It's deterred me from investing money into the bitcoin/crypto currency economy (not that I have much to invest anyway...).  Mostly because you can tell a majority of the chatroom users are kids and/or people who know virtually nothing about investing/finances.  I'm def not an experienced investor...  But I'm friends with a banker and we talk about finances a lot, and I read a book or two on it, so I atleast know some of the financial lingo.  I'm so sick of people screaming "crash!!" for every little dip in the market.  ...And how they think a 5 month investment as long term >.< (Is that even considered short term??); that's pretty annoying too.

And what's with that chicken crap??

I have a little over .15 btc with bitclockers that I'd like to transfer over to MtGox.  But whenever I try to withdraw, it says there's an error and I should try again later.  I been trying for about 3 months and I still get this error.  I've tried a different address and lower quantites,  but I can't get the BTC.

Anyone got anything?

Btw I asked here instead of bitclockers' forums because I couldn't pass the image verification (I don't think there were even letters on that thing...)  And the audio didn't play any sound (to hear the letters)

@ BeetcoinScummer
In what way is it artificially constrained?  My goal is to try to determine a method for getting most hashs per watt, in a proportionate matter--as in, a GPU that mines 100 Mhashs for 80 watts would be more desirable than a GPU that puts out 200 Mhashs for 170 watts.

Same applies for motherboards.  A mother board that has 4 pcie slots and consumes 50 watts, would be more desirable than a mother board that consumes 30 watts, but has only 2 pcie slots.  (fewer GPUs per system)

Coincidentally a system that'd perform well with bitcoin would do great for most everything else I'd use it for--which is why I don't want to invest in ASICs.  If you're talking about not considering ASICs as being constraining, then yea you're right...  it is constrained

EDIT: I want to take it to the extreme and find ways to squeeze-out even more efficiency.  Like taking mobos that draw low current and finding ways to make them draw even less

@ Everyone
I made this topic as a theoretical project to proportionately crank-out as much processing power as possible, with minimal energy consumption.  ...Taking into consideration long-term operation costs (ie energy bill), and not necessarily building a disposable computer exclusive for mining.  I guess it's easier to understand what I mean if you think of it like "because we can".

The reason I say theoretical is because I only have my one desktop to play with, and can't try some of the stuff mentioned in this thread.

No; what made you think that?


@ deepceleron
Won't undervolting the GPU core proportionately reduce mhash output per watt?  If true I don't see much point in it (assuming it needs to be underclocked).

Anyway, I found undervolting the CPU, RAM, NB & SB to be quite effective.  I've gone from 145 watts to 53 watts (both measurements are when mining).  I'm getting the same hash rate while consuming 273% less energy--or saving about $10 per month (theoretically >$20 because the AC has to spend more than that to remove waste heat from the room).  And I've yet to disable on-board devices. ...though I'm not expecting to go much lower than 53 watts--heck the GPU alone is supposed to be 50 watts (says the manufacturer).


If you use appropriate components there's no reason you can't run on batteries, inverter-free.  You didn't think I meant plugging the PSU or something directly into a battery did you? 

Here's something pre-made if you don't believe me: http://www.short-circuit.com/product/M2-ATX-HV.html  ...Not exactly best suited for this discussion but still proves it's possible.

...And the reason I want to squeeze every watt out of the computers is because it's part of what I desire from the project   Less energy consumed means smaller/cheaper solar panels and batteries. 

Think of it this way... Say we've got a cluster of 10 computers.  let's pretend my results are typical and all of those computers' consumption can be reduced by ~92 watts.  That'd be cutting 920 watts.  In a world where thermal dynamics loves us, we'd spend that again for the AC to remove the waste heat from the room.  By cutting each PC by 92 watts, it'd essentially be cutting total consumption by 1 840 watts--or saving about $198 (at $0.15 per kwh) each month.  Suddenly killing a watt here & there don't seem so bad does it?  However that's assuming you're paying for power and have no panels set up.

@ Nemesis
Did you wonder in from 4chan?  You're assuming all kinds of shtuff and selectively dropping statements & all...  ...just like someone from 4chan. Like assuming I'm a leech; I'm not trying to find a job; I'm going to use the cluster for earning money (besides with bitcoin)--and conveniently dropping the fact I said this all basically a big day dream.

Yea, I know :/   Because of the ASICs right?  I still have other purposes for building a cluster of GPUs (like rendering models, etc)

I haven't even done 1/2 of what I said above and I went from mining 86 mhashs at 145 watts to 65 watts.  When my PC is idle the ampere meter hardly picks-up 10 watts lol ....Still lots to do

OK I'm jobless, bored out of my mind and need something to do.  Obviously I won't be buying any hardware...  But I can dream can't I? hahaha  None-the-less I can play with the hardware & ampermeter I've already got.

Anyway I want to build (more like dream for now)  a cluster of machines that gets proportionately the highest Mhashs for as few watts as possible.  I also would like to get it powered by a solar array (I've always wanted to get one started...).  Initial cost isn't such a big deal, but obviously cheaper is better.

For now I want to discuss minimizing energy consumption.  I know underclocking and undervolting the VRAM of the GPU is one thing people do.  But here's a few thoughts...  Why not undervolt and underclock the NB of the mobo?  Disable all unused integrated components?  Going diskless (using boot server)?  Under clock/volt the CPU and disable all unused cores? Using DC directly (assuming a solar array or other DC source)?



I have no clue how much energy would be saved by under clocking/vloting the NB.  I guess that's what my ampermeter is for!

Assuming the board actually cuts power to integrated devices, it should be obvious why you'd wanna disable as much as you can. (I guess the ampermeter is good here too for verifying if integrated devices are actually powered off)

...If you boot using linux without a GUI you could get more Mhashs out of the GPU.  When I set windows to performance mode I got another 7ish Mhashs out of mine.  Imagine what Linux could do with no GUI at all!

Using a boot server, you can lose the HDD.  Which will cut-out about $60 (average price on newegg for cheapest HDD... unless you want refurb IDE) and use about 7-15 watts less per machine.  For the boot server I was thinking Raspberry Pi, because it's only $35 and uses 3.5 watts (according to wikipedia).  Going diskless also means disabling IDE/SATA controllers.

Since mining on the GPU has very little to do with CPU, you could possibly get away with the cheapest CPU and configure it to consume as little energy as possible.

Using DC directly (from batteries--no inverters), you could ditch the inefficiencies of PSUs--and even the PSU all together.  This would shave off cost of PSU, waste less energy and be one less thing to break down.


....Don't forget, every watt shaved-off is 1 less watt your AC needs to absorb!
What you all think about my ideas so far?  I had a ton more ideas but I can't think of them for now.  I'll post them as I remember and I'll comback with the results of testing with my ampermeter.

ah you guys are right.  I read the whole article.  That 200 watts is total system power consumption.  I guess I should read stuff better before posting lol

@ mrlithium
Did you look for the v3900 specificly or just for any ol' FirePro?  The V3900 should be about $120 new from newegg.  Other FirePro cards can be upto like $3000 or possibly more s:

I heard somewhere that workstation cards aren't worth it.  But I don't remember why.  

I've got a workstation card (FireGL V3900) and it's mining 85ish mhashs and consuming about 50 watts (power rating from this site: http://www.sapphirepgs.com/presentation/product/product_detail.aspx?pid=48&psn=000101).  The 7750 puts out about 120 mhashs (according to this chart https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison ) for roughly 200 watts (power rating from this site: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7770-7750-benchmark,3135-14.html ).  

Am I doing my math wrong or is my workstation card putting out about 42% more mhashs per watt than the 7750?  I'd also like to add the V3900 hardly exceeds 60C (62C max) and my case sucks for cooling.  I compared to the 7750 because the chart shows that card for getting most mhashs for the least energy.


EDIT: OK I took a closer look at the list. ....The 7750 isn't the most mhashs per joule, but def is one of the top (according to the chart)

Hello, I want to get a better feel for why people find litecoin desirable

Please answer the following questions...

1. )  Other than for potential appreciation (growth in value), why are you actively obtaining litecoin?

2. )  Do you feel litecoin is superior to bitcoin?  Why, or why not?

3. )  Does litecoin use encryption algorithms as secure as in bitcoin?

4. )  Other than gambling, what services/products are available for purchase using litecoin?  What services/products do you plan on mostly buying?

5. )  Do you have anything you'd like to state when comparing bitcoin to litecoin?

6. )  Have you bought or mined your majority of litecoin?

7. )  What is your age, and what is your country of origin? (Don't feel obligated to answer this one if you don't want to )

@ guy who wanted to use ultrasound to test metal (or anyone w/o access to $100k+ equipment:
you might be interested in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T8fdshyEek

and this (by the people who uploaded the youtube video):
http://about.ag/UltrasonicThicknessGauge.htm

Thanks everyone

Obviously bitcoin is a threat to the large banks.  What happens when bitcoins becomes noticed by these banks?  They'll do stuff to protect their empire.

I see people on here talking about requiring so much hashing power in order to throw off the bitcoin economy, and they're acting like it's so difficult to do.  And they're right!  It'll be difficult to do something like that if you don't have very much money.  But what do banks have?  Lots and lots of money.  Hell they just print more whenever they feel like it!

What stops the banks from plopping down 250 million dollars worth of hardware to attack the bitcoin network?  In the investing world, 250 million isn't THAT MUCH, and nothing at all if it means protecting your empire.  Hell what stops them from pumping in 1 billion into a research project to develop a new chip/system for themselves that'll put out more ghashs than we could ever dream of computing?


Ultimately, my question is, what stops the banks from buying their way out of bitcoins (via computing performance)?

When reading my message, keep in mind I may be remembering my college courses wrong...

That said...  The purpose of thermal compound is to fill in the microscopic gaps between two metal surfaces, maximizing thermal conductivity.  Any more than enough to fill in those gaps and it effectively becomes an insulator.

What I recall from my school, is how to apply thermal compound to the CPU, so that way the compound more effectively fills the gaps.  If I recall properly, just putting some compund in the center and installing the heatsink isn't the most effective method (it doesn't fill in those gaps as well).  But to take a plastic bag over your hand, and smear the compound on the surface of both the CPU and heatsink. Any air that gets trapped when installing the heatsink should be forced out after so much time when the CPU gets hot.

I been applying thermal compound this way for years and tends to save me a lot of compound and usually shows 5-10C cooler themps than factory application.

Have I been doing it wrong all these years or do I need to go back to school??

I been mining litecoin for a few days now, but I realized...  What can I do with it?  When I started mining, I assumed there would at the very least be some place where I could exchange it for BTC.  But I can't even find that!

Is litecoin a waste of energy?

@ mufa23: That is technically brandishing xD

Anyway my dad says he doesn't like anyone knowing he's got guns, because according to him, it may possibly make some people think you're protecting something of high value.  But your theory has some good ground too.  I suppose by showing off the fact you've got guns just changes who might want to break into your house.  It'll definitely (IMO) deter someone just looking for quick pickings, but on the other hand it may attract more experienced/hardened criminals.

None-the-less, I don't feel that showing off some guns is the best solution in keeping my computers in my possession, and it definitely won't stop the cops xD

Thanks for the response   My biggest concern related to theft, is that someone will break in hoping to score a laptop & TV, but stumble upon the servers, and stealing those too.  Do you think it'd be good enough to have the rack bolted/welded into the floor and each individual server locked into the rack cabinet?

Thanks for the idea on calling the power company!  I probly never would've thought of that xD


@ mufa23:
haha that'll work while I'm home, but not while I'm away! xD  + I already got a shotgun with .00 buckshot & a .40 glock

You're welcome

what version are you using?  Mine doesn't do that and I'm using v2012-02-19.  You should be able to check with your pool statistics to see if your card is working.  If the pool says you're putting out a number of mhash/s comparable to what guiminer says, then I guess it's working