I think big money is waiting come in.  Question is what will btc have to fall to before they will start buying?

You know why bitcoin cannot go mainstream? Because of cryptocurrency fragmentation. Bobby Lee is an example of a person causing that. Bitcoin needs leadership in pushing services focus on bitcoin for mainstream and Bobby lee showed he is the worst person for that.

I'm not necessarily saying it's different this time. But you can't exactly say with any amount of certainty that it'll keep going up indefinitely. Just because Bitcoin has always stayed above the previous ATH doesn't mean that it always will. It is still a new technology and has a very real chance of failing in the future. It is code. No code is perfect nor unbreakable.

The point is, yes I'm trolling! But only because you (the permabull, not YOU specifically) think that any argument you don't agree with is just trolling, when in fact both sides are just stating their respective opinions. Since you nor anyone else on this forum knows FOR SURE what the future holds for Bitcoin, I don't think it's fair that you guys say without doubt, that Bitcoin is too big to fail and will make millionaires out of all who share your belief.

If everyone is making money, then no one is making money!

Well, sure! To someone who bought at 4 digits, there would be a bit of bias there.


Fair enough!
I'll try to compile my lists of data and post it up


That isn't how market capitalization works, besides, when there are indeed 1M users then maybe it'll be worth more.
Bitcoin is a terrible store of value except when it's rising. If you were one of the unlucky saps that bought at $1200 where would you be now? You either sold in which case you aren't storing anything, or you are down 60%. I just don't see how that is a good store of value.

Oh maybe you meant a good store of value for those who got in earlier than most???

What you are asking here is for people to increase artificial deficiency.
At first, bitcoin is already strongly plagued by artificially created deficiency. There are already loads of people who wish to get very wealthy by doing absolutely no work, and just by holding.
In the perspective of what is good for society, this is not good, because it will reward those who are greedy and lazy. And in the perspective of an investor, it's not good because price driven up by artificial deficiency is extremely fragile, and it will eventually suffer a very rapid decline.

lol Yep! At that time, it was worth between $5-9.99. Now it may be worth a little more, perhaps $25-50, or maybe $10-35... This is not my own sentiment. This is based on actual use and not the speculative demand.
As a side note; The mining difficulty is based on speculative demand too. I don't care what a miner thinks he deserves for a Bitcoin because he decided to start mining late. If the price hadn't risen (from speculative demand) then there wouldn't be so many miners pumping the difficulty up, and in turn, these prices would not be expected for a mined coin. It's a vicious cycle, but the fundamentals simply do not support this price. Get rich quick boys do.

There are many Chinese bitcointalk members. I think many of them would like this idea.

As soon as they make a frictionless way to send USD over the internet, it will be added to the cryptocurrency exchanges like cryptsy.com resulting in just an easier way to switch back and forth between currencies quickly. The USD will stop have the problem of an unlimited supply of them.

This will only help Bitcoin.

I think you've misinterpreted the business model for a decentralized Chinese exchange.  China has much more advanced Person-to-Person payment methods than the Western world.  People can make instant, irreversible transfers through Alipay for a few cents, and all you need to pay money to another person is their Alipay number. 

This "exchange" does not touch the fiat currency.  It is sent directly from buyer to seller.  The exchange simply matches buyers and sellers, and once a deal has been arranged they hold the BTC in escrow.  The BTC could be uploaded beforehand to save time, and be held on accounts, but this is not essential. 

When the exchange confirms that the BTC is in escrow, they provide the buyer with the seller's Alipay number.  The buyer now sends the money via Alipay to the seller.  Ideally, the buyer/seller are acting in good faith.  Once seller has received the money, the seller confirms this and the BTC is released to the buyer.

The exchange will be responsible for dispute resolution and will take a fee from the BTC being held.  The exchange will NOT be hosted in China, and therefore will not be breaking any laws.  It can be hosted in Australia for all it matters.  Just can't be on Chinese soil, since it would be shut down.

The "exchange" should record successful transactions and give +1 feedback for each successful transaction done by a buyer/seller.  Conversely, they should give -1 point for any party which enters a transaction and does not fulfill their end of the deal.  Fraudulent usage of the dispute system should result in a "Trade with caution" status on a user's profile.  Prevent users from signing up with the same Alipay number on multiple accounts.

Please. There is no need to involve the banking system in any way. It is a choice. When I eventually start selling I will simply stick a sign saying "Selling bitcoin" and my phone number down at the local grocer. Just a matter of time until we reach a critical mass of users for this to become practical.

Yawnnnnnn not again

FUD FUD FUD, and even if true, its what 3rd or 4th time in as many months? PBOC or those misrepresenting it are starting to look pretty ineffectual.

The mantra in China is the GOV can do anything. So the people stay in line

If I was PBOC, I would be getting my %$%T in order eg shut down FUD from 3rd party sources eg Caxin, or clear it up.

Else people of China are going to see for the first time in their memory that the Central Gov is clearly powerless.

Don't get me wrong I'm not China Gov bashing as thier Gov is in someways more effective than several alternatives.

Once this faith is lost its game over China Gov.

So the Central Gov needs to sort out PBOC which need to sort themselves and Media out.

They are really looking like ineffectual dicks.

thank you for making an effort to be polite, 'Luddite' remarks are not appreciated and I feel that you are better than that.
However, here is what I see...there are already PoS coins available on the toy exchanges, some of which will provide a much higher stake than the 10% which is being discussed. I don't see why PoS should be introduced into Bitcoin, when one can simply exchange their Bitcoin for say; Peercoin, or TEKCoin, hold it for a year until suitable stake is accumulated and cash it back to Bitcoin. I do also; however, agree that Bitcoin is evolutionary, and without trying to sound like one of the greedy large farming operations myself; you'd have a shitstorm from ASIC manufacturers if this was to go ahead.

So, may I ask, is the true purpose of PoS, to reduce electricity use? to bring down mining difficulty? and make the rich, richer?

I concede, it would do all of the these three things but really, none of these are in the best interest of Bitcoin. We would see value plummet and BTC price hit the floor.
If it were to be accomplished, it certainly should not be in the near future; having had only one block halving, in mining terms, we are still early adopters and Bitcoin is still very young. I feel we would be forcing our cryptocurrency to 'grow up' before it's time.

PoS? well maybe, yes, but only after all 21million coins have been mined. 

well mostly because of this:

Lets talk as miners then, as my very first posts on this forum concerned mining. Here is a photo of one of my three mining rigs. This open design rig has 6 x 5770 cards that hash at a total 0.98 MH/s performing altcoin scrypt-mining for renters. They pay me in bitcoin, which indeed subtracts from the altcoin economy and adds to our Bitcoin economy. These cards despite their age, mined tens of bitcoins for me back when BTCGuild was just getting started. I abandoned mining when SHA-256 ASICs arrived to begin the exponentially soaring difficulty that continues to this day. I did not then, and will not now pre-order ASIC rigs whose return on investment is so uncertain. I will migrate the litecoin-compatible scrypt-mining rigs to Vertcoin-compatible scrypt-N when scrypt-ASICS arrive this year. I will keep running those loved rigs for a long time when I move them to Colorado to heat my mountain home.



I ask you, as a small scale bitcoin miner, have you run the numbers to determine whether you would be better off simply holding bitcoin instead spending cash on  ASIC rigs?

But I think your main objection is belief that bitcoin values will drop if PoS is introduced into Bitcoin. In the best possible world, PoS adds great value to bitcoin as less of daily mining reward gets sold to pay for power and new rigs. Holders are motivated not to sell and that lifts prices. Interest will heighten, especially when 401-K investment funds observe that not only does bitcoin appreciate, it also pays high dividends.

Answer this question - how many coins did you spend on your mining operation in the past 12 months, including equipment, energy, labor, and everything else, and how many coins did you mine?

I would rather see a blend of PoW and PoS.

Use PoS to improve security while leaving
PoW that people are used to and trust.

lets take ABC Mining Farm (fictitious name) for example - to add PoS into the Bitcoin framework, you are not actually making it less worthwhile for ABC to exist, and build bigger datorhalls, but you are providing more of an incentive to those massive operations, to become bigger. This is already proved in my case above; massive fiat banking investors become richer, small investors become poorer (the financial divide becomes greater).

The only thing a PoS system in Bitcoin would do, is widen the gap.