Helpful Skills-cryptography -distributed algorithm implementation -various coding languages: C++, java, ruby, perl etc. -mathematics -logic -creativity Is this project right for you?-the ideal developer would have a strong motivation for driving social change -this project has the ability to massively affect the climate of innovation for the entire world -Nemesis development has a long term payoff structure; if you mine early or hold onto your coins for submissions, you can potentially cash out huge -a good developer will bring one's own ideas and stick up for what one believes in -have the ability to think abstractly -allegiance to the open source movement and the belief that innovators should be adequately compensated for their contributions to society PM me if you are interested or... if you wish to remain anonymous while helping, create an email: Nemesis0xx@hushmail.com and send an email to Nemesis000@hushmail.com (works with TOR)
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I am now looking for developers and contributors for Nemesis. Here's the developer recruitment page:
<https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=338080.new>
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x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x
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:::-:::+:::-:::|___| \_____| |_________| |___| \____| \__\ |_________| |_________| |___| |________| :::-:::+:::-:::
x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x=+=x
I am looking for developers to help construct the first ever open source intellectual property system called Nemesis. The system will compete directly with the USPTO the same way Bitcoin competes with the Federal Reserve. We are trying to make a cryptographic ledger that amasses information for the public by the public. Shares of the ledger will be traded publicly.
This project would be able to reuse some of Bitcoin's source code, but would require novel coding for a cryptographic proof of storage network. Some new breakthroughs have made single hash verification of proof of storage feasible, allowing this concept to come to life.
All developers will be compensated for their creation of intellectual property by transacting their work for cryptographic currency specific to their submissions. The ledger will host any submitted web content such as: memes, general entertainment, music, movies, published trade secrets, and inventions.
<https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252564.0>
// Getting Familiar with the Concept //
Nemesis is an encryption based proposal for a cipher space hosting corporation backed by the inherent value of useful information (inventions, software, movies, music)
- a new claim specific currency is generated for each data submission, a portion of this currency is transacted to the submitter's wallet, the rest is transacted to public wallet, where it is paid out over time to the proof of storage miners, storing the submitted information
- each data submission is timestamped to prevent forgery (information can be copied but the date cannot be reproduced)
- each submission (claim) can be linked to (cite) a number of previous submissions
- Nemesis has a user interface with two types of advertising space: the first is advertising in a common area, the second is advertising in an information specific area
- advertisers compete for advertising space with bids of the respective currency to the respective wallet with 0 hour contracts, the highest bidder wins
- claim specific currency can be transacted for general use currency at the market price (these are effectively two types of stock: A and B)
- claims (data submissions, new software) can be voted on to elect new source code
// Publicly Verifiable Proof of Storage //
Inputs X and Y are hashed together to produce a digest
Input X can be a message M or an encryption of message M; K1(M) = C1
Input Y is the randomly generated challenge string
The proof is when the hash of X and Y produce a digest with an output of zeroes I.E. 00000000000
A storer must find an input Y that satisfies a digest requirement of a string of zeroes I.E. 0000000000 by randomly generating numbers to use as input Y.
The proof of storage is a proof of work on information. The information must be stored to perform work with it. The storage of the information can be easily proved by checking that the requirement of a string of zeroes was satisfied.
This proves the storage of information over a period of work rather than over a period of time.
If you don't have skills in mathematics, logic, or computer code you can still contribute by submitting valuable information to Nemesis once the project has started.
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Sounds like it should work, although the only people that could check would be those that have the information in the first place.
Yes, the other miners who are already storing the information. |
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The publicly verifiable POS I proposed will work. it proves storage of a message over a period of work, rather than over a period of time.
I.E. this message was stored while 100382 hashes were performed with random numbers.
Ideally, it will be implemented with a cryptographic hash function that has a high (time/work) ratio to isolate the storage portion of the process.
I.E. this message was stored while (2870432 hashes were performed) * (1 second / .01 hashes) = 287043200 seconds
I'll try and find out if a strong hash function like this exists. It probably isn't necessary I just figured it would be nice if everyone didn't have to purchase specialized hashing hardware like ASIC miners in order to efficiently store information. Obviously, its not worth trading security for this.
Maybe a better way to propose this question is this: is there a hash function that is unaffected by CPU processing power/speed?
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The breakthrough we've all been waiting for
(Publicly verifiable proof of storage BECAUSE I'M A SUPERFREAK)
Inputs X and Y are hashed together to produce a digest
Input X can be a message M or an encryption and key of message M
Input Y is the randomly generated challenge
The proof is when the hash of X and Y produce a digest with an output of zeroes I.E. 00000000000
A storer must find an input Y that satisfies a digest requirement of a string of zeroes I.E. 0000000000 by randomly generating numbers to use as input Y.
The proof of storage is a proof of work on information. The information must be stored to perform work with it. The storage of the information can be easily proved by checking that the requirement of a string of zeroes was satisfied.
The storer can lie about the hash, making one up if the checker doesn't have the information the storer has to make sure that the hash is really produced by that data, right? Not if the network of miners are the ones checking that the work was performed and at least 51% agree on what the message was. Its the same function as Bitcoin's proof of work hash except performed on a message with utility rather than a random string. The only difference is the being hashed is randomly encrypted rather than simply using a random string of numbers. Of course someone has to have the message to check that it is being stored by someone else. (Message ### challenge) = 00000000000001 If someone produces a challenge and claims it works, but everyone says "hey i tried your challenge with the message u claimed it worked for and it totally didn't work" then everyone rejects that falsely produced challenge. It is very easy to check which allows everyone to check the validity of a solution |
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The breakthrough we've all been waiting for
(Publicly verifiable proof of storage)
Inputs X and Y are hashed together to produce a digest
Input X can be a message M or an encryption and key of message M
Input Y is the randomly generated challenge
The proof is when the hash of X and Y produce a digest with an output of zeroes I.E. 00000000000
A storer must find an input Y that satisfies a digest requirement of a string of zeroes I.E. 0000000000 by randomly generating numbers to use as input Y.
The proof of storage is a proof of work on information. The information must be stored to perform work with it. The storage of the information can be easily proved by checking that the requirement of a string of zeroes was satisfied.
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First, I don't think you've solved the original problem with proof of storage that I mentioned. Anyone who wants to verify that the miner has a copy of the information must have the same information. If you have solved this, please explain.
Second, you haven't solved the illegal content problem. Governments will try to shut it down because there is illegal content on there, even if people can choose not to view it. (although no content should be illegal anyway...)
A more concise response to your first question... Yes, someone has to store the information to prove that someone else is storing it. However, 100000000000 servers can have their storage of information checked against 1 single storage. This is a very huge solution to a problem. Its hard for me to even hold all the elements in my head. You have to draw out a diagram of how the information moves through a path of servers and returns to the original server to see what the communication complexity is like. If you can tell me how to post pictures on this forum I will post a picture of my diagram. (referring to privately verified POS) I will try to think of another way to do POS that wouldn't involve sending the entire message M around, in order to try to reduce communication complexity. (publicly verified POS, shown later) |
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A decision by the feds to outlaw the mining of Nemesis will only result in a derivation of the game theory gap concept. That is: there will be an equilibrium between prices where mining costs say $5 per coin and the coins sell for $20 each (just an example)
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First, I don't think you've solved the original problem with proof of storage that I mentioned. Anyone who wants to verify that the miner has a copy of the information must have the same information. If you have solved this, please explain.
Second, you haven't solved the illegal content problem. Governments will try to shut it down because there is illegal content on there, even if people can choose not to view it. (although no content should be illegal anyway...)
I'm glad someone is checking my work! 1 - You were correct that I had not "solved" POS in the traditional CS definition of the word at this point! There was a better solution than privately verifiable POS. It was publicly verifiable POS. Publicly verifiable POS allowed the complexity of the POS protocol to be sufficiently reduced to a single hash. 2 - Since Nemesis is hosted by an anonymous distributed network of miners, the government can try and shut it down, but they will have a very hard time. I am looking to the community for more feedback, input, and ideas, but I have posted my own belief of how the problem can be minimized. Obviously, there is a lot of work needed to be done creating and implementing the filters. For publicly verifiable POS, you break the message up into blocks and create a challenge (another block of data) to go with each message block. Performing a hash of a corresponding message block and challenge block produces an outcome say a string of zeros 00000000. You can basically ask a person claiming to store the message by sending them a challenge block and asking them to produce the correct answer of hashing it with the desired message block. You can change up your challenge blocks (even throw in a few the won't produce a string of zeros 1101011111) to verify that the storer is actually storing that portion of the message. |
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If you're suggesting a proof-of-storage mechanism, it's not going to work.
Enlighten me on proof of storage I've never heard of it. I don't think thats what I'm proposing. Proof of storage is basically where you would be paid for storing information, rather than doing work. My first priority is a crypto ledger that replaces the role of government money and government intellectual property. Proof of storage looks pretty awesome, I wasn't sure it existed, but I think it could be a good piece of the puzzle. Thank you. You should be credited for your submission So why can't it work? Could the proof of storage, be an encrypted message, where the sender sets the price? Only the sender can decrypt for free. Everyone else has to pay with POW, or POStake. It can't work because there's no easy way to verify it. Look at Bitcoin's proof of work. It's very hard to find a block, because it takes a ridiculous number of hashes to do so on average, but it takes only one hash to verify that someone has a correct block. Similarly, proof of storage would have to be the same way, that is, easy to verify. However, how do you do it? If you just ask for a hash of the data the node is being paid for storing, then that node can just store the hash of the data and keep getting paid. The only way to verify that a node is storing something is to have the data yourself and have that node send it to you, every byte, and compare it against what you have. Therefore, you have to do the same work as the node to verify the node is doing what it's supposed to. proof of storage is definitely doable. It is only a matter of deciding whether to make it privately verifiable or publicly verifiable. I had previously proposed a privately verifiable POS system. I removed it from the thread to save readers time when I came up with a better publicly verifiable POS system. Here's a paper on publicly verifiable POS (it will make your eyes bleed): <http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~ateniese/papers/pos.pdf> |
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there are some really good innovations out there that need funding!!
<https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252564.msg3531733#msg3531733>
Proof of Storage is the next great innovation in the crypto economy. It is analogous to proof of work. Consider how bitcoin unlocked your computer's processor as a money making device, but it left your hardware's potential locked up. Proof of storage will allow for mass storage of information in a block chain that will become a "timeline of claims." It will allow for the replacement of the USPTO the way bitcoin replaced the need for the Federal Reserve.
Please consider funding this project.
Nemesis is a crypto anarchist cipher-space hosting corporation. It uses an algorithm to continuously generate and sell a fixed number of type A shares through a proof of work equilibrium. Type B shares are continuously generated and sold via a proof of storage equilibrium.
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I like this project a lot. I want one of these.
Can I make a recommendation? You will get more views if you put updates as a reply instead of editing your original post
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A Proposed Solution to the Illegal Content Problem- someone will submit something stupid to Nemesis
- hopefully it won't get stored long term but we have to be willing to face a reality where it will
- giving someone the authority to censor Nemesis' information would completely undermine the entire concept
- Nemesis will not censor its content but it will arrange them into different levels of filters
- assume there are 5 levels that look something like this:
- level one: comparable to google's safe search, no explicit content (PG)
- level two: profanity included (PG 13)
- level three: violence included (PG 13)
- level four: sexually explicit content included (R)
- level five: everything included (illegal)
this way, someone can view the content they want to see without being forced to assume an ethical or legal risk I wish we didn't have to worry about someone submitting illegal content but its best to be prepared for it to happen
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What on earth is this?
The result of too much acid? This is the result of rejecting your prescribed role in society. Imagine finding out you have great capabilities with logic and creativity, but your memory isn't that good. You do a little better than average in school because your grades are mostly affected by your memory. You invent great things only to learn that invention is not rewarded in today's society, so you decide to invent a way to get paid for your inventions. This is one of the most interesting ideas I've seen on here in a long time. We shall watch your career with great interest  thank you |
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Some people have come to believe that owning bitcoins is the same as owning "a piece of the internet." Don't fall victim to this propaganda. Bitcoin is M1 pure currency. The service provided by Bitcoin is a transaction system of credits, that is all. There are a few neat features but it is fundamentally an unbacked currency. Bitcoin is pure currency while Nemesis is a cipher-space hosting corporation.
Nemesis is backed by information, and the demand for viewing that information. While Bitcoin may not be traditionally fiat because the amount of coins in the original Bitcoin system is limited, there is nothing preventing people from printing as many Bitcoin systems as they want. The only non fiat part of Bitcoin is the mining network. Nemesis retains these non fiat aspects and adds non fiat information. Yes, the information can be infinitely reproduced, but the generation of new, useful information is rooted in the logic and creativity of mankind. If the logic and creativity of mankind were infinite we wouldn't be humans.
I don't want to dog Bitcoin. I respect the developers and the breakthroughs of Satoshi. It has done a great job paving the way of the future. They built a great infrastructure that Nemesis will utilize too (wallets, anonymity, demand, lots of people understanding the abstract concept, mining networks).
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The official Bitcoin tree is on github.com
The blockchain has been used before to store little amount of information (like some leaked data - wikileaks data). But of course storing data on the blockchain bloats it to an undesired extent (since we are talking about BIG amounts of data here ...) this will be your hardest problem to solve. Anonymity is another beast, but you can always relay on third party networks like TOR (The Onion Router).
I've made a solution to this problem using proof of storage. It isn't perfect yet because the algorithm needs to be formalized and refined to remove redundant steps. Basically, I split the mining networks into two networks: one to do proof of work and prevent double spending and another to do proof of storage and handle the large amounts of data and information. I will repost the proof of storage concept in a few days/weeks. basically, when the time is right. |
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I can also imagine this future, but to be honest, Silicon Valley was a nice place at the eighties, when the most disruptive technologies (now obsolete) where being created there.
I don't know if you are looking for investment or what, but considering your views, SV is too mainstream IMHO, you will have to go more underground.
Anyway, I really like your idea.
I've been considering what you are saying, I was being a little impulsive when I said I was going to the Valley. I was drawn to Silicon because I think I could find people with the CS skills to help, people who have experience, and people with the desire to bring a new concept to life. Also, it would be easier to explain to my parents why I'm putting my degree on hold. I'm reconsidering. I would prefer to get this project made over the net. The internet is also a good place to find people with CS skills. I'm serious about making Nemesis. Do you want to help? We need programmers, miners for a launch network, people with experience streamlining algorithms, encryption experts, etc. I foresee the languages used as C++, Ruby, and some Python. Remaining anonymous will be your decision and responsibility. I would recommend remaining anonymous. Someone may write a virus to launch. I have not retained my anonymity through this process, but would recommend staying anonymous. From my understanding, Bitcoin is limited to a M1 pure currency because adding information to the block chain increased the amount of memory required to perform the proof of work. This assumption needs to be proved. I have not read Bitcoin's source code yet, if someone can link it here that would be awesome. One decision that will need to be made is whether or not Nemesis should actively mask its users IP addresses. I think this has a current technological limit because anonymizing software typically slows down the rate of data transfer. If one wants to upload trade secrets or copyrighted material anonymously, one could potentially use a public library. Helpful Skills- C++
- Ruby
- Python
- Java
- Algorithms
- Encryption
- Mathematics
- Game Theory
- Experience establishing anonymizing networks and software
- Asic Miners
- Storage Miners
- Creativity and Logic
- Anonymity
Compensation- everyone will be compensated for their submissions
- this is one of the basic premises of Nemesis
- when you submit information (programs) to Nemesis, you will receive coins specific to your submission
- these coins will be valued via supply and demand by the free market and an equilibrium of the proof of storage network the same way bitcoin prices are at equilibrium with its proof of work network (miners)
- supply of coins specific to your submission is limited, although someone can resubmit your submission, they cannot get the coins for the original submission
- the more valuable the market considers your work, the more your coins will be worth
Turning Your Submission into Nemesis' Source Code- Source code will be elected by "votes"
- voting will not follow an election cycle, they will be static and constant votes
- the owner of the coins for a submission will receive one vote per coin
- the source code with the most outstanding votes is elected as the source code
- by having a vote in Nemesis, you are effectively a voting "Nemesis board member"
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Silicon Valley ? Not a nice place for such a disruptive concept IMHO. Good luck anyway  thank you. If you like change, free markets, and adequate compensation of the fittest then Nemesis is your friend. Regulation of business will be performed by algorithms, math, and the people, rather than government. Enforcement of Anti-trust law on Nemesis by the Feds will be *intractable*, but there should be ample competition stemming from the open source movement. I see a future where most communities own a 3D printer. Rather than going to Wal-Mart, people will access designs for chairs, tables, cutlery, plates, and guns through Nemesis and print their own. Industry will be transformed, but not destroyed. |
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vintagetrex - I haven't been able to digest all that you're saying but I think you need to look at how to build this system on top of the existing blockchain, either with MasterCoin or something similar.
Thank you for the lead. I believe in two types of inherent value: networked people and networked information. The internet does both of these. You are absolutely right. I am looking into doing exactly what you suggested. Update: I looked into this and I don't think it will work well. Bitcoin is too limited when it comes to storing information. Bitcoin will not take the form of a unified information system. At best it will have a few information submissions backed by a Mastercoin/altcoin. Also, I am unhappy with how changes are made to bitcoin. One reason why it won't work well is because anybody who submits an invention and gets to make their own rules, will probably give oneself all coins associated with the invention, rather than a set amount and allowing the market to make an equilibrium on the coins via POS |
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