[] taken over
[ x] could be taken over
[ x] would notice
Exactly Btw, thank god laptops still are almost never shipped with linux installed by factory default. (I always do reinstall to ubu) |
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Well... I had my doubts about you... but not even being willing to check the exchange charts to see what actually is, rather than just calling a random number. That's just sad...
Blocked.
FYI your almost 400 usd off... no you go figure out whether its less or more...
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Mikcik, what you are obviously missing here, is that any encryption is composed of multiple elements. So for your idea: SHA256: this hashes the data nothing more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2#PseudocodeEnigma machine simplification, the order you put the rotating encryption wheels. secp256r1 & secp256k1: http://www.secg.org/collateral/sec2_final.pdf page 15 & 16 Uhm this is a hard one to explain, if you know a bit about crypto, you know that the more complex you make the encryption, the harder it to bruteforce it. What these curves are supposed to do, is give a map, where you only have to do one step and it shows you the whole path, but just by moving that step by a millimeter, you see a totally different path. Which results into the fact, that if you generate a very large random number, it will be impossible for anyone to figure out the path you take. Enigma machine simplification, you have the rotating wheels for encrypting decrypting, see a curve as one of those wheels. (but instead of giving you number 1 to 27, it gives you a whole curve of numbers, almost stretching into infinity.) ECDSA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_DSAYou use this to get a conversion from private to public key. Enigma machine simplification, this would be the full enigma machine. Think this is as simple as I can put it. One part breaks, it can affect the whole thing. I could be wrong in some of this (I don't believe I am but still) so if I'm wrong please correct me. (with references please) |
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Nice, players like this expanding the market is exactly what we need. Big players finally taking it serious  |
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Instead of calling contributors to your thread fools, why don't you go study history and quote 1 example of a power being successful in stopping the adoption of a technology they did not like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmYqUSDch8Ahh the oil industry, always looking to find the next thing to replace oil, and make sure it never gets out of the laboratory. Good find though. Now lets rephrase the question to actually suite bitcoin: why don't you go study history and quote 1 example of a power being successful in stopping the adoption of a distributed technology they did not like? (this is like trying to stop the internet, or bittorrent) To OP, you shouldn't shoot down contributors to your thread... out of principle I shouldn't reply by here is my 2 cents, You can't ban or regulate bitcoin. Thats impossible, in order to regulate bitcoin, you would actually have to change the code and consensus would have to be achieved. (since no-one likes taxes no-one would vote yes for tax regulation into bitcoin, per example) You can attempt to ban it... You can actually become quite successful at this... However go ask in China, Iran, Egypt, Syria to name a few, whether you can truly ban something on the internet, making it impossible for anyone to access. You should already know the answer to that, we wouldn't have heard about either the things in Egypt or Syria without it. So allow... they don't have a choice, they can speed it up, or delay it. The only way however that they will stop Bitcoin reaching 500 Billion market cap is by inventing something that is even better. (though luck after the financial industry has been sitting on their ass and not innovating for 50+ years. -- Andreas Antonopolous has great comments on this, (innovating with and without permission) google his talks on conferences -- And after all that, as a group of governments it has no benefit to them, and the banks will beg them to put a stop to it. However, if you look from the point of any individual government, excluding the US, you see a foreign reserve currency that no-one controls, opposed to a foreign reserve currency that is being controlled by a government, a competitor. (if I may call it so) Since its obvious no-one trusts a foreign government, everyone is looking at this non-government controlled currency and is thinking... How much shit will I get for jumping in first... And how big will be benefits be... And currently this is being weighed in a good 50 nations (the other 100+ not being fully aware yet... but will be soon and weighing the same thing) Where does this put us... We need to keep pushing our governments... to accept. The only unknown in this whole story is the US government... Will they voluntarily give up their place at the top of the food chain... I don't expect so... On the other hand what are they going to do... Go to war with the rest of the world all at once? (Note, Canada & Australia are looking pretty positive towards bitcoin, so does Germany, Switserland & East Europe, haven't heard much in the south of Europe about it yet, but kinda expecting it to be a boom there too, since they are having all those issues in Greece, Italy and Spain / Portugal) Then you have the unknown in here, which is China, will they remain neutral, side with the US or side with the rest of the world... Personally I'm expecting China will do whatever they can to piss off the US. Either way, the next 5 years are going to be very rough, and a lot of things are going to happen very rapidly. Hopefully in 5 years everything will have quieted down again and we live in a better world. |
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Things to keep in mind, Miners start moving away from pools start to reach close or on 50%.. Secondly, the bitcoin community never sleeps... You can try to pull off a 51% attack unnoticed, but depending on how quick you are you are fighting idealists... So if you wanna attack the network you gotta do it in quick succession, or these crazy guys will find so much hashing power... that you need to go back to production. If you have near unlimited resources you can still pull of a 51% attack and attempt to destroy the network. But unless you want to destroy the network... a 51% attack is useless... Stealing other peoples coins, instantly makes all coins useless, attempting double spends same. Keep in mind though that the bitcoin network is still rising with more than 20% hashing power per 2 weeks... All this together means that you would need to pretent for a long time to be serious player in the industry, without getting caught. Even then the chances of you pulling it off... No-one knows... Say someone was serious, and we saw a chunk of 45% unknown... knc, asic-miner, avalon, bfl they all aren't gonna risk that bitcoin goes to zero... They will turn on any hashing power they have in stock to compensate, maybe even delaying customer shipping. And the community will love them for it as they saved bitcoin. (good chance I still missed some mining companies) So pulling off an attack now, has you fighting against those parties to start of with, then the idealists will start putting their GPU's back to bitcoin. (all alt-coins will see a big drop in hashing power) So if you can beat all of this right now, you can pull it off. However a year from now, the market will be saturated with the latest gen ASICs, at which point I don't even see the US gov pull of a 51% attack, due to the sheer volume of hashing power needed. (you're going to be looking at millions of latest gen ASIC to pull of a 51% attack) So all in all... not to worried... the gov's are still to busy with laughing... (some appear to be getting it, but looking at the history, they are just doing their old business... for example India) By the time they realize... its going to be late to stop it. Beyond government's, we don't have to fear many, as almost all humans or companies are motivated by money or ideology, the money incentive of bitcoin is easy, and as far as ideology goes most are fighting for freedom, which clearly lines up with bitcoin. (what's more free than being able to send money to anyone you want, without anyone being able to tell you no) So yea, its FUD as always  |
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Andreas does great interview, but I think his view that bitcoin will either take over or it will fail is naive. There are many scenarios where it could just end up limping along as a niche product.
snip...
I think you're missing the point here, the 1 billion that doesn't have banking but does have internet, don't care about any of the above. They look at the facts and see bitcoin as better money then their local currency. Hence it will either fail. (something unfixable breaks, some astronomically better crypto currency takes over bitcoin) Or it will take over, it has a potential 1 billion users that have nowhere else to go at this time.. 15% of the world population using it doesn't sound like a niche product to me. But let me grab them one at a time for you: I think the most obvious constraint to its growth will be regulation. Bitcoin is not invulnerable, it could be crippled by regulation.
Regulation is not global.. Unless you ban bitcoin it will keep flourishing in the regions where its not regulated. I also think that it will be challenged by competition in the finance industry. Bitcoin may be good for a lot of things but it isn't necessarily the best choice for everything. It has limitations that other payment systems don't have, and others will take advantage of BItcoin's weaknesses.
Agreed, however keep in mind that the finance industry is happy to take up to 10% from you, bitcoin does things at a fraction of that. The is a whole lot of things that they can do, however now they are forced to innovate rather than to sleep and collect what they have been doing for the past 50 years. (people will become much more aware of cost) Also, consider that other factors will reduce the value of a bitcoin despite its adoption:
2/3 of bitcoins are hoarded (a recent estimate). When the value finally starts leveling out, those hoarded bitcoins are going to be spent, doubling or tripling the bitcoins in circulation.
These don't all get dumped out at the same time, everyone has their own price, and almost all early adopters understand that dumping a whole lot of coins on the market at once, is gonna sink the price... Someone wanting to purposely hurt bitcoin, could momentarily do so... End of the line, if bitcoins have already been proven valuable it doesn't matter... it will take a little dip and come back up. Also, consider that fractional reserve banking will increase the bitcoin money supply by possibly a factor of 10.
Uhh... history has proven that if you give money to a bank that does fractional reserve banking, is that if the bank crashes, you lose your money. I really wouldn't trust my bitcoins to a bank that does fractional reserve banking... And thanks to bitcoin I actually have a choice in that matter. Finally, a major constraint of a bitcoin's value is Bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is much more efficient than other payment systems. Bitcoin's efficiency will increase the velocity of money by many times, perhaps by a factor of 10.
No idea what you are talking about... The fact that bitcoins get transported faster is a good thing right?  Owh and in case you missed it, the price goes up, and transaction volume goes up, while theory would say otherwise. So, keeping these factors in mind, if you come up with a prediction of $X, maybe you should divide X by 200 to 300 to get a more realistic value. The Winklevii predict $40k bitcoins, but that prediction is perhaps really $1500 to $2000.
So looking at what my idea is of what bitcoin is going to be, my prediction hit around $4 million, (20 years tops) so I disagree but lets say I'm completely wrong, I'm dividing times 400... I still hit 10k low. Going more realistic there might be some trust and resistance towards bitcoin, so lets say divide times 40, leaving 100.000 sound pretty reasonable to me. Then again, price doesn't really matter, the cat is out of the bag... this is a new technology which we don't fully understand yet, possibly as big as the internet. In my opinion that alone is enough to have it take over the world. It's a curious time we live in, gonna be some story looking back twenty years from now. |
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Depending on the specific location, this should be possible with relative ease, and relative low cost. Rebuilding a washing machine to accept bitcoin, can be done for under $50. The one factor where you have to look at, is what does internet cost. you can hook all washing machine to basically a single mobile connection, but preferably you're gonna want a hard line. Dependable on where you are... these might be expensive, but overall they are pretty cheap (you should be able to get one for a low as $10 a month) One factor to also keep in mind, is that you gotta adjust with exchange rates, with the way prices going now... it won't be fun to all of a sudden having to pay 20 bucks for laundry...  |
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Andreas should be the official spokesperson for Bitcoin.
Seriously.
You're obviously still struggling to understand the basic concept behind a decentralized peer-to-peer currency based on an open source software protocol. Bitcoin can't have an "official spokesperson". Seriously. What? There's a list of recommended spokesman from the Bitcoin Foundation....... The Bitcoin Foundation is not Bitcoin. No kidding. What I'm saying is BittBurger was probably suggesting he be added to that list, which does actually exist. I'm not interested in the politics of whether or not you particularly feel represented by the Foundation. I frankly don't care what you're interested in. I was responding to Bittburger's suggestion that someone can "be the official spokesperson for Bitcoin", which is absurd. He didn't say anything about a list or The Bitcoin Foundation. He misspoke out of confusion, laziness or lack of knowledge. You are just being an arrogant prick, and taking his words literally, when any person with the IQ of a monkey can infer what he actually meant. Given that you not only fail to see that, but instead gave him an arrogant answer which really does not help in any way (either by making him see where he is wrong or referring him to the actual information he needs to understand); it had to be said: There is a Bitcoin Foundation and it has an actual lists of recommended spokesmen, regardless of what you feel about it/them. So, if you wanna be a literal prick, let me tell, you're wrong as well. His words are not absurd given that there is actually at least one entity that can act as an official spokesman, and has done so in the past: Satoshi. You're the arrogant prick. (BTW I agree with what Andreas says.) But for those who don't, they need to understand that there is not and can not be an official Bitcoin spokesperson. If they happen to disagree with another Bitcoin supporter's views then they can still benefit from using Bitcoin. Details and wording are important. Failure to acknowledge this will just lead to even more confusion than there already is ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0CvAeNlku0&t=8m30s). If pointing that out gets your panties in a bunch, then tough shit. I agree with shawshankinmate37927, there can not be "the official spokesperson" we can suggest a list of preferred spokespersons, but there is no "single" position in Bitcoin, every position is shared by many. Also I would like to point out to you gentlemen, that you have a lot of non-native English people on these forums, coming from all over the world, all with different levels of English skill. Shooting off at someone for taking something literal... is acting like a dumb tv American, and while funny on tv, is not appreciated here. We're all (ok, almost all) intelligent people and shooting off doesn't help anybody... Furthermore, I've found the ignore button very illuminating in the past 3 months. (never had to use it before) Nowadays, aggressive flames get an auto-ignore from me, along with all the other hostilities people are directing at others. |
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OP is full of FUD... best to just ignore him.
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The amount of hate in this thread is just sad... I'm gonna go back and hit the ignore button a couple of times. (update: so a dozen people addded)
To OP, hope Cryptsy answers but ain't looking that way. Also do you happen to have a source for the funds lending claim?
If it's true what they did, they deserve to get crushed.
To the kind souls in this thread, awesome job trying to keep up the positive attitude.
To the rest... Does your mother know you like to spread so much hate on the internet, and what would she say about it? Enjoy it while it lasts, 5 years from now the NSA will put a stop to it.
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Wow, I haven't seen something this positive yet.
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Well... "Hacker to Fire Digital Currency Into Orbit" makes a better headline than "IT expert plans to launch satellite with digital currency software" Nice press Jeff! Should help wit the awareness |
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Many have talked about p2p exchanges, the biggest problem of the bat is fiat currency.
While I've seen many words dedicated to it, I've yet to see one actually build.
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In the 1930s, when the Federal Reserve let the money supply contract, there was a true shortage of currency. At least 150 communities experimented with scrip—printing their own money to grease the wheels of commerce. None worked, and all have disappeared.
Today, because of worries about the Fed printing too much money, a private online global scrip, called Bitcoin, has been created. This scrip is supposed to protect society from inflationary monetary policy.
Could Bitcoins become an alternative to the money or monies that exist across the globe? One of the biggest investors in Bitcoins thinks so. The Winklevoss twins, of Facebook FB +2.87% fame, think the market for Bitcoins could increase 100-fold to more than $400 billion. And a Costa Mesa, Calif., luxury car dealer is reportedly selling cars, including a Tesla S and a Lamborghini Gallardo, for Bitcoins.
Enlarge Image
Reuters
Bitcoins are "mined" by running a computer algorithm, creating a digitized code. That code can then be used to complete online transactions. The algorithm makes it progressively harder to mine Bitcoins as the total number increases. Preset limits supposedly cap the maximum number of Bitcoins at 21 million, and right now there are roughly 12 million in existence. Rising hope of wider acceptance drove the price of a Bitcoin to more than $1,200 a few weeks ago. But when Baidu.com, BIDU -0.15% the Chinese web services company, said it would not accept the scrip, the price fell sharply and it currently trades near $900.
Bitcoins meet most of the criteria of money. They are a medium of exchange, a unit of account, a store of value and a standard of deferred payment. But what ultimately gives money value is that it is accepted by others in trade for something of value. And that is why scrip doesn't work.
Let's say a barber in a Wisconsin town accepts scrip for haircuts and uses it to eat at a local restaurant that buys its produce from a local farmer. As long as each of these businesses kept all their purchases in the community, all would be well. But why would a scissor manufacturer in Germany or China or even Chicago accept this scrip? The car dealer in California, for example, is not actually accepting Bitcoins for his vehicles—they first have to be converted to U.S. dollars.
To become a true alternative currency, Bitcoins need to be accepted in a wide enough swath of society to facilitate the normal transaction of business. If they aren't, they will always trade at a discount to their potential value.
Right now, total cash and deposits in the U.S. banking system (the M2 money supply), is roughly $11 trillion. Assuming 21 million Bitcoins are mined and they become an accepted currency, each one could be worth as much as $524,000. This is a massive potential appreciation from their current level.
However, the list of companies that accept Bitcoin as payment for actual transactions make up what I estimate to be less than one-hundredth of a percent of all spending, or GDP. Since money gets its value from the goods, services and assets that it can purchase, a Bitcoin is currently worth only 0.01% of its true potential, or about $52.40.
Bitcoins require storage space (in a computer), power to run the computer (electricity), security (from hacking), and computational power (serious encryption) on both sides of a transaction. There are firms that act as middlemen in Bitcoin transactions, and firms that make a market in Bitcoins, but they are new and have no serious financial track record. Many Bitcoin transactions facilitate illegal commerce. The Bitcoin world is not friction-free, or clean.
And is it really true that no more than 21 million Bitcoins can be produced? Hackers keep getting better, and the temptation to expand the supply of money has been powerful (and profitable, for the issuer) since the time of the Romans. These costs and questions all impact the value of a Bitcoin substantially.
To become a real alternative currency, Bitcoins must be recognized by a majority of businesses and consumers. They must be as safe, or safer, than currency issued by a central bank. And they must be transportable. Currently, the Bitcoin does not meet any of these requirements, and this is why it is trading for much less than its actual convertible U.S. dollar value.
If you believe Bitcoin in time will become an alternative to the world's currencies, there are huge potential profits as the value of a Bitcoin rises to $524,000—or higher if drug dealers and other nefarious users are willing to pay a premium for anonymity.
But to be truly successful, Bitcoins have to win the battle of money on all levels of competition and that is a very high hurdle to clear.
Mr. Wesbury is chief economist at First Trust Advisors LP.
Don't ask me how I got that... I googled and hit the link... and somehow got the full article... (always have scripts off..) http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303497804579241790259672808 |
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Yea I'm also a bit skeptic about this...
First you talk about a group of friends... then later you talk about a group of people willing to come see this... turn into paid event seminar... and you're only willing to offer 100 bucks?
High quality 60-90 minute presentation, on average you need at least 5 minutes to create every minute, so 450 minutes (longest presentation scenario) or 7 hours and 30 minutes of work. Since it's high quality, I would expect market rates. So taking a simple hourly cost of 65 (which imo, is the bottom line here, good presentation creator should be able to ask at least 200 an hour) it would make 65 x 7.5 hours, 487.50 round it easily, 500 bucks.
So in order to want quality, I would start by offering 1 btc.
Just simple business economics, coming from Main street, I'm sure you can understand.
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I have read lotsa articles on BTC lately. I have noticed most of them are overlooking one important fact about BTC when considering to name it a currency and see its real possibilities. The fact it can be divided - 0.001, 0.000001, 0.00000000000001 or whatever. There is practically no limitation. I think this is essential for wider acceptance too. People are used to think in scales of 1$, 1EUR,...when it comes to currency and now 1 BTC. But this is wrong. There will be only 21mil of BTCs (actually less as some coins will be lost forever), but number of BTC users will be probably in hundreds of millions. There will be definitelly need to find apropriate name for smaller BTC unit for masses to use - something pretty catchy The limit is actually 8 decimal places, but I get your point Easy to change that. Yup and the best part, nobody minds as their money will still be worth the same (rather than adding money and making everyones money worth less) |
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I don't have faith in Bitcoin anymore because it's a fraud. No I'm not a Troll, I gave it a chance. I think it's a scam to bring in a new one world currency. The Fed Reserve wants this. JP Morgan Chase wants this. The tyrants of Wallstreet want this. China wants this. Can this not be any clearer? Even the so called "Bitcoin Foundation" are kissing the boots of the illegitimate government to regulate it and use it for their needs...The coverage has been everywhere on this despite other topics of greater concern are ignored. So this stinks to high hell and I'm done for the most part. I think other elements of survival in this Brave New World are more reassuring like metal, ammo, and etc.
They always ignore topics of great concern in the media, nothing new there, nothing bitcoin can really do about that either short term. It also really depends on what you want Bitcoin to be, were the money of the future is to broad for me. I see it more as the transition currency, just enough tricks in its bag to keep government happy enough to not enforce it to be changed. (they can trace all the money, however they don't control it) And since this is a crypto currency, its going to be real easy to trade for other crypto currencies. Meaning the currency where they can't even trace your money anymore, can be right around the corner. However, if it pops up before we got the government hooked on bitcoin... it might turn badly. The moment governments are hooked, we'll reach the point of no return. (were they can't really go back to fiat anymore, as no-one would accept it) Then you can spawn a full anonymous currency, and there will be nothing they can do to stop it. So bitcoin is very important. All the other elements of survival you would need anyway As far as money goes, its smart to diversify. If the end of the world hits, and you happen to meet a nerd in a bunker, you'll be happy you brought bitcoins and not just only gold |
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