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Hi, today exactly this idea crossed my mind, google it and found this thread. Following it now to see if it goes somewhere.
I haven't given to much though to it, but it seems to me that we are approaching the time when this might start to have sense. Initially I don't think that such a party would win any election, but it would start a conversation and use the current system against itself. Other approach that makes sense is to fund existing politicians that wish to legalize crypto in any country.
Imagine for example a fund for this, managed by a smart contract that allows any politician to request money from the fund with a concrete proposal, and after approval by the funds (DAO) stakeholders, the funds can be gradually released each time a milestone in the proposed road-map is reached.
Cheers!
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I've tried to promote this my miner friends but the complication of mining license made them turn down his offer,he thinks it limited is to those privilege ones something of a politics involve here,there were a lot of better coin to mine and usually dev's wants people to mine his coin,not the other way around.
The Licencing Scheme for mining is a way to prevent centralization as in bitcoin. Take a look at this: https://medium.com/@luisfernandomolina/bitcoin-was-not-hacked-but-gamed-ab67020e0b74#.7zwrq1bv3It is not about convinience for devs or about politics. If anybody can mine in any amount, you end up with all the mining in the hands of a few, instead spread across the users of the system as Satoshi expected. |
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Q:Perhaps we not misunderstand each other. But it is not my fault. You have chapters in Russia but it does not do anything (however as well as all your chapters). He did not answer one of my questions. Everything that it does, it sells the coins at the exchange. A:I think so also, for you to understand what role i play in all this. I Joined in early Oktober this year when all this Chapter Concept started, was the first and built Swiss Chapter together with Amadeo, testing and was the one that set the standards for other Chapters to follow (social media, POA, involvement). Chapter governance system is something never done before, you cant expect Chapter network model to be running perfectly this early. i can tell you didn't do any research and i don't have time to take you by your hand and guide you. i recommend you start reading here. Q:Probably, they should leave a weak point, and will go to a forum to give answers to people. A:? Answer to these questions step by step: 1. Q:The limited number of people is engaged in production now. About 40 people. Correctly? A:I guess by production you mean mining? i think more than 40 ppl are mining, since some chapters have more than one member. How many exactly, go check spreadsheet and count them yourself i will not do it for you. In github there are in total 76 contributors to the code since beginning.. 2. Q:Now, it is available 2112258 IOP as you told. From where this quantity of coins undertook? A:10% premine=2,100,000 IoP, rest is/has being mined by Chapters 3. Q:Who possesses these coins? A:Who possesses premine IoP you mean? it's all documented, if you want to review it ask Luis for access to spreadsheet. The rest is being fairly distributed in form of Mining and POA (Proof of Action). read Chapters 4. Q:You want to tell that investors bought 2112258 IOP? A:Premine was 10% means 2,100,000 IoP, how many was bought and at what rate and what was distributed is something you can see on that document. ask Luis for access. 5. Q:You say that they bought them on 12 dollars? It means that you have 24 million dollars now? A:contributors, developers, bug bounties were paid out in form of IoP at $12 convert value. means they received IoP tokens in converted value of 1IoP=12$ for various tasks. What investors paid, ask Luis. 6. Q:If it not so, then tell what exact quantity of coins was bought by investors? And how many at you is dollars? A:ask Luis or marmai per PM. i don't have this information. Facit: i can understand your concerns, still you need to understand that Fermat project is not dependent on your investment and nobody asked you to invest or buy. only thing you all are kindly asked is to join and create decentralized Chapter network of trusted full nodes necessary for further evaluation and success of this project. you are even being incentivized by joining this early..  Thanks for your answers, is a pity that the Russian Chapter, not also well works as you. There are some guarantees that 10% of premine (this 2100000 IoP) cannot be brought to market any minute? You have to understand my concern, and looking at your rank you have to remember 1001 cases when it happened to different coins. Not all people are honest, unfortunately. Therefore, the community has to know this information to be sure. Hi, sorry for seeing this a little bit late. Anyway my two cents: I started Fermat more than 2 years ago. By that time there was already a lot of noise in this industry and scams everywhere. I decided first to build something and later raise funds, in contrast with so many other projects doing just the opposite. During the first 6 months I worked full time on this, with the help of some friends from the time I was doing banking systems. During this first phase I counted the hours spent by these people in order to compensate them in the future. These were the very early investors. During the next months I searched for an angel investor willing to finance a year of development. By that time only the vision and the architecture and design of the solution was there, nothing else. The investor bought a first set of "imaginary" tokens at 0.29 cents each. She invested $200,000. We didn't have a blockchain by that time and we didn't have plans to implemented in the short term neither. The money was better invested on building the components of future person to person apps and learning if such apps were feasible. I organized then a programming competition and during 2 months I selected the best Java programmers in Argentina, my home country. The prize was to come to Budapest where I live, to build the core of the system during the summer, plus accommodation, flight tickets, a laptop and a monthly payment. Although the competition targeted Argentinian devs, the word spread throughout Latin Amarica and people from different countries participated. In the final selection there were 4devs from Argentina and 2 from Venezuela. All of them arrived to Budapest on time and we starting developing with this initial team in Jun 2015. We had a great time there and a lot of fun anecdotes beyond the coding. (Maybe someday I will write about them). When I was about to pay these guys, I offered them to reinvest their "salaries" into the project tokens, and to my surprise each and everyone of them wanted to reinvest. Perhaps because they already had accommodation or maybe they truly liked the project. After some months I saw that the budget was not being spent as expected since they were choosing the tokens and not the dollars. As the tokens were not in the market, since they didn't even existed, we had to figure out which would be a fair price for them. We expected to have in 6 months a prototype, so if we were a startup that would mean being ready for a seed round. At that time there was a site tracking all investment in crypto currency startups, and from there, after some analysis you could estimate that the valuation range at which a seed round was raised in this industry. The range was between 6M and 12M. So we imagined that by the time we had that prototype ready our valuation should be at least 6M, the lower part of the range. So we arbitrarily increased the price of the imaginary token month over month until reaching the price equivalent to a 6M valuation by the end of 1015. At the same time, since the budget was largely unspent and the project quite complex,we thought that there might be more devs, designers and testers that would like to join with a similar deal, meaning reinvesting a large amount of their compensation. People in Venezuela motivated by these 2 first members where in a special good condition to do that, because of the situation in their county they could live with extremely little cash (in dollars terms) and reinvest all the rest. So the project quickly grew in numbers of contributors by word of mouth throughout Latin America, specially inside Venezuela. At a peak time there were more that 100 people contributing, a third of them devs, another thirds designers, and the rest testers, entrepreneurs and others. With those numbers the $200,000 were being used fast and a lot of tokens were being distributed among all this people. The angel investor at the end of 2015 with a friend of her decided to take another round, this time of $450,000 at a price between 2 and 3 USD per token. (still imaginary). During 2016 we all agree to continue increasing the token price to reflect the work added to the project by all these people, and everyone was happy to reinvest their compensation at each months price. During summer 2016, the proof of concept was finished and we were ready to start production quality code, no more prototyping. By that time we also stopped issuing more imaginary tokens, since we needed to stop to close the accounting and prepare the distribution of the real tokens, now at the blockchain. A professional senior team of devs were hired for that by the end of the summer and we started working on the components of the Internet of People. This is a smaller team, with one dev in UK, 2 in Hungary, 2 in Argentina and 1 in Estonia. We finally implemented our token blockchain at the end of 2016 summer, and on top of it our first version of the mining by licenses and mining cap. Also the governance functionality for voting for projects to be paid by the blockchain is in testing by now. The IoP Profile Server (the main component of the internet of people) will enter alpha before the end of the year, together with the geolocated p2p network and the content address network. Once the blockchain was ready, all the imaginary tokens were distributed. Before that we realized that we issued to many tokens, like 17% of the total supply, so we decided to scale it back to 10% multiplying all tokens held by anyone with a factor of 0.5 something, just to make them all fit within 10% that is something currently accepted by the industry. On top of that we didn't want dumpers on the market so we figure it out how to use the quite new bitcoin functionality of time-locking some percentage of the tokens. We decided that 25% of everyones tokens would be frozen in 6 months, 1,2,3,4 and 5 years in some cases. That would make dumping and crashing the market stupid since everyone has tokens time-locked. 10 days ago we entered the first exchange, and of the 2.1 M premined tokens only a few thousands are being sold. That is because most of the token holders don't want to sell and wont do it because they are here for the long run. Specially big token holders. The only tokens around available are the ones of some of these Venezuelan people that unfortunately they fight everyday to put food on the table. We have great plans to grow, plenty of good and original ideas. This month our voting system, similar to the one of Dash will be ready and that will enable us to do many things, like for example start a PR campaign. To be honest we are not focus right now on the token price or market, we are mainly building our components and also building our community. If you are a dev, you might enjoy visiting our github repos and see what we are doing there. If you are not, talk to Markus to see how you can join the community. https://github.com/fermat-orgI have written several posts in medium explaining in plain English what we are doing and why. Here is a link you can follow to find my posts there: https://medium.com/search?q=luis%20fernando%20molinaalso, here is a link to the spreadsheet we used to track the imaginary tokens while the blockchain was not ready: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fx29tzswHQN7YPjsFwlTnOyGZzY-sWUTA71URzmueug/edit?usp=sharingA few weeks ago we were all happy to be listed by coinmarket cap, just to quickly learn that the value at Available Supply was wrong. We tweeted them, filled their change form several times, communicate with them over email, and still we can not get that figure corrected. We understand that our available supply are the pre-mined tokens minus 25% of the pre-mined time locked plus the 13,000 tokens mined so far. They refused so far to change that figure stating that only 13,000 are available. That impacts in our market cap calculation effectively discriminating us, since with such a number our market cap is ridiculously low. We hope to make them understand their mistake. Their argument is that tokens held by devs and investors are not part of the available supply. This is ridiculous since any of these can trade them anytime, except the ones time locked. They didn't subtracted all the tokens held by Satoshi on the case of bitcoins. The previous is an extremely condensed history of the project so far. Unless you go to github, you would not be able to see the hundred of thousands of hours invested by people in this project. It is easy to come and dismiss our work as a scam after spending 5 minutes on it. I understand it only in the context of so many scam in this industry. We had our fair share of scammers inside the project doing quite a lot of harm. But reality is that we are doing a good job based on what we believe in. Fermat doesn't need to do ICO or sell more tokens, or convince anyone to go and buy them. We are fine building our system, people is already coming to us and joining. We just listed our token in the market and people that can understand what we are doing are going to by them. That is good enough for us at this stage. You can ask me any further question, I am checking this thread from time to time. And if you finally like our vision, consider joining us, after all this story is just begining. Luis |
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Hello BitcoinTalk community, After signing up more than 40 chapters worldwide, we are almost ready to start the project that will help us manage the influx of people / chapters / miners and scale it up. This new project is analized at this document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BOB3Xc5vHNKBNZJeosXGi0iNCxiD6rbFTvbF1uXfv10/edit#You are free to check it out and express yourself with comments of even suggestions to the text. The Chapter App that will be produced by this project will allow the Fermat community to self-manage their chapters, chapter members and licenses. Also it will remove the concept of administrator approving individual licenses, transforming it on a Peer-to-Peer Community. While we build this infrastructure, we will continue with the Google Spreadsheet welcoming only Country Chapters from all over the world and US States. Once the Chapter APP is ready we will be able to manage any country states as well. Looking fordward for your feedback! Cheers! Luis |
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Just curious will the mining cap effect the network hashrate in a negative way, as people reach the cap just shut off miners?
Yes, it does affect the hashrate since miners stop mining once they reach the mining cap, but at this stage that doesn't have any negative impact. You need huge hashrate to secure the network when anyone is allowed to mine, in order to prevent a huge hashrate holder to highjack your blockchain and fork it as will. IoP in its current stage is not open for anyone to mine, so it doesn't rely on huge hashrate to keep the network secure. As time goes on and the chapter network is fully built, mining will be opened to anyone. But even anonymous miners wont be able to attack the network with hashrate at that stage either, since there will be by that time a PoS / PoW hybrid which will prevent a single entity to mine two blocks in a row, meaning that they can never mine outside and later produce a fort of several blocks. In short, hashrate is only important in pure PoW blockchains. When other mechanisms are added they lose relevance, in some cases like ours, a lot. You can learn more about the chapter network we are building here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BOB3Xc5vHNKBNZJeosXGi0iNCxiD6rbFTvbF1uXfv10/edit#And about our ideas of an hybrid PoS / PoW here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fwXOCfX0zfJv-MloeVAsVjS_JEpfdIXHUObMBijLrJ8/edit# |
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Interesting concept but it's still not really clear, how you would secure the network with only one miner per country as example?
It is not one miner per country. This is just the current phase. Right now we are building this chapter network as the backbone of the mining network. Once we have a highly distributed backbone with engaged people, the mining will be open to anyone to participate anonymously. In that way bad actors will be outnumbered by chapter miners. I understand it is difficult to understand if you don't know the full plan. To learn more about this plan I recommend you to read this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BOB3Xc5vHNKBNZJeosXGi0iNCxiD6rbFTvbF1uXfv10/edit#heading=h.ri2zjtfdb7g2 |
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Hello thread community, thanks for you interest and welcome to the Fermat project. I would like to address some doubts about the project and answer a few questions about what we are doing and why. First, it is not possible to understand Fermat without taking the time to real a little bit about it. A good starting point is: https://medium.com/@luisfernandomolina/why-is-the-person-to-person-economy-the-last-disruptive-curve-d002e58d7c2d#.onuy8ds39If you read that, you will learn the Fermat is not about a coin, or a bitcoin clone or a crypto currency. The coin is something that is needed to reach a more important goal: Connecting end user devices to each other without anyone in the middle, not even a p2p network. Why do we want this? Because then we can have Person to Person apps with extreme desintermediation. Why do we need "extreme desintermedation"? Because is the way to: * do business in the most efficient way for the parties involved, no middlemen takes any cut on any transaction. The value of transactions stay at the parties involved, nowhere else. * data is at your own device, not the cloud, not p2p storage, it is at your own device, the most secure place it can be. * communication is very hard to be compromised. All the rest, it is about how we get there. The Internet of People, this set of p2p networks that facilitate device to device connections needs nodes operators to be incentivized. That is the reason of the IoP token. We decided to use the strenghts of bitcoin (by forking) and use our own ideas of how to fix some of its problems: PROBLEM: Centralization of mining, and power in a few hands. SOLUTION: Mining done by regional local chapters with a cap on the mining. PROBLEM: Governance into the hands of a few devs or biased companies. SOLUTION: DASH like voting for proposal system paid by the blockchain. Think about it, if mining is done by a network of local chapters and that is the rule, then it is impossible to centralize, since noone can invent new countries to get more licenses. By being on every country the system is more resilient as no single government can shut it down. The mining cap is needed to prevent an arms race and allow people to mine with a regular pc, in the end the vision of Satoshi himself. The scope and complexity of Fermat is not for everyone. I understand if you can not get it. After all is the result of more that 2 years of work. But by being here in this thread somehow you are witnessing the starting of a revolution. It is up to you to now to join it and change the word. Hopes this helps! Cheers! |
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All logos will be ready soon, including Ukraine. If it is not there already it will be in a few days. Regarding disk space, don't worry for that now. Start with your chapter, get involved and all the other answers will come along the way. |
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Guys i want to ask a bit How to mining ? I see my country is listed on spreadsheet..I Want to join
Maybe this can help: https://medium.com/@luisfernandomolina/iop-mining-7b1c1bf7febdAlso, if your country is already listed, just contact the listed responsible there so as to join the chapter. There are several tasks to do in a chapter that can award you a license. Almost no chapter is doing them all so there is still space for more people. Cheers! |
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mining pool?
Hi, we believe in decentralization and regarding mining, we will implement every idea that leads to decentralized mining. Having said that, currently we are at a very early stage. Our mining is still not permission-less (only community members mine at this stage). Also the mining is capped, meaning that no one can mine more than 3 times than the average. These measures are provisional until we implement our own PoS / PoW hybrid. By then mining will be permision-less and hopefully decentralized. Cheers! |
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I just want to pop in and say i am also part of the Fermat project and running Swiss Local Chapter for Fermat like many others. Fermat is constantly growing, has 70+ devs working on the backend and at the moment more Chapters are Joining. You all have great opportunity now to join. For more information read documents or pm me.
Hi trader19, I just want to clarify that there are not 70+ developers working right now. That might be a the amount of devs that have contributed so far during the first two years. Cheers! yes, true  thanks for heads up. there was somewhere a cool github video about fermat, do you have that one somewhere Luis? https://github.com/Fermat-ORGEDIT: whoaaaaa with this POST i became LEGENDARY MEMBER YEEEESSSSS!  I think you are talking about this one: https://youtu.be/Eab3jPNsnIY |
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I've added you "lord skull" even on skype mate! ;-)
Thanks mate for your time and help, everything is running sweet and will be involve , the concept is impressive and step above!! Happy to hear that you like it! |
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I just want to pop in and say i am also part of the Fermat project and running Swiss Local Chapter for Fermat like many others. Fermat is constantly growing, has 70+ devs working on the backend and at the moment more Chapters are Joining. You all have great opportunity now to join. For more information read documents or pm me.
Hi trader19, I just want to clarify that there are not 70+ developers working right now. That might be a the amount of devs that have contributed so far during the first two years. Cheers! |
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Why u dont use checked blockchain like lisk?
Fermat use own blockchain which is BTC fork. I think reason is decentralization and freedom. You are right. We pursue decentralization and we have some ideas of how to get there. |
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Anyway, I still don't see any appeal to this project.
Unless you read carefully the white paper you won't see it. I bet you didn't do it. Fortunately a lot of people did and now our main github repo ranks among most active open source projects. https://github.com/Fermat-ORG/fermat...and surely calling bitcoin disruptive is not going to get you a lot of sympathy and support here.
From Wikipedia: A disruptive innovation is an innovation that creates a new market and value network and eventually disrupts an existing market and value network, displacing established market leaders and alliances. The term was defined and phenomenon analyzed by Clayton M. Christensen beginning in 1995. I am not sure why you have a negative connotation of the word "disruptive" in this context. |
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Why newbie account?You new here?  The account is some years old, but the project was under the radar so no need to post about it before now. |
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mining or ico?
i think it will be for sure ICO mining or ico?
i think it will be for sure ICO mining or ico?
Those kind of project definitely will do ico but i suggest to dev to make this one different by considering special airdrop Our coins will be mineable as soon as we get ready for that. Bear in mind our focus is to build a framework for developing mobile apps. We do need a token system and a blockchain but we invested most of our time on the framework, so it is not ready yet. There are no plans so far of an ICO, just build an open market for anyone to buy and sell. Early contributors are getting tokens as bounty rewards. Everyone is invited to participate on any of the open projects and get early contributors tokens. Summary of Open Projects you can join now: 1. Fermat p2p Network (version 1 on alpha) 2. Fermat Framework (version 1 on alpha) 3. Fermat Android Framework (version 1 running) 4. Fermat Blockchain / token system (analysis stage) 5. Fermat Home Nodes micro-economy (to be opened soon) 6. Fermat Developers micro-economy (to be opened soon) 7. Crypto Currency Platform (bitcoin wallet) (version 2 on alpha) 8. Digital Assets Platform (version 1 on alpha) 9. Crypto Broken Platform (version 1 on alpha) 10. Artist Platform (version 1 on alpha) 11. p2p Chat (version 2 on alpha) 12. p2p Online Dating Platform (analysis stage) 13. p2p Taxi Platform (analysis stage) 14. p2p Jobs (analysis stage) 15. p2p Clasiffieds (analysis stage) |
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Fermat project is super cool. Luis showed me the platform preview some time ago and it looked solid. Keep an eye on Fermat, or better, participate in it!
Regards,
Sergio.
Thank you for the support Sergio! |
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