That's a shame as its an early order and you'd be well in profit if it was delivered right now. Have a trawl through the custom hardware threads (once you're out of newbie jail) to see if anyone can give advice https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=76.0 |
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We're in a Gold Rush.
In a Gold Rush, nobody knew how much gold was available, so ROI couldn't be calculated. With BTC, we know there are on average 3600 coins per day to be had. True, but the tricky part is knowing how many other Gold Miners are going to join you in the panning fields. The huge demand (and consequent high price) for ASIC's is proof that its going to get pretty crowded. The only question is how fast they will deliver the backlog and how high the consequent increase in difficulty will go. Where will it be when you get your hands on yours. Got a crystal ball? |
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Yeah I'm not sure how some of the Block Eruptor buyers expect to make any money. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're buying them for such high prices (0.038 BTC per share per week is an awesome div), but even at the difficulty levels as they were when they first went on sale, people were looking at like 200 to 1 year to return their investment (assuming that difficulty didn't change too much). Admitted the block Eruptor is more powerful than the ASIC i'm waiting on, but my ASIC is a fraction of the price.
I've been pointing the newbies at this calculator http://coinish.com/calc ... its a great way to predict ROI. Just be sure to use Expert mode to see the effect of difficulty increasing. Of course being as it uses a crude exponential model, the result will be more and more inaccurate as the payback time increases (who can predict difficulty that far in advance?) but its a useful wakeup to over-enthusiastic newbies wanting to buy-in to the latest big thing. |
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Sure it can!
Umm, care to provide a reference for that? Scrypt is a very different beast from sha256. |
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Interesting logic, but did you check the ROI on purchase in BTC? Perhaps you should hedge your bet by buying some BTC on an exchange too?
I did do some quick ROI calculations before i paid for the ASIC. I don't see my ASIC making me a huge fortune (between it's comparatively low hashing power and BFL's "relaxed" shipping policies) , but it makes for an interesting project and even if i don't break even, worst case, i've lost $200, it's not the end of the world (I never invest more than i can afford to lose). I've hedged my investment buy buying ASICMiner stock. I bought it when it was like 0.8 BTC a share. I've easily covered the money I've spent on the ASIC and then some. Good to hear it, as long as you did your math right and are happy with the result its cool. Early investors in ASICMiner are making a killing (partly at the expense of the gung-ho punters buying the overpriced Block Erupters). Good for you! I was being a little naughty with my "hedge your bet" comment. You're actually doubling-down in the hope that BTC gains value.  |
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I bought my Asic in USD rather than BTC. That way i figure, barring a crash in the value of BTC, it shouldn't be too hard to get my $200 investment back. Now all i need to do is receive my ASIC
Interesting logic, but did you check the ROI on purchase in BTC? Perhaps you should hedge your bet by buying some BTC on an exchange too? |
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Well of course its possible. I could lend you some of my (meagre) coin and charge you interest on the loan.
But more profitable if I set up a "bank", take deposits in BTC (which I transfer to MY wallet), offer silly rates of interest to attract the punters, and (optionally) lend out some of those deposits to my credit customers. Classic ponzi scheme (just like the fractional reserve banking described upthread, that seems to be accepted as perfectly legit in the banking world.) I'm surprised nobody's already tried it (perhaps they have, I'm new on here so does anyone know?)
[Edit] Of course real world banks don't offer silly rates of interest to their depositors, which is why the legit ones are not ponzi's. So that model also works with bitcoin (provided there is no run on the bank, in which case you just say sorry and apply for chapter-whatever).
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Can a k16 klondike board with avalon chips mine for litecoin and bitcoin?
Not litecoin as it uses the scrypt algorithm. Completely different. No ASIC (or FPGA) currently does scrypt. It mines bitcoin or (probably) any other SHA256 ALT coin (but why would you bother with the ALTs?) |
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I don't think a single unit will ever break even, multiple should. The single unit will barely make $1/day, it won't talk many doublings of difficulty to drop that revenue down so it won't cover the electricity cost of the computer it's plugged into, which all of a sudden has to stay on 24 x 7 for the miner.
My math-fu may be failing me, but why would 1 Block Erupter not break even, but multiple would? The cost, hashrate, and power consumption all rise linearly as you add more USB sticks, no? You need only one computer to run one or several Block Erupters, think about it. Block Erupter doesn't even come close to breakeven with free electricity, free hosting computer, free internet and all the rest. Just don't even consider one at 2..0 BTC. But ASCIMINER will continue to sell them for as long as there are gullible punters that can't do the math on the ROI. Only when the sales dry up will they drop the price (it can't be costing them much more than $25 to produce). |
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The big processor manufacturers should integrate the hashing Asic into their processor design.
Intel's newest processors do include dedicated crypto cores. But they are designed for general crypto work, not the highly optimised bitcoin double hash that our ASIC-CO's are churning out, so not competitive. |
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if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
You're forgetting cash flow. The ASIC-CO's need to pay for chips, boards, production etc. So they sell in order to fund even more production. Or pre-order sales anyway. And if they're being devious they mine on the built pre-order kit until they are forced to deliver a few to keep the punters from getting too ansty. [/TINFOILHAT=OFF] But I'm sure thats not the case with our current set of manufacturers. Pretty sure anyway ... |
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So it looks like the Avalon units are around $300 for 4.5 gh/s of hash power. Is this something that you think is feasible in terms of money and hash power?
Assuming you mean the group buys of Avalon chips, plus board assembly (Klondike et al), yes, possibly. But you're late to the party so will be well down the queue for delivery, which will hit your ROI hard. I posted this elsewhere, but its relevant here ... |
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Didn't mean to spit in your face about the link sorry, I was thinking about another thread on the same subject that was a in depth tutorial on how to buy the USB from a user on the forum.
No offence taken, you need a thick skin to post on these threads. I'm having a ball |
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Maybe you should look into that, the budget is a little over $100 though, I believe some are selling for around $200-$300.
The Block Eruptor is currently 2.0 BTC, but it will never return that investment over its lifetime. Possibly one on the Klondike group buys would be profitable (look in the Mining/Custom Hardware threads) , but you'' be a latecomer so even that is dubious now. |
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We're in a Gold Rush. Too many people buying ASIC pre-orders without doing the math on the ROI. Most of them will get burned as they will never recover their investment (regardless of how much BTC appreciates agains the $). If you spend 2.0BTCon a block eruptor and it mines you only 1.0BTC over its entire life, you still lost 1.0BTC (and its even worse if that BTC is now worth $10000, you should have kept your 2.0BTC in your wallet instead).
In a Gold Rush only the guys selling the shovels make money. The ASIC manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank as most of their cost is already spent in FOAK investment. But they'll only drop the price when the punters stop ordering, so do your math on the ROI carefully, and don't feed the bubble.
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As long as you're covering your power costs, its still worth mining. But once the difficulty increases to the point that your power costs more than the BTC is worth, you would be better off just buying BTC on an exchange, rather than continuing to mine in the expectation that the BTC will eventually be worth a great deal more.
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I'm having trouble finding where I can buy these little devils. Other than that asicgigahash website.
Could I get a link to that thread?
Umm, I gave it to you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190731.0Yes its hard to find the best deal, but you're pretty much on your own there, just jump into the mosh pit https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=76.0 n Bitcoin isn't free money, Its more like raw anarchism (with a kindly god looking over it). Satoshi, the ultimate Deist God sets it in motion, then steps out for a cup of tea, while we mortals get on with the nitty gritty for a few millenia to prove the concept, Then at the second coming ... sorry that's another thread (out of context problem) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=221411.0 |
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