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BUMP
Perhaps the people name calling me a troll should take another look at Tradehill and ask the necessary questions about their operations. Missing $37,000 in first two months is hard to pull off without spectacular sloppiness.
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Tradehill does have a history of sloppiness: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31094.0;allPerhaps the people name calling me a troll should take another look at Tradehill and ask the necessary questions about their operations. Missing $37,000 in first two months is hard to pull off without spectacular sloppiness. |
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One more question for Jered:
Deposit USD with Dwolla -> Buy Bitcoin -> Sell Bitcoin -> Withdraw Pesos in Chile
How is this not money laundering?
Hi OrangeSun, There is nothing illegal about transferring money around the global for international business. The definition of money laundering is :"Money laundering is the practice of disguising the origins of illegally-obtained money. Ultimately, it is the process by which the proceeds of crime are made to appear legitimate." Since we are not engaged in illegal activities, and we are not trying to conceal the source of our funds, then we are not money laundering. For more info, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering Regards, Adam Adam, from the same wikipedia page: Structuring: Often known as "smurfing," it is a method of placement by which cash is broken into smaller deposits of money, used to defeat suspicion of money laundering and to avoid anti-money laundering reporting requirements. A sub-component of this is to use smaller amounts of cash to purchase bearer instruments, such as money orders, and then ultimately deposit those, again in small amounts.[4] Bitcoin can be considered a "Bearer Instrument". Seems like pretty weak sauce dude. Where's anything about anything Illegal which seems, accd to the (admittedly non-authoritative) Wikipedia, to be the defining element of money laundering? Insofar as 'bearer instruments', what's the distinction between the wire transfer or Dwolla, Bitcoin, or the Chilean peso withdrawals? I imagine that most everyone agrees that if there 'illegally obtained money' being moved around, the crime should be investigated and it's my guess and expectation that Tradehill would cooperate fully (probably it is in their TOS...I've forgotten.) I see nothing illegal about Tradehill's business, and the I know first hand that in the dealings I have had with them, there was nothing illegal on my end of things. I would say you are shooting blanks so far. Perhaps some high-powered para-legal could jump onto Wikipedia and straighten them out if they have got it wrong. Point isn't about my legal skills... point is that these guys are quoting wikipedia! I was being sarcastic by quoting it back. Anyways, we will never get the real answer till someone gets sued. So locking this thread. |
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Is this Senator Schumer?
Jered
Haha funny, not! You guys are quoting wikipedia instead of sharing some concrete legal details. So I will pull back and just ask one single question before I go to sleep: Jered and Adam, can you unequivocally claim that your set up to send money between multiple countries is 100% legal? Remember, this is a public forum so your answer will be stored here for ever, if you choose to ever answer my question! GN! |
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Are you trying to make a point, or are you just throwing out random irrelevant facts?
I guess I am still thinking aloud.. but it will really help if Adam or Jered can share some details about their legal agreements that allow them to be send money from one country to other, and still be perfectly legal. And why wouldn't it be?! I guess I am still used to the old thinking that you have to be a bank to send money internationally, and register with ton of different agencies. |
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Are you trying to make a point, or are you just throwing out random irrelevant facts?
I guess I am still thinking aloud.. but it will really help if Adam or Jered can share some details about their legal agreements that allow them to send money from one country to other, and still be perfectly legal. |
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One more question for Jered:
Deposit USD with Dwolla -> Buy Bitcoin -> Sell Bitcoin -> Withdraw Pesos in Chile
How is this not money laundering?
Hi OrangeSun, There is nothing illegal about transferring money around the global for international business. The definition of money laundering is :"Money laundering is the practice of disguising the origins of illegally-obtained money. Ultimately, it is the process by which the proceeds of crime are made to appear legitimate." Since we are not engaged in illegal activities, and we are not trying to conceal the source of our funds, then we are not money laundering. For more info, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering Regards, Adam Adam, from the same wikipedia page: Structuring: Often known as "smurfing," it is a method of placement by which cash is broken into smaller deposits of money, used to defeat suspicion of money laundering and to avoid anti-money laundering reporting requirements. A sub-component of this is to use smaller amounts of cash to purchase bearer instruments, such as money orders, and then ultimately deposit those, again in small amounts.[4] Bitcoin can be considered a "Bearer Instrument". |
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You don't have to file as a entity before you do business. You can simply be considered as a sole proprietorship (in the US), and that doesn't require filing any documents (in some states).
Sad troll OP is sad...
I know you can do a business without registering as long as you pay taxes on profit. But we are talking Bitcoins here. A personal bank accounts on behalf of a chilean company to sell Bitcoins... lawyers can make this look really shady in a court. PS: Don't use troll label so liberally. |
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One more question for Jered:
Deposit USD with Dwolla -> Buy Bitcoin -> Sell Bitcoin -> Withdraw Pesos in Chile
How is this not money laundering?
I agree bitcoin can be global, borderless. But exchanges will have to be LOCAL! International exchange accepting 22 currencies is hard to prove as a legal operation.
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OrangeSun, Using a personal bank account isn't illegal. When TradeHill proved to be a viable business I opened a business bank account. I started TradeHill as a sole proprietorship, I didn't register "TradeHill" until 8 days after we opened. I've done a little research and you are correct, I violated this law: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/648.990 This is obviously viewable by the public and I'm not hiding it. Here are the penalties: 648.990¹ Penalties (1) Violation of any of the provisions of this chapter is punishable by a civil penalty not exceeding $100. I accept full responsibility. I have no problem paying that fine in it's entirety. Jered Jered - thanks for answering this thread. Personal bank account / sole proprietorship is of course not a problem. Contractors all across the country do this. But all I am trying to say is that using personal bank accounts on behalf of a chilean company to sell Bitcoins... lawyers can make this look really shady in a court. |
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Hey guys, I am a Bitcoin skeptic and have been researching Mt Gox, KK Tibanne, and Mutum Siglum for past two weeks. I have discovered some serious credibility issues that the community needs to hear about.
Please allow me to share this!
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Hey guys, I am a Bitcoin skeptic and have been researching Mt Gox for past two weeks. I have discovered some serious credibility issues that the community needs to hear about.
Please let me out!
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People are using Mt. Gox, because... people are using Mt. Gox. The market got big because of few factors and now if you want to trade on a highly dynamic market, in real time, this is the place for that. But it's not the best for all. For example, here in Poland there is a far better exchange - Bitomat.pl (trading Polish zloty only). It's better, because it's totally free, and your wire money transfer is acknowledged within hours (sometimes even minutes) from sending. These transfers are also free in Poland. On the other hand, Bitmarket.eu has a different, less dynamic model. You can place offers just like on MtGox, but to exchange actual cash, you have to contact with the other party. This has several advantages, like more anonymity (only the other party knows your private details, you don't expose them to the site), faster first reaction (you don't have to wait for your funds to come up on the site to trade) and more control. It has some disadvantages as well - most importantly - you lose the "real-time" bit, because every trade needs to be handled manually (in terms of exchanging cash). There is also a risk (albeit a small one because of verification system, and soon - rating system) of a fraudulent seller/buyer, but in that case you can contact site support and we will help you. If you have other questions, feel free to ask. This is very helpful, thank you! Bitomat.pl sounds like everything one would need in an Exchange! One theory I have for the exchange size difference is that Mt. Gox seems focused on the US market, while all other exchanges are focused on European markets. US probably accounts for a lion's share of transactions in bitcoin economy. |
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Hey all, I found out about bitcoins last week and spent the whole long weekend reading up on it! Safe to say I am hooked on to the idea already!
Now I am trying to buy 20-25 coins just to play with, but I have a question: why is everyone using Mt. Gox? Even when others have better exchange rates? Is it a tradition / exchange's reputation thing?
Do you guys recommend bitmarket.eu exchange? The site looks nice... but I don't know anything else about it.
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Would you use facebook connect to register for a website which gives you free bitcoins?
Or would you prefer the website have it's own registration process?
I am new to and right now I have a whole 0.04 cents. So yeah, i will totally do it! |
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