be treated with suspicion when potential business dealings are being discussed... it could be another Romanian scam front again.

Please post your comments and thoughts to this thread, please also treat this thread as the new black Arrow information exchange where freedom of expression is a universal right, not a manufacturers whim.

Bitcz

the standard Chinese legal position is that there is no "class action suit" as there is in US or UK, however there are provisions for multiple claimants on the same "bill"

Those who've sent me details up to 15th September i have included into my request to BA.

however, i have recently found out and had confirmed from the lawyers that their liability for the company ( not to be confused with legal liability insurance ) has a declared limit of 10k

Now, the main HK signatory is 'ole Alex himself

The main signatory in the UK is 'ole Alex himself and a lady called Cristina... strangely she appears twice on the company house records with firstname then middlename and then surname and then as company secratary as a different named individual using middlename and surname.... so he's been a bit naughty in registering the company.

So,

BA killed my account on the BA forums. Not surprised really, just wondered why it took so long. can't be bothered now to log back in on a different IP as im dealing with the lawyers in HK who now have the banking details and the office details for BA in HK. We also have the delivery originating address as well, i think they aren't that smart to send out from a different address so that's where the HK side of things will start.

Firstly a letter is going out from the Lawyers demanding money refunds
Secondly and im sure they won't respond to the letter, lawyers will launch a debt recovery action on them according the Chinese law.
Thirdly, and this is the part I've asked for video evidence.... when the bailiffs roll up to their address, i will post to YouTube for everyone to see what is being audited and catalogued.

This should be interesting as they can't for sure know what each device is worth, what the components are worth and finally what each ready or partially built system is worth, so i would imagine they will impound the lot and then audit based on market value for disposal ( maybe a chance to re buy back all the stock at a knock down price? )

Anyway, stay tuned for the next thrilling instalment of BTCA ship down !

does anyone have any updated details for the secret location in London ?

yeah i saw.

for the PSU with a CE mark two things are very important to note here

1. BA should have demanded the certification from the supplier confirming they meet spec
2. Chinese law has some very stiff penalties for falsifying certification on products especially if they are found to be root cause in accidents, damages, loss of life or injury.

The fact they didn't and still are trying to get this sorted screams to me they missed this as well as chips popping out and other odds and sods. No Quality control, no proper testing, i paid for 5 days hosting, but i doubt i will get that as well as the miners... i've caused them a fair bit of aggro.. so im sure if i wasn't at the back of the que i sure as rain falls down am now

But i look at it this way... if im gonna spend shed load to get something back.. at leas i get something back and i have the warm fuzzy feeling that they as BA won't do it again under the branding they have right now

No, i haven't mentioned MS or Ethos or anyone else except BA directly. The trouble with a law suit is actually pinning in on someone. BA are the root of all with this, so if MS and Ethos have issues with BA they need to deal with that on their own.

In the US, you need to take it up with the local against MS
In the UK i know about and the distance selling regulations protect consumers here against online orders... but i've never had to do this before, but Ethos is a UK LTD company so poor stuart is liable to cop it big time if you go that route.. i know it's not his fault directly, but he's in it just as much as us really, he took a gamble, it didn't pay off.. so his customer either wait with him, or take action against him. My beef isn't with him or MS i see them as victims also.

Im only concerned at this stage with Direct order customer....

1. direct orders should have received before resellers
2. direct orders should be treated better than resellers
3. direct orders took a larger risk as we ordered directly from China

this is a transcript of my last conversation with Black arrow over on their forum PM system

I complained about them deleting my posts and it went on for a while......

I'm not sure how this is going to look format wise, but im posting from a word doc i've been copying stuff into.. so it might be a bit wonky and there's post quotes so some places its duplicated... but you'll get the drift.





If you do not want people to complain, dont give them things to complain about!
 
As i explained to david, i'm taking you guys down. You stole money from me. period.
 
I am arranging a class action against you and my objective is to stop you from doing this again to anyone else.
 
i've cross posted to another site, so they will see, and the wider community will see.
 
I have 16 years IT infrastructure experience, and manage projects over $400 million and i have never ever in my life come across a bunch of amateurs like you. to my shame i was taken in by your promises, but the delays are unacceptable now .
 
I've asked, like others for a refund, and you illegally withhold the funds against China's laws!
 
Well now you are going to find out what its like on the other side, expect to hear from my Lawyers   
 
I hope you enjoy living in interesting times
blackarrow
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Sent 07 September 2014 - 12:50 PM
Dear Bitcz,
 
If you are our customer, please let me know what your order number is so I can try to help you.
 
Regards!
bitcz
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Sent 08 September 2014 - 10:14 AM
My Order number is #2468
 
If your going to process a refund, explain how your going to do this
blackarrow
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Sent 08 September 2014 - 05:20 PM
Dear Customer,
 
A refund is unavailable due to lack of funds.
We have not stole your money and we have followed the agreed contract.
I can try to ship your order soon (after the PSUs are fixed) if you agree to stop this crusade. Please let me know if you agree.
 
Regards!












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Sent 09 September 2014 - 07:11 AM
No.
Refund on your own or I will obtain via courts. You have no other options now. Refind me fiat or refund me in btc.
I have 102 others customers details and each day I get another 20 or so.. by end of this wekk I will have enough to start. this is just under 1 million usd.... so next step is to pass to my lawyers and let them start contacting the customers and getting the details they need... once they have sufficient grounds to lodge the case.. your done for.
bitcz
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Sent 09 September 2014 - 05:13 PM
http://www.cryptocoi...nts/#post-42223
 
So... how long before this brings a surge of new people to my 'crusade' as you put it ?
 
I think your outgunned, outmassed, out of luck and very soon... out of time
bitcz







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Sent 10 September 2014 - 07:08 AM
If only you could see the spreadsheet ive made to capture all the customers who have contacted me... it makes for easy reading..very informative.. I can even make geo pivot tables to show the courts how many countries are involved. My lawyers are really going to be happy with this as its just made their jobs 1000% easier... such is the power of the internet... bringing the world together

 
Have a nice day
bitcz
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Sent Today, 12:41 PM
So,
 
no reply, no action, pretty much what i expected
 
I am sending my data to the lawyers by end of today 17:30 to be precise. Once they have it, they will proceed and act upon it 
Once i do however, it will be purely down to them to force you in court to refund me my money, as well as the others who have joined the battle against you.
 
Please do not think this is an idle threat   you have limited time now ... in fact it's the last chance you have today to make amends... that stands currently at about 900k USD.. im sure thats going to wipe you out as you have no money in the bank so you'll have to liquidate some BTC to do that... oh.. thats right, Chinese law says you can't process BTC in country so this means you'll have to close down... unles you break the law by processing BTC in china   then your up for double trouble not only for breaking the law, but also the wallet will show transactions which everyone else will see and cause further trouble for you.... i wonder how quickly you can respond when the police arrive at your doors to shut you down.
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 01:07 PM
Dear Customer,
 
Would you like to cancel your order? If yes, we can prepare a form and send it to you to sign.
 
Regards!
 
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Sent Today, 01:13 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 1:07 PM, said:
Dear Customer,
 
Would you like to cancel your order? If yes, we can prepare a form and send it to you to sign.
 
Regards!
 


I would like to cancel my order and get a full refund yes !!!


blackarrow


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Sent Today, 01:22 PM
Have you read the terms and conditions?
 
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 01:26 PM
If English is not your native language, please let me know in what language you need this translated so you can understand:
 
11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.
9.1 The Products are delivered to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
 
 








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Sent Today, 03:01 PM
your terms and conditions do not supersede Chinese law.
 
 
http://www.china-bri...ection-law.html
 
 
Retailers are now required to accept goods for return within 7 days of purchase unless agreed otherwise;   - I have not received goods....
 
For online and other types of delivery purchases, consumers are not required to provide a reason for returns - I have stated my reason which are plain and evident as you have not lived up to your end of the expected delivery date. any court will find i have been more than accommodating
 
Greater restrictions now apply to retailers’ collection and use of consumer data. - you have release personal information to a 3rd party without my consent, or you did not safe guard my details when the information was stolen.. which ever you decide to use when countering.
 
also
 
http://www.lehmanlaw...protection.html
 
You may also choose any of these legal laws in China and read through them, these are what my case against you will be based upon.
 
So please, test me   or refund me, there are only two options at this stage.
you now have 2.5 hours remaining to refund my money
 
bitcz










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Sent Today, 03:11 PM
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 03:13 PM
Dear Customer,
 
Your order was placed and paid months ago. You have been given all the time required to change your mind.
If you proceed with the cancellation, we can accept your already manufactured miner as a gift to us but no refund will be issued.
 
Regards!





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Sent Today, 03:14 PM
Dear Customer,
 
Your order was placed and paid months ago. You have been given all the time required to change your mind.
If you proceed with the cancellation, we can accept your already manufactured miner as a gift to us but no refund will be issued.
 
Regards!
 
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 03:15 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
•   
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:28 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:15 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
 



 
Under Chinese law you cannot sell something and then not deliver. in fact, international law states the same
You have not delivered the miner that i ordered 04 Dec 2013 in fact on your website.. the description has changed since i ordered.... it also states in stock.. clearly not as then people would be getting them whole sale not in dribs and drabs
 
you cannot avoid the painful truth
 
you failed to deliver the goods when i ordered them they were slated for delivery in Feb 2014
http://web.archive.o...ospero-x-3.html
 
you changes to the T & C's after i purchased the goods therefore you new terms and conditions do not apply to me as i did not accept them
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:29 PM
you now have 2 hours
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:33 PM
do you see what's happening here?
 
you wriggle and writhe to get off the hook, but all your doing is wasting your time.
I've paid for a lawyer, so i have nothing to loose... if it costs me £3000 to put you in court... i still get back more than if i let you string me along for the next few months and then some and i put you out of business and force you to close shop.
 
ever been to prison?
 
Chinese law also states anyone who willingly knew of the scam is also guilty... this means anyone who's replied to the forums, all the engineers, the staff and logistics people... maybe even some of your suppliers... who knows...











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Sent Today, 03:41 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:
 
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:15 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
 
 
Under Chinese law you cannot sell something and then not deliver. in fact, international law states the same
You have not delivered the miner that i ordered 04 Dec 2013 in fact on your website.. the description has changed since i ordered.... it also states in stock.. clearly not as then people would be getting them whole sale not in dribs and drabs
 
you cannot avoid the painful truth
 
you failed to deliver the goods when i ordered them they were slated for delivery in Feb 2014
http://web.archive.o...ospero-x-3.html
 
you changes to the T & C's after i purchased the goods therefore you new terms and conditions do not apply to me as i did not accept them
 
 
 
We disagree with your opinion and we believe that our contract will be upheld by any court of law. In order to avoid wasted time on both sides, we ask you to wait few more days until we get the answer from CE for the power supplies and we'll ship your order.
 
We have not  changed the terms and conditions since we opened our store. They were always the same and we have daily backups of the server to prove it.
 
If you take us to court and we win, we will not send you any compensation and we will no longer offer you any exchange for ASICs for your miner as none of these are agreed options in our contract.
 
Should you win the case, there will be no money to get from us as we have none.
 
If you don't want your miner, we think that your best bet is to sell it on eBay.
 
We wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
 
Regards!
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:43 PM
Law of the People's Republic of China on Protection of the Rights and Interests of the Consumers - 1994
 
 
Chapter III Obligations of the Operators
 
Article 16
The operators shall, in providing the consumers with commodities or services, fulfill their obligations in accordance with the provisions of the Product Quality Law of the People's Republic of China and other relevant laws and regulations.
Where there is an agreement between the consumer and the operator, obligations shall be fulfilled according to the agreement, but the agreement of two parties may not violate the provisions of laws and regulations.
 
- chinese law wins
 
 
Article 19
The operators shall provide true to fact information about commodities or services to the consumers and may not make misleading false publicity.
The operators shall make true to fact and clear answers on inquiry of the consumers on the quality and utilization method of the commodities or services provided.
 
- you failed to advise, or communicate when asked by the consumer base
 
 
Article 24
The operators may not make unfair or unreasonable regulations against the consumers in such forms as form contract, notice, statement or shop poster, or diminish or waive their due civil responsibility for infringing the consumers' lawful rights and interests.
 
- chinese law wins again... your recent T&C is not binding to me and you are obliged to refund
 
 
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:49 PM
i don't care about the PSU
I don't care to wait either, but i will wait until 17:30 GMT as that was what i promised... and i keep my promise
 
if i send a copy of this to my lawyer as well, they will then also ask the court to accelerate the case to cater for the fact that you are now trying to coerce me into accepting a situation that should not be.
 
I will urge the lawyers to seek immediate injunction against you enforced by law and force to enter your property and shut you down.
i don't care if your shut down, but i can assure you everything will be seized and sold off
 
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 03:58 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:28 PM, said:
 
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:15 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 3:11 PM, said:
currently you owe me:
 
 
USD 12,003.30 or 25.43 BTC
 
- $50 dollars to cover your stated admin fee
 
USD 11953.30 or  25.33 BTC
 
So either one is fine BTC or FIAT
 
2.4 hours until i submit data to lawyers
 
Correction: Currently we you a miner. If you cancel your order, we will owe you nothing.
You have agreed that no refund will be available in the terms and conditions.
 
 
Under Chinese law you cannot sell something and then not deliver. in fact, international law states the same
You have not delivered the miner that i ordered 04 Dec 2013 in fact on your website.. the description has changed since i ordered.... it also states in stock.. clearly not as then people would be getting them whole sale not in dribs and drabs
 
you cannot avoid the painful truth
 
you failed to deliver the goods when i ordered them they were slated for delivery in Feb 2014
http://web.archive.o...ospero-x-3.html
 
you changes to the T & C's after i purchased the goods therefore you new terms and conditions do not apply to me as i did not accept them
 
 
 
We disagree with your opinion and we believe that our contract will be upheld by any court of law. In order to avoid wasted time on both sides, we ask you to wait few more days until we get the answer from CE for the power supplies and we'll ship your order.
 
We have not  changed the terms and conditions since we opened our store. They were always the same and we have daily backups of the server to prove it.
 
If you take us to court and we win, we will not send you any compensation and we will no longer offer you any exchange for ASICs for your miner as none of these are agreed options in our contract.
 
Should you win the case, there will be no money to get from us as we have none.
 
If you don't want your miner, we think that your best bet is to sell it on eBay.
 
We wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
 
Regards!
 
 
Wow.. i cannot believe you actually do not see the changes.
On your main x-3 sales page.. you have updated it with:
 
>>>> We are still manufacturing this item, it will not be shipped immediately <<<<
NEW, NON-REFUNDABLE
even though it states in stock.
 
Which... is different to the one i ordered from as the web cache proves it as it stated delivery in feb 2014.
 
 
anyone with a gram of sense wouldn't touch a product that says non-refundable and says we're still manufacturing.
Good luck with defending that one. But thanks, that just adds more weight to my case 
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:05 PM
We have never made false publicity nor provided false information. The date supplied was based on our best estimation at that time. We believe that we have informed you very clearly that this is a pre-order, the date is for information purposes only and we will be spending your money to make your order and no refund will be issued. You have read, agreed and signed the contract.
 
Quote
11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.
 
 
The contract was very reasonable and we have merely passed on the contract conditions from our vendors to the customer. Without these conditions, no Foundry and no ASIC designer would have manufactured a chip for us or for you. No Foundry refunds a wafer already started. No engineer or engineering company will refund you for the work that they have already done if it is up to the specifications. We offered you a reasonable interval to cancel your pre-order, and we have kept the customers updated all the time with our progress.  Due to NDA we cannot quote their exact terms but we assure you that they were more harsh than the terms that we have passed onto our customers: Should we cancel the contract we would have had to pay fines for wasting their time.
 
Unfortunately, problems sometime appear during development and we have informed you that this is possible in the terms and conditions as well:
 
Quote
The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
 
 
We would have been negligent if we would not have tried to solve them. Not only that we solved the problems but we have done everything humanly possible to deliver the products as fast as possible, we put in an enormous amount of extra hours during week and weekends. Without this effort you wouldn't have had a miner to receive not even today.
 
 
More than this, you are looking at laws made for goods already in stock, not for pre-orders. We would kindly ask to do a better research on legislation and look for the laws drawn for goods made to order.
 
 
 
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blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:08 PM
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Wow.. i cannot believe you actually do not see the changes.
On your main x-3 sales page.. you have updated it with:
 
>>>> We are still manufacturing this item, it will not be shipped immediately <<<<
NEW, NON-REFUNDABLE
even though it states in stock.
 
Which... is different to the one i ordered from as the web cache proves it as it stated delivery in feb 2014.
 
 
anyone with a gram of sense wouldn't touch a product that says non-refundable and says we're still manufacturing.
Good luck with defending that one. But thanks, that just adds more weight to my case 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
This page is not "terms and conditions". This is a page made for sale of this product and only applies to you if you place a new order.
 
The terms and conditions are here: http://www.blackarro...tore/legal.html. This page was never changed. If it would have been changed the terms and condition published on the date of order would have applied. However, you do not need to worry about that as it has never been changed.
 
 
 
 
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bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:13 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:05 PM, said:
We have never made false publicity nor provided false information. The date supplied was based on our best estimation at that time. We believe that we have informed you very clearly that this is a pre-order, the date is for information purposes only and we will be spending your money to make your order and no refund will be issued. You have read, agreed and signed the contract.
 
Quote
11.3 The Purchaser understands and agrees that we will use his payment in order to purchase the necessary materials or pay workmanship required to fulfill his pre-order which will be non-refundable if cancelled. For this reason, the purchaser hereby gives us the right and agrees with our decision to decline any requests from him or third parties to cancel his pre-order.
 
 
The contract was very reasonable and we have merely passed on the contract conditions from our vendors to the customer. Without these conditions, no Foundry and no ASIC designer would have manufactured a chip for us or for you. No Foundry refunds a wafer already started. No engineer or engineering company will refund you for the work that they have already done if it is up to the specifications. We offered you a reasonable interval to cancel your pre-order, and we have kept the customers updated all the time with our progress.  Due to NDA we cannot quote their exact terms but we assure you that they were more harsh than the terms that we have passed onto our customers: Should we cancel the contract we would have had to pay fines for wasting their time.
 
Unfortunately, problems sometime appear during development and we have informed you that this is possible in the terms and conditions as well:
 
Quote
The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on Us. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.
 
 
We would have been negligent if we would not have tried to solve them. Not only that we solved the problems but we have done everything humanly possible to deliver the products as fast as possible, we put in an enormous amount of extra hours during week and weekends. Without this effort you wouldn't have had a miner to receive not even today.
 
 
More than this, you are looking at laws made for goods already in stock, not for pre-orders. We would kindly ask to do a better research on legislation and look for the laws drawn for goods made to order.
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:17 PM
its not going away... so don't believe that im just going to give up.
 
You owe me money, i will see it back in my hand by your actions or i will see it back in my hands by the courts actions and a lot of your guys in prison as well most likely.
 
PRC does take a dim view of their international image as a economic power.
What your doing is harming that and they will punish those responsible harshly.
 
is my refund worth that?
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Sent Today, 04:23 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
 




 
Yes, it does make a distinction. If your solicitor informed you that it doesn't do a distinction, you should find a better one as they're only up to get your money.
 
You mention 3000GBP to take us to court. I'm not sure how you got these numbers as an injunction should cost you more than $10 million dollars due to the size of our business.
 
A reasonable delay is as long as it is reasonable. If we went into holiday or started another project it would not have been reasonable. We worked all the time on this project and the delay is fully justified.
 
The delivery is in sight and would have been already completed if not of the problems with the power supplies. If you don't want the PSU we can ship you on Monday.
 
And now you go on with selling dangerous goods which is way offtopic. Here is a link to help you understand what these are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dangerous+goods
 
This is my last reply today. Good day.
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Sent Today, 04:28 PM
Here's what will happen...
 
 
What i will be doing is my normal daily life... i will visit a McDonalds when i choose, i will got to a pub with friends, i will come home in the evening and play xbox or watch some TV, and still have money in my pocket and my freedom
 
All i have to do is pay the lawyers... which i can as it's really cheap to do
 
What you will be doing is working long hours looking over your shoulder.. wondering is that knock on the door the police or a delivery or both?
when the knock comes you'll walk to the door with a sense of fear as you need the job to pay for your life over there... there is no comparison between us, so i won't try, but you will wonder when an official puts papers in your hand to search the property with police to take names, and addresses, and maybe take you to police stations to be interviewed is this what Bitcz was warning me about?
Even been in a police cell? i understand its better than a bangkok cell, but not by much.
 
Everything in the office will be tagged and recorded, lawyers will get fat and rich, but ill get my money plus legal fee's reimbursed from the proceeds of the auctions of the stock.
 
You will be out of a job and your colleges will be out of a job and once the witch hunt starts it get serious.
charges are brought against you and anyone who's senior.. then they work their way downwards... to the little guys... and maybe.. just maybe.. the guy who sweeps up at the end of the shifts gets away with just a warning as he locks up an empty office stripped of everything...
 
then a few weeks later, i get a letter from my lawyers telling me the final account, how much i owe them, how much was recovered, we work out and deduct this and that and then say good bye.
 
 
 
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Sent Today, 04:33 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:28 PM, said:
Here's what will happen...
 
 
 
Here is what will really happen:
 
You will pay the solicitors and you'll never see that money back.
 
You will receive your miner in the following days (not because you have paid your solicitor). If you choose not to accept it, we will inform DHL that we don't want it back as it is yours and your refusal means that they can destroy it.
 
The end.
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Sent Today, 04:35 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:23 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
 
 
Yes, it does make a distinction. If your solicitor informed you that it doesn't do a distinction, you should find a better one as they're only up to get your money.
 
You mention 3000GBP to take us to court. I'm not sure how you got these numbers as an injunction should cost you more than $10 million dollars due to the size of our business.
 
A reasonable delay is as long as it is reasonable. If we went into holiday or started another project it would not have been reasonable. We worked all the time on this project and the delay is fully justified.
 
The delivery is in sight and would have been already completed if not of the problems with the power supplies. If you don't want the PSU we can ship you on Monday.
 
And now you go on with selling dangerous goods which is way offtopic. Here is a link to help you understand what these are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dangerous+goods
 
This is my last reply today. Good day.
 
 
oh really 
this should be a laugh... your probably talking about our version of public liability insurance which normally covers business for death and injury and wotnot on site or under the companies direction.
 
this doesn't absolve you of wrong doing in the eyes of the law 
You have committed offences against the PRC, so once they are brought to light, nothing i can do will stop it. in the uk i could halt a lawyer right up to the point when they open their mouth and speak to the judge 
 
In PRC courts, laws are less about equality and more about what the PRC wants. Granted they have relaxed over the years and are almost humane... almost.
 
If you ship the units to me they will be rejected
if you deny my rights under the PRC consumer laws you shall be prosecuted.. not just by me, but over 100 others... at the same time...
The consumer council provides us the rights to go after you in a class action status 
 
many of us have already applied and gotten confirmation from them, including myself, that they are investigating you. Ignore them.. please do as it just gives me more to work with.
 
55 minutes








bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:40 PM
blackarrow, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:23 PM, said:
 
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:
 
Chinese law makes no distinction between pre-order and in stock goods or services 
 
i ordered from you, not the foundry, not the case manufacturer nor the PSU company, I ordered from you Black Arrow
 
So my sales contract is with you. I paid you money for a device to be delivered in Feb 2014.. i could accept as reasonable 1 or 2 months, even three any court would agree that's more than reasonable...but 7 months !!!!! and still no end in sight?
 
And selling dangerous goods as well... the legal implications on that are pretty clear.. you might get away with " we didn't know they were dangerous" and the court might believe you, but BA as a company... will be closed down by the courts as you are not only scamming and not informing the consumer base when asked for simple bits of information, but also with holding unfairly money in the form of BTC that can be used to refund. that will be lost to the courts.. so i doubt it will see the light of day... but the goods and assets will be stripped and sold to pay your debts.
 
1 hour 15 mins left
 
 
Yes, it does make a distinction. If your solicitor informed you that it doesn't do a distinction, you should find a better one as they're only up to get your money.
 
You mention 3000GBP to take us to court. I'm not sure how you got these numbers as an injunction should cost you more than $10 million dollars due to the size of our business.
 
A reasonable delay is as long as it is reasonable. If we went into holiday or started another project it would not have been reasonable. We worked all the time on this project and the delay is fully justified.
 
The delivery is in sight and would have been already completed if not of the problems with the power supplies. If you don't want the PSU we can ship you on Monday.
 
And now you go on with selling dangerous goods which is way offtopic. Here is a link to help you understand what these are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dangerous+goods
 
This is my last reply today. Good day.
 
 
2000 hkd is 158 GBP per hour
 
i spend 200 an hour on a hooker for a day and a night and consider myself well serviced for my birthday.
 
guess how many hours £3000 buys me with my lawyer ?
 
and that's just me 


bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:40 PM
50 minutes
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:41 PM
This conversation is over.
 
bitcz
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Sent Today, 04:44 PM
ill make it easy for you
 
send me my money in BTC to this address
 
1Ptfqodtgq2Y81fWUQgaNVBysWCpJA8B4p
 
then i stop, i delete my account here, i deleted my account everywhere and you never hear from me again.
I will disappear and not even crow in the forums....
 
fail at this last opportunity and the next few weeks are going to be very very tense for you.. listening for footsteps... squeal of brakes.. is that the police pulling up outside??
 
 
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Sent Today, 04:49 PM
Oh and Alex is in Reading... been some talk about that on the forum... might have to get my local consumer council to look into alex and his address.. maybe get an interview.... if he's not there or its false... the LTD nature of the company is then called into question... more petrol on the fire... courts dissolve the company... but they can only do this once   
 
wonder what the penalty is for falsifying company trading information in PRC ?
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Sent Today, 04:49 PM
40 minutes
blackarrow
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Sent Today, 04:50 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 4:49 PM, said:
Oh and Alex is in Reading... been some talk about that on the forum... might have to get my local consumer council to look into alex and his address.. maybe get an interview.... if he's not there or its false... the LTD nature of the company is then called into question... more petrol on the fire... courts dissolve the company... but they can only do this once 
 
wonder what the penalty is for falsifying company trading information in PRC ?
 
We have your address. Maybe Alex will pay you a visit and go to the Police station with you.
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Sent Today, 04:56 PM
If he doesn't pay you a visit, please visit our stand in London: http://insidebitcoins.co.uk/
 

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Sent Today, 05:01 PM
yes please.. i would love that.., we can both go to the local police station in Bromley or Orpington and sit and have a chat with an office from the serious crimes unit. I am absolutely sure they would enjoy the chat and offer us both a tea 
 
debatable which of us would leave the station though?
 
Naah.. no debate... i would, he might after a period of time... as i gather he's also under a warrant for fraud??? Might be interesting to find out how long it takes them to discover who wants him and why... i'd bet no more than an hour.
 
Want to give him my mobile number?  we can arrange a meet at the station and walk in together as friends....
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Sent Today, 05:03 PM
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blackarrow
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Sent Today, 05:07 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 5:01 PM, said:
yes please.. i would love that.., we can both go to the local police station in Bromley or Orpington and sit and have a chat with an office from the serious crimes unit. I am absolutely sure they would enjoy the chat and offer us both a tea 
 
debatable which of us would leave the station though?
 
Naah.. no debate... i would, he might after a period of time... as i gather he's also under a warrant for fraud??? Might be interesting to find out how long it takes them to discover who wants him and why... i'd bet no more than an hour.
 
Want to give him my mobile number?  we can arrange a meet at the station and walk in together as friends....
 
Yes, please let me know your mobile number I will forward it to him.
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Sent Today, 05:08 PM
Xxxxxxxxx – Number given but withheld from this post
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Sent Today, 05:09 PM
is he in the uk now ?
cos i'd love to talk 
 
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Sent Today, 05:13 PM
bitcz, on 12 Sept 2014 - 5:09 PM, said:
is he in the uk now ?
cos i'd love to talk 
 
22 minutes left
 
Not now. He'll be tomorrow.
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Sent Today, 05:16 PM
i look forward to it
 
however 15 minutes and i send the data
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Sent Today, 05:24 PM
6 minutes


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Sent Today, 05:32 PM
Submitted
 
See you in court!!
 
well.. i won't personally ( but wish i could ) but hey... smile... your going to make a very brief historical footnote in the bitcoin history books

well.. in 11 minutes i submit data to the lawyers....

i've been having a nice conversation with BA on PM on the other forum and they've wriggled and tried to get out of it....

i've been counting down the time till i submit.. must be driving them bonkers... trying to get a resolution.. but they refuse.. as i expected.


The data i have now... will go to the lawyers who will take god knows how long to go over it.... then they will either email listee's individually or maybe if they are smart, put up a web page that you can visit to submit your final data by or they speak to you directly and ask for telephone numbers copies of invoices etc....i just don't know at this stage... it's not like i've been putting a battle plan together

I had thought about taking a trip up there myself, but even so, it just might be a registered address and not actually a residential address.

And please, im not getting defensive, i'm just laying out what i see as i see it.

But as i said before, i would gladly take the opportunity to prove to someone who's a bit more local to me, hell, I'll even bring passport, utility bills and receipts from my local Morrison if you like plus i have a south London accent, not a east European one.. but as i said, im doing this to recover from BA, at my expense so far so anyone who comes along for the ride, you bolster my case and you get yours added to it.
If you think i'm a BA shill.. then don't join in. I'll still be using my lawyers to try and force a recovery on BA.

If its correct and they don't have any money in the bank and i get a court order to recover the funds... what will happen?

I'm my experience, if you can't pay your goods are confiscated and sold off to meet your debt. What is that going to mean for all the miners in stock, all the boards all the cases all the chips all the PSU and everything in their building ? They are confiscated to pay their debt. Now maybe China has a different way of handling this sort of thing, and from a totally mercenary point of view, i shouldn't be concerned with others, i should only be concerned with my money they owe me. However, as it serves me, it should serve everyone, but recovery of debts owed to large numbers of people can only be discharged to those named on the legal action.. in the UK anyway... how it works in china.. i don't know... but it's soon to be found out what the process is exactly.

On the other hand, i could have just kept quiet and proceeded with the case to get my money back and not say anything to anyone and all anyone else would know would be that BA would roll up and die and EVERYONE looses , hell you might not even get notification that they've gone down... they don't answer the telephones anyway.

So from my point of view, im trying to be accommodating, im trying to do something for our community... i can lead the horse, but can't force it to drink i think works here.

Why would a London location arouse suspicion? over Birmingham or Luton for example?
I live in kent so i'm in london everyday so it makes sense to meet with some folks who are able to meet in London who are affected by this.

Something that Pentax mentioned to me to clear up...

I'm not affiliated with BA. Just want to make that clear. Although you might not believe it.. with just cause or just plain suspicion.. that's ok!

Anything i write here or on the oher forum you have all the right to treat as fake until proven otherwise.... but how can i do this?

Anything i write can be faked.
Anything i post to prove can be fake.
My actions can be seen as being working for some ulterior motive for BA for some punitive actions against anyone foolish enough to sign up.

So, i call for a spokes person to step forward and talk to me offline so i can verify who i am so i can prove to others. If Pentax was to speak to me in person, would you take his word for it? If Jumbly was to speak to me in person would you take his word for it?
If not, how can i prove i am who i say i am and my case is just ?

I'd don't have anything to prove here, im starting this legal action for my own self first off, but when i was thinking about it, it makes more sense to use weight of numbers to force them to do what needs doing.

It's your choice to join or not.
I've already sunk in £500 in legal fees to get this rolling not that you'd believe what i say and to be honest, i don't give a fig either way if you want to call me out or not, those who join in will be included in any case against BA. Anyone who doesn't well.. you either join someone else, go it alone, or pray BA does the right thing. Just remember Lawyers are expensive and they charge by the hour once my time is used up ill add some more funds to pay for extra time, it would be good if some more can be donated to it, but i'm not out right asking for anything, so i'm not trying to scam anyone.  The hourly charge is just over $2000 HKD which is about £158 GBP ... hence why i'm doing a lot of the grunt work first to make sure the lawyers aren't using those hours in gathering and making sense of the data... your data... and even then im asking for non specific information.

And just for the record... this is only for Direct orders to BA for Batch 1 & 2 of the X1 and X3 models of miners.

Bitcz