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181  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 09:37:18 PM
Nobody ever spoke of a new retarget time, so it cannot be anything else than a bug of the new client.
Difficulty changed after 14 blocks instead of 36.
4 for 10mn target time ~= 28MH/s on the network. This is not possible.

I don't know how it's recalculated, but I believe it's always aiming for 10 minutes block time. Maybe it just needed another adjustment before it could get it right for the next change.

Diff retarget is supposed to happen after 36 blocks, or at block 20290+36 = 20326. It happened at block 20304, which is 14 blocks. Blocks were found every 5mn, if a retarget should have come sooner, it should have increase to 30, not go down all the way to 4.
Pray for it not to go down to 1 in 2 blocks (20318).

It happened at the next multiple of 36. That is, 564*36 blocks = 20304. It went down to 4 because it used the time from block 20268 to block 20304 as the basis for the diff calculation, and that was several days instead of the target 6 hours. The next one will go up.
182  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 09:29:19 PM
When somebody donates at least 0.01 CAT and I see everything works correctly I'll make a thread about my faucet - Catcoin Purrer

Whats the donation address?
183  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 09:23:35 PM
block target time 1 minute?Huh

That's the actual time? The target time is 10 minutes.
184  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 09:18:44 PM
Difficultly has been decreased to 4. Be prepared for the mass flood of miners.

Why did this happen? The net hashrate is that low?
185  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 02:47:47 AM
Quote
Your loyalty credits do not differentiate between Slow Loyal miners who get 3 blocks and Fast Hop miners who get 10 blocks. Every attempt to dodge that effect just makes it show up elsewhere.

Is this something I have said, or something you are assuming?

If a low hashrate loyal miner goes through a loyalty-supporting pool, and mines 0.054 coins during a particularly difficult time, the pool would indicate to him he has earned 0.054 coins plus 0.054 loyalty credits. A high hashrate loyal miner solo mines, and finds 10 blocks during a difficult time, and each time he found a block, he sees in his QT wallet, that he has gained 50 coins, plus 50 loyalty credits, for a total of 500 coins and 500 loyalty credits.

Now, the difficulty level goes way down, and it is easy to mine blocks. The low hashrate loyal miner continues mining through the pool, and he pretty quickly earns 0.054 coins and in the process extinguishes the 0.054 loyalty credits. A non-loyal slow miner who did not earn loyalty credits contributes the same amount of hash to the same pool (jumping in for the easy difficulty), but not having earned loyalty credits during the previous high difficulty era, receives only .027 coins, per rules of the coin.

In the meantime, the loyal solo miner, quickly finds 10 blocks during this easy difficulty era, and each time he finds the block, he extinguishes 50 loyalty credits and receives 50 coins. At the end of the easy mining era, he has acquired 500 coins, and used up all the loyalty credits. A non-loyal solo miner decides to jump in to try to take advantage of the easy difficulty level with equal hash power, also solves 10 blocks, but because he did not have any loyalty credits to extinguish as he solved each block, he only got 25 coins per block solved, for a total of 250 coins. Maybe he decides he'd better stick around and mine this coin during difficult times, so next time the easier difficulty comes around, he can earn 50 coins per block. And this is precisely the behavior we want to encourage.

In what way do these scenarios fail to differentiate between slow loyal miners and fast hop miners, or reward the fast hop miners for their behavior?

I like this idea, but it seems difficult to implement compared to a weighted-average difficulty that retargets at a short interval (e.g. 32 blocks) but uses a longer interval (e.g. 2016 blocks) as the basis for calculating the next difficulty so that hash has to increase long-term to increase difficulty significantly.
186  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 02:41:38 AM
The fork is precisely an engineered inflation, no more, no less. This is a fact, regardless if it grants a beautiful feature for the coin instead of a certain death, or not.

Yes, after the changes are made, there won't be any more inflation and inflation won't be the right word anymore. But it is now.
The coin will accept and build in the inflation which is already happened. But instead of a random, natural and temporal inflation, it will be engineered and permanent.

This way, my loss isn't just blind luck anymore, or the will of many thousands. It is a decision of a few (at the very end, actually a single) person.
This is relevant for me when I talk about how I feel about the coin.

Inflation isn't the right word even now, since the change does not directly affect the current or future value of the coin. The change is not taking place in order to make it profitable to mine. The change is designed to allow transactions to occur, which isn't happening at the current difficulty. With the corrected difficulty adjustments, the current mining will be enough to process transactions.
187  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 02:24:41 AM
Except if people jump into and out of mining the coin, it will not recalibrate to 10 minutes. Maybe the difficulty retargets it will be somewhat more moderated, but that's because we are hiding the symptoms by changing things so fast that we are hoping miner-dumpers don't keep up. But that is regularizing the difficulty adjustments, in the same sense as claiming that security by obscurity is real security. It is easily defeated by coding.

In a way, having the long block adjust time, serves to highlight the underlying problem, like a canary in a mine showing up toxic gasses before people start dying. I would consider this a subtantial virtue of the long difficulty adjustment period. It provides an opportunity to perceive the problem in purer, exaggerated form, so that a real fundamental fix can be test as a true long-term solution for real. Shortening the difficulty adjustment poriod is like simply taking the canary out of the mine, and would not be a legitimate way to improve the health of miners. (pun not intended).

This is why difficulty SHOULD be retargeted every 36 blocks, but that the new difficulty should be that calculated from the hashrate for the previous 2016 blocks. This gives the short-term stability of long retarget periods, and also most of the quick response time of the short retargeting period.

The difficulty would track to a point high enough that large amounts of hash jumping in and out would have little effect, but low enough that confirmations and transactions still occur.
188  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 12:19:26 AM
Mark my words - this will lead to endless cycles of a 12-24 hours at high difficulty (e.g., 30 minute block time x 36 = 18 hours), followed by very easy difficulty for less than an hour (e.g., 1 minute block time x 36 = 36 minutes) during which time miner-dumpers will put massive hashing power to get cheap catcoins and dump on the markets, followed again by 12-24 hours at high difficulty when loyal miners suffer, and repeat over and over again. Just a speeded up version of the same problem. Coin prices languish. The problem is the oscillation with the inherent temporary high hash power combined with dumping of the cheaply mined coins, at the expense of loyal miners - and not just the particular unrealistically high difficulty phase / slow confirm times. High difficulty is merely a symptom.

And how is a 12-24 hour cycle any worse than a cycle of 4 months at very high difficulty when the coin is unusable, with a couple days between where the difficulty is low and miners dump it?

In order to prevent this type of cycling, a smarter difficulty algorithm is needed. I would propose that the difficulty SHOULD be retargeted every 36 blocks, but that the new difficulty should be that calculated from the hashrate for the previous 2016 blocks. This gives the short-term stability of long retarget periods, and also most of the quick response time of the short retargeting period.

This would avoid miners pumping the difficulty is rapid cycles, and also keep the coin very similar to BTC in structure - the only difference would be the 36 block implementation of the retarget based on the previous 2016 blocks.
189  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! - FORK COMING AT BLOCK 20290 PLEASE ENTER AND READ! on: January 04, 2014, 12:00:53 AM
Starting difficulty: 0.00024414  Huh

Why? This diff is so low that a single gpu can mine 2 week amount within hours.

block date                       
0   2013-12-23 22:38:22
2016   2013-12-24 01:08:48
4032   2013-12-24 01:36:06
6048   2013-12-24 01:58:43

How can it be fair, that 2 month CAT supply was mined in 3 hours?

The rate at which the first 20160 blocks was mined has less to do with the low starting difficulty and more to do with the 2016 block retarget period and 4x maximum difficulty adjustment.

With an algorithm that is not CPU-only, those specs doom the coin to failure because so much hash power is available for instant reallocation to mining CAT when it's profitable.
190  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - middlecoin.com on: January 03, 2014, 09:34:45 PM
I know mining BTC on GPU is no comparison to scrypt coins converted to BTC. I guess the $/MH value is more of what I was looking for.

I have about 7MH and make about $45 worth of LTC a day. Ive been thinking about trying to mine and convert to BTC more than I have in the past.

0.04BTC is about $31 right now, with the same 5MH I can mine $32 of LTC a day. (as of right now)

Im geting avg 0.045 from 2.7mh which is about $35 a day, so you are well down,  Lips sealed

I have averaged about 0.017 BTC per MH/s per day since the DOGE craziness calmed down. With 7 MH/s you are probably looking at about 0.100 BTC per day on average, ranging from 0.060 to 0.150 depending on the day.
191  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 08:15:05 PM
The 2016 block retarget is an important property of the coin, in that it determines exactly how the coin reacts dynamically. The dynamics of Catcoin are far too slow for the current crypo environment. It stabilized much to slowly and badly overshot the target difficulty established by market value.

Retargets are heavily influenced by the amount of flexible hashpower that can be turned on the coin. The slow response works (and worked) for BTC because doubling the net hash in less than one retarget time was never feasible. For CAT one multipool can make a 10x increase, this has to be accounted for on the coin can't survive.

....so OP is a fag...?

More likely the wanted to replicate BTC's success, but forgot that BTC started in a CPU-only mining world. If he used a GPU-resistant algo it might have worked, but there is too much hash out there to replicate BTC in scrypt.
192  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 07:52:50 PM
THE 2016 IS NOT PART OF THE PROTOCOL.

IT'S PART OF MAINTAINING THE PROTOCOL.

The 2016 block retarget is an important property of the coin, in that it determines exactly how the coin reacts dynamically. The dynamics of Catcoin are far too slow for the current crypo environment. It stabilized much to slowly and badly overshot the target difficulty established by market value.

Retargets are heavily influenced by the amount of flexible hashpower that can be turned on the coin. The slow response works (and worked) for BTC because doubling the net hash in less than one retarget time was never feasible. For CAT one multipool can make a 10x increase, this has to be accounted for on the coin can't survive.
193  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 07:34:17 PM
first, by changing the parameters of catcoin, you won't save catcoin, you'll replace it with another coin that is also named catcoin. the catcoin that we all invested in a week ago will not exist anymore.  
The catcoin you invested in a week ago will be dead with or without the fork; at least with the fork they will still part of a viable blockchain instead of virtual paperweights.

second, the economics of changing the currency when we feel it isn't worth as much as it should be, and it's too difficult to wait 126 days for a redifficulty adjustment:  these are not economic arguments either:  they play on people's lack of patience.  
People aren't going to pour hash (which is time, money, power, and opportunity cost) into something that may or may not come back to life in 4 months, and is essentially useless in the meantime. Hashrate will keep dropping and the retarget will be 6 months away, then a year, and then never.
194  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 07:25:21 PM
it took bitcoin more than 126 days to reach $0.05USD.

And during that time you could mine 10 BTC in a few hours with a single CPU thread, and have them confirmed in an hour. BTC would be dead at launch in today's environment (as CAT pretty much proves).

The next retarget will NEVER be reached by the current wallet users. CAT is dead until it's forked, because it currently can't be mined, traded, spent, bought, or given away, or anything else you do with a currency.
195  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 06:43:23 PM
Guys,
 if forking saves the Cat, why not now but wait a day ??

The exact changes to the wallet need to be agreed upon, and the changes need to be coded, compiled, and uploaded. All this before the network hits the block that it will fork.

The changes are already agreed.

What are the new specs? The OP has not been updated.
196  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - middlecoin.com on: January 03, 2014, 06:35:42 PM


At 320kh/s, I got 32 shares on the US server in an hour.

I was doing EU/US load balancing for 4hrs on 1 rig, 8 hrs of just US, (both rigs) other than that EU all the time.
Seems like today it will end exceptionally bad for me  Huh
http://middlecoin2.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/reports/1Fv1iXJo818UPCn3ttPcyn2xpi2D6SCNKP.html

Others will similar hash rate are way ahead of me.
e.g: http://middlecoin2.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/reports/1MYMgE3rTPW17RsbfsqUMVhPrphanyuHUP.html
http://middlecoin2.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/reports/1KV3AUZ9jH24Ux7YfVwUxmkitoYAYEs3HM.html
etc..

What can I check which can explain this?
I know many don't like noobs complaining of low payouts on this forum, but had to ask...  Undecided

I've had similar rates:

http://middlecoin2.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/reports/14Cdwieeud1tno3Vutm4Hv9RF2ytyJWPLz.html

Using load-balancing on everything for most of the last 18 hours, before that EU only. I think the hit to DOGE over the last couple days has the EU profitability down. Switching to just the US server about 2 hours ago has my unexchanged going up faster, not helping my balance though.

Altcoins in general have done badly the last day or two, so I would not expect a good payout until they recover.
197  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 06:21:38 PM
Guys,
 if forking saves the Cat, why not now but wait a day ??

The exact changes to the wallet need to be agreed upon, and the changes need to be coded, compiled, and uploaded. All this before the network hits the block that it will fork.
198  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 05:21:31 PM
Actually, that hasn't been determined AT ALL.  Lowering the diff MAY get the pumpndump miners back, but nobody's committed to mining with or without the fork.  Without hashrates in hand, we're just shooting blind here.  As for the hashrate, trust me, we all are WELL aware that nobody's mining and that confirmations are few and far between.  I'm just not sure that we need to get pushed into a fork to make pool miners that have already failed (ask yourself WHY a single miner was able to spike the diff, its because there's not enough mining at normal diffs to survive the attack) happy.  At this point in life, this is looking an AWFUL lot like a pig in a poke. 

I will throw 0.5 MH/s in for a week to get through the last blocks before a retarget once it's forked. But I won't waste my hash mining a dead coin until something is done.

Even with a fork to shorten the retarget, the coin is not going to be profitable enough for multipools to jump in for quite a while. Pump and dumps will happen, but leaving the current version just guarantees it will die.
199  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 04:41:51 PM
it's a week old and $0.50 usd it saw $1.00usd it's first day in trade
there are 1000000+ coins plenty liquid
do any of you know how long it's taken bitcoin to touch any of that?

It's a week old and its NOT USABLE because the block times are so long. Bitcoin never had that problem. Catcoin is not liquid because transactions aren't happening. The network is not going to reach the next difficulty retarget for at least 2 months, and the coin will be dead long before then... if support drops down to only the die-hards then it will take YEARS to reach the retarget.

If the retarget isn't changed the coin has zero chance. None.

The retarget can be changed temporarily during emergencies such as this and it can be brought back up.

If you change the retarget entirely, you are on your way to making a new coin which appeases coin hoppers.

Changing the retarget time requires a change in the wallet. It wouldn't be practical or realistic to manipulate the coin like that. No exchange would touch it.

Wallets get updated all the time, just look at BTC. The exchanges will update with everyone else, and the coin might have a chance. Otherwise its DEAD.
200  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Catcoin - Scrypt meow! on: January 03, 2014, 04:30:21 PM
it's a week old and $0.50 usd it saw $1.00usd it's first day in trade
there are 1000000+ coins plenty liquid
do any of you know how long it's taken bitcoin to touch any of that?

It's a week old and its NOT USABLE because the block times are so long. Bitcoin never had that problem. Catcoin is not liquid because transactions aren't happening. The network is not going to reach the next difficulty retarget for at least 2 months, and the coin will be dead long before then... if support drops down to only the die-hards then it will take YEARS to reach the retarget.

If the retarget isn't changed the coin has zero chance. None.
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