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101  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 08:26:40 PM
First of all noone can spend its balance twice, peers won't generate such blocks nor they accept them.

The goal of 1/10th rule is to protect merchants in situation when they don't see some transactions that can be confirmed and lead to cancellation a transaction accepted by a merchant.  The goal is achieved by creating necessity to send at least 10 transactions before attempting a double-spending.  If a merchant sees at least 1 of these transactions they can refuse to sell goods.  Odds that all 10 transactions won't reach a particular merchant are negligibly small.  The network helps to protect merchants by refusing to confirm transactions that violate the 1/10th rule.  If someone sends 2 transactions (first to themselves and second to a merchant) the merchant will wait a little bit longer before getting the money if the first transaction is confirmed in the first place.  This looks like a violation of the rule, but it's completely non-critical.
102  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 03:57:55 PM
it's not clear why...

if 2 * 1/10th are deducted then he violated the 1/10th per day rule... so one of the tx should have been ignored

also, if instead of buying one thing, he buys 19 things, and the merchants are not connected between them, 20 * 1/10th would be deducted. Except he only has 10/10ths. That's a double spend.

Nothing bad will happen if someone spends more than 1/10th of the balance.  The rule is set to avoid risk of spending more than 100% of coins.

Merchants don't need to be connected each other.  They need to be connected to the network.
103  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 03:54:39 PM
So, you don't really mean to limit special accounts with transactions summing up to 0.1 of it's balance / 24h? Or do you mean that 1 transaction gets confirmed, and the rest will wait in mempool, getting confirmed one by one every 24 hours?

Awaiting transactions will be confirmed one by one.
104  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 01:39:42 PM
Then whats the point? Without the ability to take on the status quo, this will be just another pump and dump scamcoin bullshit.

Nxt requires 10 times less bandwidth and storage.  It uses signing algorithm which is faster than Bitcoin's one.  Thus it can scale to a higher degree than Bitcoin can.  There is no an implemented decentralized solution of the VISA volume problem yet.  Should we sit and do nothing waiting for it?
105  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 01:31:03 PM
This VISA scale thing should belong to other thread, if you don't mind.

Handling large transaction volumes aren't a concern for you?  Oh dear....

I meant you shouldn't derail this thread.
106  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 01:28:50 PM
And what if the first transaction isn't confirmed prior to that message?

It will be listed in the unconfirmed transactions.  Merchants will see it and refuse to sell you anything more expensive than 1/10th minus that transaction.
107  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 01:25:38 PM
This is not applied to Nxt because it uses accounts, not inputs.  A well-connected merchant will see most of the transactions, for a double-spending attack to succeed at least 10 of 11 transactions must be lost.
Ok, which step won't work?
1) I have that special account
2) I send 0.1 of my balance to a merchant, to buy something digital.
3) the merchant can't wait for a confirmation, because this is the point - not to wait.
4) for better safety the merchant resends the transaction to as many peers as possible (btw, he would do that anyway) and delivers me the purchase.
5) i know, that there are many miners on the network, which will gladly accept a doublespend if it includes greater fee. They are not malicious, just a bit greedy.
6) state of my account is still unchanged, because it can only change when a block is found. My client is modified and it allows me to send doublespends. Only one 1/10 transaction can be included in a block by the network. So I send another 1/10 transaction, this time with higher fee, to my another account.
7) one of greedy miners accepts the second transaction and includes it in a block.
Doublespend is successfull )

Not really Smiley

2 * 1/10th will be deducted from your balance (2 NXT if you had 10 NXT).  1 NXT will go to your other account and 1 NXT to the merchant.
108  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 01:22:44 PM
Surely all you are doing is reducing the risk of double spends to 1/10th of the account value, you aren't actually removing the risk of one happening, just the benefit if it does?

Reducing risk to 1/zillionth is the same as removing it.
109  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 01:21:08 PM
What prevents:
1] Initiate first part of double-spend attack
2] Become special account
3] Use the account for instant transaction

The merchant will accept the second transaction, because I am a 'special' account, but the first transaction is also out there waiting to be confirmed.

If the first transactions is confirmed prior to the message of becoming a special account (or in the same block), then amount you can play with will be lowered.

If your account becomes "special" in the first place, then your transaction won't be included into a block until it fits 1/10th rule.  Merchants will see it and act accordingly.
110  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 12:05:10 PM
This VISA scale thing should belong to other thread, if you don't mind.
111  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 12:03:10 PM
This is not applied to Nxt because it uses accounts, not inputs.  A well-connected merchant will see most of the transactions, for a double-spending attack to succeed at least 10 of 11 transactions must be lost.
112  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 09:48:14 AM
A couple of fancy new features aren't going to break that mould....

Agree, but services built around these features will do.  Let's continue this discussion in half a year when we see decentralized exchanges and merchants accepting instant transactions.
113  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 09:40:50 AM
Address length - 8 B (max 20 chars in human-readable notation)
So there going to be 264 possible addresses? Isn't it too few? Let's imagine your currency won the widest possible adoption and everybody (7*109 users) on the planet uses it, and has private keys for 100 addresses (that's the minimum amount in bitcoin, actually we should consider much greater number). In that case, from each individual's point of view, collisions are still unlikely. But in general they are more than likely.

There are 2^256 possible addresses, the rest 192 bits are not used at the moment.  In future we may decide to use next 64 bits to extend visible part of an address, then all existing addresses that are 20 chars long now will become 40 chars long.  Right now if someone finds an address with the same 64 bits they won't be able to send transactions.


Another question - why coins are going to be indivisible? If that's just UI limitation, how divisible they are going to be by protocol?

It's not very convenient to have a lot of decimal places in my opinion.  The current version of the protocol supports only 2^32 numbers, but in the future it can be changed.  Centralized exchanges can use fractional numbers to track user balances and round amounts upon withdrawal.
114  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 09:26:21 AM

I can't open this link, HTTP Error 403.
115  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [Nxt] Instant transactions with guaranteed confirmation on: October 23, 2013, 09:23:55 AM
Instant means not waiting at all.

Instant transactions will be implemented after the Messaging feature.  That is how it will work:
1]  You publish on the blockchain a message saying that your account becomes a special account.
2]  You use the account for instant transactions.
3]  At some point you decide to empty the account, so you publish a message saying that the account becomes an ordinary one.
4]  Now you can't use instant transactions and have to wait for 1440 blocks (~24 hours) to withdraw all the coins.

You can send 1/10th of the balance a zillion times, but all the transactions except one of them won't be included into a block.  The odds that a peer will see only 1 transaction are negligibly small, if a merchant notices other transactions that exceed the daily limit they will not sell you anything.
116  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 07:02:48 AM
sorry I am missing something here so that 1500 USD worth of btc that people used to get NXT cost no electricity?

No, the point is that Nxt doesn't require electricity to be mined.
117  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 23, 2013, 07:00:54 AM
$1500 to $2M in 6 months just isn't going to happen, you have some sound idea's, and the concept is interesting, but there is nothing here that gives Nxt the potential for an investment increase of 2666% per annum in the first year...nothing.

There is one thing here that gives Nxt the potential.  I do write the code instead of talking how it should be written.  I mean Bitcoin improvement process, which is so slow mainly due to necessity to co-ordinate work of all core developers.  Also, Nxt will be the first currency implementing colored coins and other advanced features.  Anything that comes to the market later will have to work very hard to catch up with the leader.

P.S.  Look at some useless Bitcoin forks, they jumped from 0 to hundreds thousands dollars in a few months.
118  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 22, 2013, 10:33:54 PM
The instant transaction are a very big advantage over bitcoin but I think the price stability is very important too. Do you have some plan for that?

Yes, I expect stable growth.  /joke

Colored coins + Messaging let to easily run USD-NXT gateways.  Merchants can ask dollars but customers will pay with nxts.  Gateway owners are the only ones who will have problems but it's their business.
119  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 22, 2013, 10:19:43 PM
I had the initial guess that you may be the same Satoshi, but I usually do not express my thoughts Wink

I'm not Satoshi.  Hell, I would say this in any case!
120  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin on: October 22, 2013, 08:23:20 PM
No, I'm not him Smiley

P.S.  Of course, I would say this in any case  Cheesy
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