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104
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / I Love Buying From Bitcoin-Accepting Merchants, But...
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on: April 17, 2014, 12:45:11 AM
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I love buying from Bitcoin-accepting merchants, but I would rather buy from Bitcoin-accepting merchants that pay their suppliers and employees in BTC. I know currently it is impossible for any business to operate totally in Bitcoin, but, for example, I would rather eat at a restaurant that pays each of its employees 50 dollars worth of BTC every month than one that instantly converts 100 percent of its BTC revenue to fiat. Coinmap.org is a good way to find businesses that accept BTC, but I would like to see a directory that distinguishes between businesses that convert 100 percent to fiat and those that use BTC to pay some of their costs. Making this information easily available to the Bitcoin community will provide an incentive for businesses to not convert 100 percent in order to attract more customers than their competitors that do.
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105
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Economy / Speculation / Re: rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)
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on: April 15, 2014, 12:07:50 AM
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So Reptillia is basing it as if Bitcoin will be the sole means of wealth transmission and currency, I am a bull to, but do not neccessarily agree with that premise, however I still will only re-evaluate my position and consider selling at around 20-30K, based on what the Crypto scene looks like then. I think both new and old players will innovate and take away a lot of the added value that bitcoin offers over our current financial system. EG if you can send Facebook dollars for free than the micro-payment argument for bitcoin is passe.
Even if Facebook dollars would be better for microtransactions, people would still want to hold their wealth in Bitcoin because it cannot be manipulated or confiscated by a central authority. No amount of branding by any corporation or government is ever going to overcome that fundamental advantage of Bitcoin. |
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106
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Economy / Speculation / Re: This is the easy part.
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on: April 14, 2014, 06:21:24 AM
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The best time to plant a tree is 30 years ago. The second best time is today. -Warren Buffet
The Oracle of Omaha. Beautiful really...I had not heard that particular quote..thank you. It is definitely not a Buffet quote. |
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108
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Economy / Service Discussion / Re: China's OKCoin Shut Down By Apr 14; Banking To Continue Via Mobile Phones
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on: April 11, 2014, 04:23:45 AM
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尊敬的OKcoin用户：
今日上午10时35分左右，OKCoin接到招商银行西二旗支行确切通知：应上级运营管理部的要求，招商银行将暂停为OKCoin提供入金业务服务。随后，OKCoin管理层与银行反复沟通后，我们立即发出此份公告。
与银行沟通详情如下：
招商银行西二旗支行接到上级部门通知，要求暂停OKCoin在招行西二旗支行的入金（充值）业务，停止入金限期为4月14日。
通知确实为口头通知，支行并未接到任何书面文件。
关于银行卡充值暂停详情：
OKCoin将于下周一（4月14号）正式停止使用招商银行西二旗支行账户充值，其他银行暂不受影响，用户提现一切正常，有最新消息OKCoin将在第一时间发布。
坏消息后面往往是好消息：
虽然政策调整对国内比特币市场有一定的影响，OKCoin作为比特币投资者关注和信赖的专业交易平台，我们一直在未雨绸缪的准备各类突发事件的应对方案，尽可能保护投资者的利益不受影响。对于此次央行的政策调整，我们决定采用以下预案：
正式推出全新的充值方式——OKCoin充值码充值业务。
为了方便广大用户充值和提现，OKCoin将在银行关闭入金业务的同时推出充值码功能，用户可以将人民币提现成为充值码，然后将该充值码转让给OKCoin的其他用户用来充值。用户提现成充值码0手续费，使用充值码充值也是0手续费。OK充值码可以在OKCoin的用户之间自由交易流通，充值、提现快速到账。
充值码分为A、B两段，A段主要用于用户查询充值码的有效性和所储存的金额，B段用于充值。只有同时拥有A、B两段即可充值成功。人民币提现到充值码时同样也会生成A、B两段充值码。
OKCoin海外站旨在为广大国内比特币投资者提供更稳定、更安全投资环境的交易平台。敬请期待。
OKCoin海外站旨在为广大国内比特币投资者提供更稳定、更安全投资环境的交易平台，是与现有国内网站相关联的基础上，为广大比特币爱好者提供一个周到、完善、安全的海外服务的全新交易平台。
海外站的建设正在紧张进行中，将很快与广大用户见面。关于海外站的相关服务以及用户教程，我们会在网站上线后提供给大家。
最后，再一次对长期支持我们、关心我们、与我们共同成长的小伙伴们道一声感谢，我们坚信这一次政策性波动并不会使中国比特币走向衰落，而是对发展良莠不齐的比特币交易平台的一次检验，正是你们的信任，才有OKCoin的今天！也希望我们能继续携手前进，创造属于中国比特人的金融神话！向世界证明中国不仅有金条大妈，还有坚定的比特高富帅！OKCoin一直都在！
OKCoin运营部
2014/04/11
press statement released several minutes ago. essentially, along the lines of huobi's announcement; - ordered shut down by apr 14 (sooner than huobi's apr 18) - oral communication; no paper wording ok has decided to solve the issue by;
- introducing mobile phone deposits/withdrawals. i doubt this is a workable solution to those outside of mainland china. within china; mobile phone prepaid credit may be turned into fiat, and used as fiat, quite fluidly. as a lawyer however, i know this solution will not last since the exchange of virtual "value" for real-world goods was banned in earlier years in the aftermath of world of warcraft gold trade. - moving offshore to re-introduce traditional banking facilities. currently in testing phase; details to be announced at a later date. this news means people may benefit from launching usd/eur fiat <=> chinese prepaid phone services in the next days. Hilarious. And awesome. |
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109
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Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin adoption slowing; Coinbase + Bitpay is enough to make Bitcoin a fiat
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on: April 11, 2014, 03:05:33 AM
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[snip]
Notice in Bitcoin the new coin production schedule is designed such that rate of increase is declining and the total supply is designed to never exceed 21 million BTC coins. However, IMO that is myopic because the mining is already centralized and if the government takes over, there is no limit to what they might do with the protocol. I argued that more upthread or in the past, where I said once the masses dominate the coin userbase, they really don't care as long as they get their debt and Walmart goodies.
Bitcoin mining is global. If somehow the government took over the major miners in the United States and forced them to change the protocol, wouldn't that just create a forked coin which people could choose not to use and instead keep using the real Bitcoin which is still mined throughout the rest of world and by smaller miners in the United States? For your scenario to play out, a total government takeover of the Internet (far more severe than the Great Firewall) and well as blanket observation and control of all commerce would be required. Even if it were technically possible for this regime to carry out this kind of extreme totalitarianism, I do not think it has the political capital and economic resources to do it. Nor do I think they are stupid enough to try. Power will adapt to Bitcoin, not destroy it. Circle CEO apparently disagrees and says the G20 will cooperate. I have also provided citations upthread about G20 declarations on their plans to cooperate. Two or three pools control > 50% of the hash rate. That isn't the entire internet. That is only three businesses that have to be raided.
The masses won't care. Who is going to support your fork? You won't even have a majority of mining hash rate.As for individual miners switching to another pool upon that event, note one miner in East Washington had already 6 - 7% of the total Bitcoin network hash rate and is aiming to reach 10%. ASICs concentrate mining power and this will continue to get worse. The one that is modified by government mandate to issue additional coins and have white/blacklists would be the fork, even if it has more hashing power, not the original Bitcoin protocol. Why do you think everyone would adopt the government-mutilated fork? People can still use Litecoin and Dogecoin even though they have less hashing power. In those cases, they are the clones; in the case you describe, the government version, even with more hashing power, would be the massively inferior imitator. Because the masses don't care. They shop at websites, not via a downloadable Bitcoin client. The Amazons, Walmarts, etc.. will follow the government's regulation to send transactions only through regulated pools. I had made this point in great detail at the Transactions Withholding Attack. It is not surprising to me that the Bitcoin diehards refused to accept my point. You are free to think I am wrong, and even try to succinctly refute my point here. But let's please not repeat ad nauseum that entire debate again in this thread. I don't have time and it will muck up this thread with too much extraneous tangential discussion. That thread is still open to debate it further there. I would prefer to keep this thread more high-level in scope so that it is digestible. I think the following point about 'dependency' applies to my point about the masses above. I hope that as a society we can break away from the dependency before the system collapses on top of us. The risk of dependency is just too great under this form of financial system. I hope we can change it before it mutates...
I do not refuse to accept your point. Your predictions may very well come true, but I think that it is not a certainty as you make it seem. Unlike China, the United States actually has to pass regulations through a legislative process. I am well aware of the government's disregard for the Constitution, but public opinion does carry some weight. Congress's approval rating is 10 percent, Obama is despise by more than half the country, and the Federal Reserve/Goldman/Morgan is justifiably reviled by powerful elements on the left and the right. How will the government sell the idea that an amazing new free-market technology that is generating jobs, innovation, and wealth should be taken over by the hated banking sector? Imagine if the government tried to legislate that Tesla be taken over by GM, or that Netflix be taken over by Blockbuster. |
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110
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Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin adoption slowing; Coinbase + Bitpay is enough to make Bitcoin a fiat
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on: April 11, 2014, 02:12:09 AM
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[snip]
Notice in Bitcoin the new coin production schedule is designed such that rate of increase is declining and the total supply is designed to never exceed 21 million BTC coins. However, IMO that is myopic because the mining is already centralized and if the government takes over, there is no limit to what they might do with the protocol. I argued that more upthread or in the past, where I said once the masses dominate the coin userbase, they really don't care as long as they get their debt and Walmart goodies.
Bitcoin mining is global. If somehow the government took over the major miners in the United States and forced them to change the protocol, wouldn't that just create a forked coin which people could choose not to use and instead keep using the real Bitcoin which is still mined throughout the rest of world and by smaller miners in the United States? For your scenario to play out, a total government takeover of the Internet (far more severe than the Great Firewall) and well as blanket observation and control of all commerce would be required. Even if it were technically possible for this regime to carry out this kind of extreme totalitarianism, I do not think it has the political capital and economic resources to do it. Nor do I think they are stupid enough to try. Power will adapt to Bitcoin, not destroy it. Circle CEO apparently disagrees and says the G20 will cooperate. I have also provided citations upthread about G20 declarations on their plans to cooperate. Two or three pools control > 50% of the hash rate. That isn't the entire internet. That is only three businesses that have to be raided.
The masses won't care. Who is going to support your fork? You won't even have a majority of mining hash rate.As for individual miners switching to another pool upon that event, note one miner in East Washington had already 6 - 7% of the total Bitcoin network hash rate and is aiming to reach 10%. ASICs concentrate mining power and this will continue to get worse. The one that is modified by government mandate to issue additional coins and have white/blacklists would be the fork, even if it has more hashing power, not the original Bitcoin protocol. Why do you think everyone would adopt the government-mutilated fork? People can still use Litecoin and Dogecoin even though they have less hashing power. In those cases, they are the clones; in the case you describe, the government version, even with more hashing power, would be the massively inferior imitator. |
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111
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Economy / Speculation / Re: If China REALLY wanted to ban Bitcoin, it would be very apparent overnight
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on: April 11, 2014, 01:54:58 AM
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If you read between the lines, you'd have realized that the PBOC really does NOT like BTC at all. It has to do with the Central Communist Government's desire to centrally control their currency within their country. So, YES, the ban is REAL and will be coming down HARD.
I'm amazed at the denial. The PBOC has been issuing explicit anti-Bitcoin guidance for months now. They gradually restricted what Bitcoin exchanges could do, allowing an orderly shutdown. Bitcoin fanboys kept trying to interpret the orderly shutdown as "Bitcoin will not be stopped in China!". They were wrong. Now we're coming up on the shutdown deadline, and, unsurprisingly, people in China are selling Bitcoins.
As for it not being "apparent overnight", Bitcoin just dropped from $450 to $390 overnight. I have actually been surprised by this. I thought that they would be smart enough to realize that they should buy as many coins as the can while they still can, not sell at a loss because the government doesn't like it. It's not like that government can confiscate the coins or prevent people from cashing out outside the country. Why surprised? If suddenly no stores/ banks/ govts accept USD are you going to stock up on USD or are you going to dump it? The current Bitcoin situation is nothing like that. The purpose of Bitcoin was never to have banks and governments accept it, and more and more businesses are accepting it all the time (not in China, but in the rest of the world, which gives it ever increasing value). In China, it will be able to serve as a secure store of value and investment based on its use in the rest of the world. Anyone who thought Bitcoin was a good idea during the bubble and then changed his mind because the Chinese government came out against it, is an idiot. |
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112
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Economy / Speculation / Re: If China REALLY wanted to ban Bitcoin, it would be very apparent overnight
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on: April 11, 2014, 01:01:36 AM
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If you read between the lines, you'd have realized that the PBOC really does NOT like BTC at all. It has to do with the Central Communist Government's desire to centrally control their currency within their country. So, YES, the ban is REAL and will be coming down HARD.
I'm amazed at the denial. The PBOC has been issuing explicit anti-Bitcoin guidance for months now. They gradually restricted what Bitcoin exchanges could do, allowing an orderly shutdown. Bitcoin fanboys kept trying to interpret the orderly shutdown as "Bitcoin will not be stopped in China!". They were wrong. Now we're coming up on the shutdown deadline, and, unsurprisingly, people in China are selling Bitcoins.
As for it not being "apparent overnight", Bitcoin just dropped from $450 to $390 overnight. I have actually been surprised by this. I thought that they would be smart enough to realize that they should buy as many coins as the can while they still can, not sell at a loss because the government doesn't like it. It's not like that government can confiscate the coins or prevent people from cashing out outside the country. |
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113
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Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin adoption slowing; Coinbase + Bitpay is enough to make Bitcoin a fiat
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on: April 10, 2014, 10:54:01 AM
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I explained in great detail, that reasonable rates of decentralized debasement of the money supply is not deleterious for the productive people. Decentralized debasement actually can dilute the lazy large capitalists who intend to capture everything by riding stored capital, and productively transfer that capital in a competitive proof-of-work to the more productive knowledge capital producers. This is done at a very gradual rate so that money still retains a store-of-value quality as well. Bitcoin's debasement rate has been very high in recent years and still going at 11% per annum, yet the price appreciated due to influx of adoption. Would you mind explaining to a noob like me how Bitcoin is debased? Thx 2017 End BTC supply 15750000 - 2013 Start BTC supply 10500000 = 5250000 5250000 ÷ 2013 Start BTC supply 10500000 = 0.5, i.e. 50% increase in BTC supply in 4 years. 5250000 ÷ 4 ÷ 2013 Start BTC supply 10500000 = 0.125, i.e. 12.5% increase in BTC supply in 2013. 5250000 ÷ 4 ÷ (5250000 ÷ 4 + 2013 Start BTC supply 10500000) = 0.111, i.e. 11.1% increase in BTC supply in 2014. 5250000 ÷ 4 ÷ (2 x 5250000 ÷ 4 + 2013 Start BTC supply 10500000) = 0.100, i.e. 10.0% increase in BTC supply in 2015. 5250000 ÷ 4 ÷ (3 x 5250000 ÷ 4 + 2013 Start BTC supply 10500000) = 0.091, i.e. 9.1% increase in BTC supply in 2016. Notice in Bitcoin the new coin production schedule is designed such that rate of increase is declining and the total supply is designed to never exceed 21 million BTC coins. However, IMO that is myopic because the mining is already centralized and if the government takes over, there is no limit to what they might do with the protocol. I argued that more upthread or in the past, where I said once the masses dominate the coin userbase, they really don't care as long as they get their debt and Walmart goodies. Bitcoin mining is global. If somehow the government took over the major miners in the United States and forced them to change the protocol, wouldn't that just create a forked coin which people could choose not to use and instead keep using the real Bitcoin which is still mined throughout the rest of world and by smaller miners in the United States? For your scenario to play out, a total government takeover of the Internet (far more severe than the Great Firewall) and well as blanket observation and control of all commerce would be required. Even if it were technically possible for this regime to carry out this kind of extreme totalitarianism, I do not think it has the political capital and economic resources to do it. Nor do I think they are stupid enough to try. Power will adapt to Bitcoin, not destroy it. |
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117
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Economy / Speculation / Re: THE REAL FUTURE OF BITCOIN
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on: April 10, 2014, 04:38:40 AM
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Based on life experience, and logic, here is my prediction.
Bitcoin will eventually go to the moon, the big question is when. That I don't know. But I do know that it will happen within the next few years.
Why?
1. It has already been ruled that it is considered property. It is a recognized asset in the US.
2. ETFs are being formed and will be ready for Wall Street investors by the end of this year.
3. Have you ever seen Bitcoin billboards when driving around the highway? I have, people do take notice of these things.
4. Stanford Business School, the TOP Business School in America, has a professor as a board member. These Ivy League schools has huge influences.
5. Infrastructure is being set up, and a real eco-system will be in place by the end of this year.
6. If 10% of the America population, 30 million people, invested 100 bucks, that would be 3 Billion dollars into the market, that would drive the price WAY OVER the ATH, probably close to 10,000 each.
7. Google is going to integrate this with google wallet.
8. Ebay has recognized it by creating a category just for Bitcoins and other crypto currency
9. Paypal is working on integrating bitcoins into their system.
10. Developing countries TRUST bitcoins more than their own currencies.
Feel free to add to this list. It goes on forever, it goes to show that Bitcoin has a bright future. Anyone spreading negativity about it and saying it is dead in the near future has no idea what they are talking about. And if they can give a GOOD answer to this question they might convince me otherwise.
When was the last time, a technology, has caught the attention of all the governments in the world at the same time, that is not owned by any 1 party, and what is this? And how did it do?
I think a mere 300 million dollars invested into BTC would drive the price close to 10,000 because only a fraction of the coins in existence are for sale at price below 10,000. I know I will not sell below 10,000 except what I need for living expenses and maybe a small portion to trade with. I would like to hear some expert opinions on what percentage of coins are in long-term cold storage (will not be sold within one year no matter what the price). |
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119
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Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core (Bitcoin-Qt) 0.9.1 released - update required
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on: April 09, 2014, 06:02:20 AM
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How do I install this for Linux Mint? On the previous version there was just a bitcoin-qt file which I could click on and run. Now the extracted folder contains several files, none of which are executable. I am stupid and know almost nothing about using the terminal, compiling libraries, etc. Can someone give me a simple explanation please?
Please. Almost sounds like you've downloaded a source archive. Are you sure you've downloaded https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.1/bitcoin-0.9.1-linux.tar.gz , 36MB in size? I had a quick look at this archive and the executables appear to be there: bin/32/bitcoin-qt bin/64/bitcoin-qt The file I downloaded from your link and the previous link is 47.5 MB. I tried it again with your link, but same result. Bitcoin-qt is not an executable, it is a "shared library (application/x-sharedlib)". I have no program that can execute this file. Fuck. Why didn't they just make an "executable (application/x-executable)" file like version 0.8.5? |
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120
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Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner
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on: April 09, 2014, 05:46:13 AM
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Translation: Vlad was right and Bitcoin is very poorly distributed with the large majority of wealth in the hands of a few, thus making Bitcoin very much centralized and eerily similar to a Fiat 2.0.
That's just my guess of course and the true, freedom loving libertarians on this thread will surely delete this message.
Enjoy.
A guess how many people have more than 100 BTC? Not sure, I'd guess a few thousand. Max, 5,000 people. But as a %, the handful of people at the top who easily own at least 25%, has gone up exponentially given the fraction of supposed accounts on Gox. Look, I don't have a personal problem with it, you would expect that to be the case given bitcoin was so easy to mine for some 2 years but not many knew or believed in it. That very nature of the matter created the current distribution. With time it's possible that will change but right now the super rich are accumulating so that will further centralize the power of bitcoin in the hands of a few. I'm not sure it can ever be different [in the end] with any popular currency. If those coins were still on Gox then they won't have as many now either will they? I guess Gox might return some of them. Better yet, they should invest their holdings into new Bitcoin enterprises, or traditional businesses or philanthropic efforts, without converting to dollars. Pay people Bitcoin to do things. The Bitcoin super-rich can gain the tangible benefits of their wealth while distributing it to the wider population. If I had 100 million dollars worth of Bitcoin, I might buy my favorite local restaurant chain and pay all employees a portion of their salary in Bitcoin, offer discounts for Bitcoin-paying customers, source from suppliers that accept Bitcoin, sell Bitcoin at every location, etc. Hopefully the Bitcoin super-rich are smart enough to do things like this rather than just cash out for fiat. |
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