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Unfortunately, we didn't do a very good job marketing this sale and didn't raise nearly enough to get going. We have refunded any tokens purchased and are regrouping to think about how to proceed. Any help or suggestions are much appreciated.
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That link summarizes well why REITs are worse than real estate crowdfunding. And this should be real estate crowdfunding on steroids, I'm convinced. Waiting for August 31.
That link say talks about 2 things, investing in specific shares of property and development liquidity, neither of which is accomplished by REAL... I which there was a way to short ICO's. |
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REAL will own the those properties?
Whose company is that? Ours? I don't think so.
Yes, we will be working similarly to how funds work. Melissa You buy and apartment for $200k then you put it to list on REAL let's say for 2m real token. But people invest in it just 1.5m. You rent out the apartment and get the money. You'll distribute 75% to the those investors or 100%? Of course minus operational costs. They are also diluting the token supply by printing an extra 20% to comp themselves as well as taking 10% out of the profits for themselves... They claim currency appreciation but based on absolutely no logic other than the hope that people will continue to irrationally invest in ICO's.. This project is an expensive, insecure and unregulated version of a REIT. Not sure why people find this interesting. Lets assume you only sell $1m of REAL coins. Lets say that creates a supply of 1M REAL tokens. You then print 200k REAL tokens and give yourself a bonus. Lets say you spend the $1M on real estate. Your portfolio value: $1M Total Token Supply = 1.2M Tokens held by token holders = 1M Total % of portfolio held by token holders = ~83$ Total equity value of token holders = ~830k (a 170k loss) Then, you start to generate rents, lets say you leverage the portfolio and acquire 5M worth of real estate and get 10% Cash on Cash. You then generate 100k, only 83k of which you pay token holders, but first, you take 10k out for your profit share. So that number looks more like 74k So, you are taking 20% of the value right out of the gate, reducing the profits, and elevating risk through leverage - (banks will get paid before token holders) Compare to a traditional REIT When you invest 1M, the REIT pays that same dividend (say they make the same investments so $100k / 10% COC) to shareholders. They will take 1% out so that 100k becomes 99K So, what is larger, 74K or 99K? You guys will destroy at least 25% of the value of a real estate portfolio for token holders in order to compensate yourselves. As I said, very expensive and blochchain provides no benefit here. |
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Can I get some info on what forces will affect the price of REAL tokens?
I assume the strongest force will be perceived value and speculation?
Also expected return on investment?
Will some REAL tokens be more expensive, simply because they are bringing more profit due to being invested in better properties?
Basically if I were to spend 100ETH on Real, then apart from the dividents being paid can I expect the tokens to go up in value? And why?
Cheers
Hi CYPER! Main force behind value grow will be users demand. As the site becomes successful and more users enjoy its profits there will be a demand of more REAL tokens and price will go up. Real estate valuations are based on incomes and have much lower yield expectations than what you are inferring the cryptomarket will do to your token. You also did not address the 10% you will take off the top of net income for your leadership team (vs a REIT that takes 1%) So you are targeting crypto speculation as the main value driver for buyers, not the asset itself, so once again, why wouldn't someone buy tokens, conflate it with real estate, with the hopes that maybe your team will choose good investments, even though you don't specialize in the markets which you are vetting, and maybe the cryptomarket will go up as a whole, and maybe your token scarcity will have an impact. Seems like folks should just buy Ether and invest in real estate separately, there is no reason this should be a blockchain project besides perhaps REAL trying to capitalize on ICOs in general rather than building a real security with all the legal frameworks, investment prospectuses and comparable / much more affordable expense ratios. Smart contracts for income distribution are great but they do not in any way stop any manipulation that can take place between the tenants payments and the funds getting to the smart contract - ie, your smart contracts don't perform rent collection etc... |
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Why does this need to be a blockchain project? Firms like fundrise already do this and have much lower expense ratios...
Why blockchain? transparency, liquidity and global access. Read more on https://medium.com/@real_token/the-need-for-real-123d970ba812Much lower ? No. Much more expensive. Fundrise charges 1% per year on invested amount plus 2% setup fee. REAL charges 0% per year on invested amount and 0% setup fee. REAL just takes a comission of profits, ending up way cheaper. That is really deceptive, you are allocating 20% of the token supply to founders, your fees are irrelevant, the value of the portfolio is diluted by at least 20% - meaning, on the backside, investors are giving away 20% of the value of the portfolio to you, that is much higher than a 1% annual fee. That is also not correct Mike! This is not a fund and tokens are not shares. REAL is a crowdfunding platform that will distribute 90% of net profits to its users. Tokens are the internal currency that will be used to invest into properties. Let me know if you have more doubts, Thanks Melissa So, the dividends from cashflows will be distributed to token holders proportional to the number of REAL they own and invest in properties? Yes. Every user will be able to choose different properties and build a custom portfolio. Got it, so you are diluting the supply by 20% to compensate founders plus 10% out of the expenses before posting the dividends, again, this seems very expensive. In exchange, there are none of the protections you get with a traditional REIT. Do token holders have any rights to the deeds of the properties explicitly of would we have to rely on REAL to facilitate recovery to token holders in case liquidation happens? (IE, who owns the real estate itself, what explicit legal rights do token holders have?) |
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Why does this need to be a blockchain project? Firms like fundrise already do this and have much lower expense ratios...
Why blockchain? transparency, liquidity and global access. Read more on https://medium.com/@real_token/the-need-for-real-123d970ba812Much lower ? No. Much more expensive. Fundrise charges 1% per year on invested amount plus 2% setup fee. REAL charges 0% per year on invested amount and 0% setup fee. REAL just takes a comission of profits, ending up way cheaper. That is really deceptive, you are allocating 20% of the token supply to founders, your fees are irrelevant, the value of the portfolio is diluted by at least 20% - meaning, on the backside, investors are giving away 20% of the value of the portfolio to you, that is much higher than a 1% annual fee. That is also not correct Mike! This is not a fund and tokens are not shares. REAL is a crowdfunding platform that will distribute 90% of net profits to its users. Tokens are the internal currency that will be used to invest into properties. Let me know if you have more doubts, Thanks Melissa So, the dividends from cashflows will be distributed to token holders proportional to the number of REAL they own and invest in properties? |
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Why does this need to be a blockchain project? Firms like fundrise already do this and have much lower expense ratios...
Why blockchain? transparency, liquidity and global access. Read more on https://medium.com/@real_token/the-need-for-real-123d970ba812Much lower ? No. Much more expensive. Fundrise charges 1% per year on invested amount plus 2% setup fee. REAL charges 0% per year on invested amount and 0% setup fee. REAL just takes a comission of profits, ending up way cheaper. That is really deceptive, you are allocating 20% of the token supply to founders, your fees are irrelevant, the value of the portfolio is diluted by at least 20% - meaning, on the backside, investors are giving away 20% of the value of the portfolio to you, that is much higher than a 1% annual fee. |
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Why does this need to be a blockchain project? Firms like fundrise already do this and have much lower expense ratios...
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Is the sale a bust? The ethscan address looks like no one invested in it? Maybe the ideas aren't communicated clearly enough, or cryptonerds don't care about art.
The crypto address is the contract address, transactions can be seen in the escrow address linked from the contract. |
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This bounty program is a final Blitz with only 3.5 Days left to the token sale for ArtCoin - Artcoin
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017582
Artcoin.fundThe deal: To join the bounty, create your first post / Sig post and PM me the link. Artcoin offers 3% of all Tokens for the bounty campaigns collected during the ICO. As a reward, participants are to receive ART Tokens. Award will be given only if we are able to reach our fundraising goal of 1000Eth by the end of this token sale (3 days from now) - 20%* of the bounty pool to be allocated to the Twitter campaign.
- Each member of Twitter Bounty campaign should have at least 500 followers - Each member should follow the official Artcoin.fund (@Artcoin.fund) Twitterpage and post tweets about Artcoin Token Sale A member, who has not retweeted tweets during one week or unfollowed the official SocialX Twitterpage, is not eligible for a reward. Points per tweet or retweet +500 Followers 1 Point +1000 Followers 5 Points +5000 Followers 30 Points +10000 Followers 65 Points - 20%* of the bounty pool to be allocated to Blog campaign.
Write an article about Artcoin.com on your own Blog and you will receive stakes depending on the size of the article and the number of readers. Every submission will be rated individually, but you can use the following tables as a reference: Blog Size Points 300 - 500 Words 10 Points 500 - 700 Words 20 Stakes +700 Words 30 Points Popularity Points 10 Upvotes +5 Points 20 Upvotes +10 Points 30 Upvotes +20 Points BLOG POSTS For Blog posts we will decide individually for each Article. - 20%* of the bounty pool to be allocated to the BitcoinTalk Thread bounty
- Each campaign member should make at least 7 publications on Bitcointalk within our ANN Thread during their participation in the bounty. Warning: spam is not allowed and spammers will be declined from the campaign and reported to moderator. - Your account rank must be Jr Member or higher - 40%* of the bounty pool to be allocated to the BitcoinTalk Signature campaign.
- In order to participate, each member should get set up with a signature, create a post and PM me - We have a 20 member cap through the end of the sale and will reply to your PM with the URL of the submission link form once we verify you have set up the proper signature and your eligibility. If we determine you did not meet the criteria or we have hit our cap, we reserve the right to reject the application -Then, each member should set up a Artcoin signature in their Bitcointalk profile according to the profile rank. BBC signature codes are available bellow. -Each campaign member should make at least 25 publications on Bitcointalk outside Artcoin topic page during their participation in the campaign. A member, who has removed artcoin signature during the bounty campaign, is not eligible for a reward. Each campaign member is to receive points, considering profile rank at Bitcointalk: Legendary/Hero: 10 points Senior/Full: 7 points Junior/Member: 5 points - This bounty is reserved for influencers in the cryptocurrency or art space. Participators need to have at least 3.000 followers on Twitter in order to be eligible. - Participators can contribute by writing an article or making a youtube video about artcoin.fund - Contributors need to follow @artcoinfund on Twitter in order to participate. HAPPY BOUNTY HUNTING!
Signatures: Here is the sig. code: Code for Full member  [center][url=https://artcoin.fund/][color=#ee9828][font=Franklin Gothic Medium][color=#e8262d]ArtCoin.Fund[/font][/color] [color=#535353]║░║[/color] [b][font=century gothic][color=#e8262d]FUTURE OF HOW ART IS:[/color][/font][/b] [color=#535353]║░║[/color][/url] [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017582.0][color=#e8262d][b][font=Franklin Gothic Medium]ANN Thread[/font][/b][/color][/url]
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I really love Coins with real world connection so this could be really interesting. I am closely watching and we will see how it evolves in the future  Great! We would love to have you participate and need your support! |
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I must criticize your web presentation, it should be more artistic, or should i say professionally done. Concept is good and need for such token exists. Put more efforts in Marketing and you can expect more in return. So far we didn't had a chance to see anything similar. Good Luck!
Thank you for the feedback, do you mean the powerpoint? |
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There is a company that is already utilizing blockchain tech to track the buy/sale of fine art. I also notice that there seems to be a lack of anybody in the actual arts on your team. I have a degree in Fine Art, not that you should hire me, but it is curious that an Artcoin doesn't have people actually in the arts advising.
We have several prominent advisors who are absolutely part of the project and the project lead has an arts background, BFA in Fine Arts, Curatorial experience etc... |
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CROWD-SALE NOW LIVE!!!Don't miss "one of the most unique ICO's" to date - join the art revolution. Transform the automation economy Protect your Crypto by funding value growth artworks Still have questions, let us know! Join Nowhttp://artcoin.fund |
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Can you help us with ours? artcoin.fund
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Less then 12 hours left to the presale - don't miss an opportunity to get 33%+ off the token price for just 12 more hours. We will not have another sale during the crowdsale. artcoin.fund |
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It's a good idea to add value from the art itself, one can easily find what he likes in terms of art, history of art, and how art is created, I think this is one of the brightest projects
Thank you very much Almiani - We think this will create a lot of value for token holders and the market - the best part is, before blockchain, nothing like this was possible. We believe this will attract a lot of great and broad attention and appreciation for the transformative nature of blockchain and what it can do for investors and society alike. |
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Thank your answer. When did this project start running? We have been building smart contracts, token and materials for around 2 months. The project was conceptualized in 2014 |
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Hi Everyone - 1 day 16 hours left to the pre-sale - we are offering a 33% bonus during the pre-sale and are planning some really exciting announcements over the next few days. Don't miss out on the opportunity to disrupt the market and get a bonus in the process! If you are on the fence and need additional information, please join our reddit or slack channels / or PM me and we can answer questions or set up conference calls if need be
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