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______________means I deleted & restored the wallet after the use only_____________
Honestly... not likely to be a derivation path issue then. Well, I could try at least. Ahhhh that would require something slightly different I believe... as it seems you're trying to get the "BIP39 version" of an Electrum seed.
Generally speaking... an Electrum generated seed will not be a valid BIP39 seed (there are some relatively rare exceptions). So, if you click the "BIP39 seed" and type in an Electrum seed, it will likely show "checksum: failed". Electrum will allow you to go ahead and use it anyway if you really want...
But, to the best of my knowledge, there is no way to replicate this behaviour with the Ian Coleman tool (or the tool I posted). However, it should theoretically be possible by simply modifying the Ian Coleman tool to ignore the checksum calculation.
I'll have a look into it over the weekend and see what I can come up with (if someone else doesn't beat me to it)
Here is a modification on iancoleman that you kind of suggested in the other topic & @BlackHatCoiner posted it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5342570.msg57185821#msg57185821 - how different that modification would be to the already modified tool you've posted here on my topic? Then you did this post in the same topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5342570.msg57213565#msg57213565 -the 1st tool is the one you have also posted here - the 2nd tool though is different. Could you I use it for BIP39 Elcetrum seed because you wrote that it bypasses the checksum or this post from you seems quite appealing too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5107752.msg49651803#msg49651803 |
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you would not have been able to get a weird derivation path unless you used the seed to restore the wallet before you even attempted to use it.
1. I created the wallet & kept it runing (didn't close Electrum Software) 2. straight away sent a test transaction 3. couldn't connect to the servers, did some fix & so the circle in the bottom right went to synchronizing, now I could see the test transaction as 'not veriefied' 4. then sent the bigger transaction 5. onlty then I started looking for a solution ______________means I deleted & restored the wallet after the use only_____________ @HCP Could you tell me how to use the modified tool you posted me earlier on. Everytime I type in an Electrum seed & keep all the modifications in the tool as it is (standard derivation path: m/0) the wallet & addresses to it are there. - Now let's just say I use the same seed, that was generated by Electrum, to restore a wallet in Electrum software and instead of just going ahead I check the BIP39 & choose derivation path m'44/0'/0' - Q: how can I find this derivation in the tool? beacause I have tried many different options & I can not find it. Why am I asking: because on the picture with the two wallets @bitmover hosted, the wallet on the right side is restored with BIP39 & derivation path m/44'/0'/0' - I need to find it in the tool. Note: I did not restore that wallet in Spt.2019 using derivation path, only after people started suggesting. (which was after I lost the wallet with the funds) I have this thought when I could find this derivation path wallet in the tool, it might help ahead in finding the lost wallet. |
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I was thinking that this might had happened to you: issues/5082#issuecomment-461428986BTW, the first post is the " old version corruption bug" that you've been mentioning in the other thread. What is described in the link is absolutely possible that this is actually what I did. If so, is there anything at all that might help, or at least I could try besides file restoration |
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You say above you are now using the modified iancoleman tool to try to find the former adresses/keys. But with the tool have you already been able to get the same adresses and keys you currently have on your Electrum wallet with your seed?
I could get the addresses but only from the left wallet >>>>look at the picture from @bitmover The left wallet is the seed without BIP39 check The right one is with BIP39 check box - from that one I wasn't able to find the address until now. Keep in Mind both were generated using the same seed & I can recover the right wallet anytime using this derivation path: m/44'/0'/0' |
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Since it was on that Synchronizing symbol, I started researching the reason and found out on the Electrum website that my version is outdated & I have to download the appimage & update it manually & so I did & et voila it went online straight after.
I did not check the signeture. I could send and receive funds without any problems after the update! - which means Phishing & malware is out of question!
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Here is another thing as mantioned already few times: - I sent first a test transaction to my "lost" wallet and remember seeing that incoming transaction onto my lost wallet - that is certain! Because.....
I remember seeing this transaction as 'Not Veriefied' all the time (until I lost the wallet)
So, I did the transaction and I saw it showing off in my wallet, even though as 'Not Verified', thus I understood it went through and eventually it will confirm.
That was the reason I sent the funds to the 2nd address in the wallet because for me it was clear it went through & eventually will be confirmed.
Following, many hours have past and nothing was confirmed, still as 'Not Veriefied", even though I put the mining fee for confirmation within 5 blocks (for big transaction within 2)
This is not what I understood from your OP and your posts above. You said you were not able to reach any Electrum server, so how could you be able to watch your incoming transactions into your wallet?  @Saint-loup Once you go into the wallet, on the right bottom side you see the Network status in form of a circle. Green = online Blue = online routed via proxy Red = offline Synchronizing symbol = sync So, initially I had it on red, which means it was offline. Then I did something, tried to fix it and so following it went to Synchronizing symbol and all of sudden I could see the incoming test transaction. Since then it was there as 'Not Verified' Thus for me it was clear it went through and eventually will be verified, & so I sent the bigger transaction to that wallet. 6. I couldn't see the transaction because I couldn't connect to the servers because it was outdated. Which means I created E_Tails offline
7. Then I understood that E_Tails is outdated on Tails OS and so I updated it to V. 3.3.8
And here is where the SH!T starts boiling
1. I've just typed in the seed that was generated & recovered that "lost" wallet. Since there was still no conncetion to the servers...
2. I've updated the Electrum manager/user on Tails to newer version and then.....
How did you learn your Electrum software was outdated? Did you receive a message/popup on your screen saying that and inviting you to click on a link?
Did you check the signature of the files you've downloaded as suggested by Pooya87 above? If they haven't been modified you can still check their signature.
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I'd say you should focus on getting the right derivation path first, then wallet file recovery as a last resort.
@NotATether Yeah, absolutely. Just how.......? With the modified tool of iancolman.io that @HCP had posted, I've been trying & until now no result. Seems I'm trying wrong. Any tip on that? What was the electrum version bundled with Tails before you updated to version 3.3.8? Since you mentioned that the seed restores the wallet fine on the old version, but it restores to a different wallet on this newer version, it is possible that Electrum has changed the default derivation path or otherwise the algorithm it uses to derive the private keys, hence why knowing the old electrum version (or at least the Tails version you used and we use package manager repositories to pinpoint the Electrum version ourselves) is so important, as it will allow us to scan for code changes on Github related to key derivation.
Edit:
Do you at least know which version of Tails you used at the time?
Tails version: 3.16. Electrum version: I sent an e-mail to Tails support team, hopefully they will reply because they know the answer. If not, then when I'm right it was 3.3.4 - might be also prior to this one I have used this instructions to download the appimage so that I update the Electrum software manually: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tails.html because the wallet had issues getting online But 3.3.4 that problem was fixed - so seems like I have used the wallet prior to 3.3.4 - but as I said, I am not certain. Edit: But based on the screenshots I took of the addresses - you can see that it is 3.3.4 & later because the arrow at the drop down menu was added with v3.3.4 - means it was v3.3.4 or later |
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Regardless of the answer, by looking at this: electrum/issues/5082 ( the corruption bug) and the replies, there's a chance that it could be the case. @nc50lc Case of corruption bug? I consider it too. Is either that or the wrong derivation path, anything else is out questions. If it's really what happened and you've sent the bitcoins to the corrupted wallet file, then the partial solution to this is to restore that wallet file using a file recovery software.
And that would be a problem depending on where you've installed Tails and if it's been active since the incident.
Unfortunately, I won't be able of doing it! Tails was on an USB stick & that stick was gone since mid-end Oct. 2019. Besides that I deleted the wallet files (prior of starting topic in Spt. 2019) as it was advised in guide lines on Tails website. But the real problem is if that recovered wallet can spend from that address, because based from the "issue", the corruption will produce different addresses that aren't covered by your master public key.
Means that your seed can't derive the right private key(s) to spend from them.
That might be exactly what it is. -Now, restoring from files is out of question. - Can I achieve it trying different derivation paths? - restoring the right private key One scenario that the corruption bug might happen is when you created the wallet while the "default_wallet" is still active.
Newbies usually create a wallet during Electrum's first "Install Wizard" which is actually wallet creation window, prior to creating his official wallet.
Would you clerify it? I don't think is somehow related with my problem but I would like to understand it still. Since the issue's going nowhere from all the "no", recovering every deleted/overwritten Electrum wallet files from Tails' persistent folder it's worth the try.
As mentioned above......... No  |
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I don't think it would be the "file corruption bug"... as that would have required that you had (at least attempted to create) multiple wallets/seeds... and you seem very adamant that you did not have multiple seeds/wallets etc.
So, either you did have multiple wallets setup... in which case that makes things like using the wrong wallet possible, in addition to the "file corruption bug"... or you didn't have multiple wallets setup... in which case the file corruption bug is not possible.
@HCP Look, I don't quite remember now. I have this believe..... Yes, might be, I did try to create & restore few wallets (for the purpose of finding solution) but if, then only after I sent the test transaction to the lost walletHere is another thing as mantioned already few times: - I sent first a test transaction to my "lost" wallet and remember seeing that incoming transaction onto my lost wallet - that is certain! Because.....
I remember seeing this transaction as 'Not Veriefied' all the time (until I lost the wallet)
So, I did the transaction and I saw it showing off in my wallet, even though as 'Not Verified', thus I understood it went through and eventually it will confirm.
That was the reason I sent the funds to the 2nd address in the wallet because for me it was clear it went through & eventually will be confirmed.
Following, many hours have past and nothing was confirmed, still as 'Not Veriefied", even though I put the mining fee for confirmation within 5 blocks (for big transaction within 2)
That is how I started looking for the solution: deleted the wallet files, recovered again, deleted again, restored again & so on.
Or am I misunderstanding and you're saying you restored the wallet once (prior to updating etc) and it showed the "lost" address, but not the transaction data?
That is why I had to delete the wallet anew (based on guide line on Tails website) & search for futher solution, where I came across the suggestion on Electrum website - to update the Electrum software manually - & so I did.
Since then I have never been able to restore the "lost" wallet with the funds.
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Assuming the same seed words are used, then the differences between wallets are caused by the selections that are made when generating the wallet... that is to say:
- Selecting "Legacy" or "Segwit"
- Modifying the deriviation path
- "extending the seed with custom words"
@HCP - it is Legacy. I have alwaysed used & recovered in Legacy - Absolutely certain: I did not modify derivation path- Absolutely certain: I did not extend the seed with custom words Now... I would say that one of the following are the likely causes for this whole scenario (in order of probability):
1. Accidentally using a secondary/different wallet that wasn't created using the seed you wrote down
2. Accidental modification of derivation path during initial wallet creation
3. Seeds mixed up during wallet creation
4. "forgotten" Seed Extension
5. Some hitherto unknown bug in Electrum
1. Absolutely NOT. I have used that wallet generated with that seed. - Besides that I have mentioned that I did recover the "lost" wallet before I did the update on Electrum software. 2. NO. 3. NO. 4. NO. 5. Well.... in my previous topic in Spt. 2019 I wrote that the wallet was affected by a 'file corruption bug'. Why did I write it? Because I found this information either on Tails,- or Electrum website, thus at that point it seemed to me that was it, due to descriptions on the website. That might well be the whole problem.
If you want to experiment with #2, the derivation path theory, then I would recommend downloading and running this tool offline: https://github.com/FarCanary/ElectrumSeedTesterIt's basically a modified version of IanColeman's BIP39 tool that works with Electrum seeds. It also allows you to put in "custom seed extensions" (ie. a BIP39 passphrase but for Electrum seeds) Now this..... this is something Great! & I've been jerking on it for over half of the day ..... didn't go nowhere, until now at least Here is the thing: >>>> look at the picture @bitmover hosted, with 2 wallets The wallet from the left side - find straight away, without any problems or changing anything in the tool. The wallet from the right side - I am incapable of digging it out. Tried each Master Node, many different accounts, wallet chains & addresses - I can not find it. Any tip on that? Keep in Mind the both wallets were generated using the same seed. I guess at this point, the derivation path is your best hope, so give the modified seed tool a go...
I guess too. but I would caution that you don't raise your hopes too high... the chances of this being the cause of all this are probably slim to none  I have somehow this feeling that it has something to do with my problem & might be also file corruption bug (mentioned in topic in Spt. 2019) [/quote] |
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Unless you recovered a non bip39 seed into electrum and checked that wallet as BIP39. Then sent funds to it. Looks like this is what you did?
Might have happened, don't recall now. I don't have that feeling though. But let's just assume I did it. I am absolutely certain - if I did it - I did not change any derivation path. Thereupon once you check the BIP39 box, it comes always automatically the following derivation path: m/44/0'/0' And yes, I do have some used addresses on this derivation path. You can see it on the picture above. Wallet with the 6 transactions, on the right side, is with that derivation path. |
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Could you clarify something please?
Do you remember if you have been able to recover your wallet on Tails at least one time before upgrading the Electrum software?
Hello Absolutely, mentioned few times now. Yes, I did recover my "lost" wallet on Tails twice, before upgrading the Electrum software. Because as I understand, you've created your wallet and its seed on MS Windows first.
No, I have created that wallet on Tails. I did create also one on Windows but never had any problems with. Problems only with Tails Electrum walletBut Electrum is using UTF-8 character encoding, so maybe the (UTF-8) character set that has been used to create your seed on MS Windows is not the same as the one used on Tails?
In order to eliminate the dependency on a fixed wordlist, the master private key and the version number are both obtained by hashes of the UTF8 normalized seed phrase.
[/qoute]
First I need to understand what that means in order to answer on that one but as mentioned above wallet was created on Tails OS.
But maybe this what you wrote has to do with the issue because the seed was generated in older version.
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Alright fair enough. I wasn't very happy after spending quite some time reading through both threads to figure out what's going on and got chided like that. I was just trying to clarify on the scenario that you've presented. Your second response explained everything that I needed to know, didn't respond afterwards seeing the reply and edited my post instead to avoid padding the thread up unnecessarily. Nonetheless, apologies if I was harsh on my words.
Everything is cool! I value your help! Thank you for your contribution! HCP's response basically encompasses the gist of the entire thread.
......yes, but no. There is still missing something...... Can be improved @everybody We are on the good way, just keep on thinking & suggesting. Thank you |
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I think there is a good chance here that you actually created a brand new wallet with its own seed phrase while you were trying to import the same old seed. It is an easy mistake to make if you forget to change the first option to not generate a new seed phrase. That would explain why after "recovering" a new wallet you get a different address without changing anything else about derivation path, etc.
@pooya87 No, not even a tiny chance! Absolutely out of question! Because I did restore that "lost" wallet before the update with the same seed! |
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you might had more than one wallets in your old E_Tails and sent the missing transaction to one of them (already mentioned before)
That is exactly what it is! - at least I think so too. Now, how to find that wallet - that is what I'm trying to find out from the community here! apology for late respond.
I will answer all the questions in the next 48h
That was a very long 48hours. .....the longest & most diversified I've ever experienced  So, are addresses of the restored wallets the same except for the missing one? Refer to my last reply of in that thread: Okay, how about the other addresses, are they the same as the addresses from your newly restored wallet?
If it's a no, your and this ( 1st paragraph) scenario is correct If yes, it's most likely that old version bug or something else. No, not at all. This are different addresses, entirely |
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Slightly offtopic. FFS. There's really no point being frustrated with people trying to seek clarifications to your question.
You literally said:
then I get different addresses which I have used after I have updated the wallet.
And
If I don't check the BIP box then it generates the wallet I had after the update.
Those two statements would probably be confusing for most.
Also, there's obviously a bunch of misconceptions in your post and answering them individually would've helped us to narrow down and eliminate all the possibilities. I believe my question was completely reasonable given how your response was phrased. Well... Good luck if you're going to be pissed at people trying to help you.
@ranochigo You are absolutely right! There is no point of being frustrated or being pissed off and I am cool. Often time I am polictical incorrect & say as it is. That is World difference between being pissed off & political incorrectness. Is just that I am aware, that some poeple write the first thing that pops in the head without digging in deeper. I appreciate every single help & contribution from every one! I am willing to answer every single qustion! Thank you |
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Everything is kind of written in the 1st post above. I tried to put many things & keep it simple at the same, to understand. Well, from my reading, I say that it's not understandable enough. You've confused the whole situation with the given explanations. You can't have messed it up with Electrum, it's easy to use and I believe that even a newbie understands every part of the seed generation procedure. You probably made a mistake unrelated with Electrum you haven't mentioned, because you may not know it. I tried iancoleman.io - but of course it doesn't work with Electrum wallet, since Electrum does not support BIP39. Thus everytime an Electrum mnemonic phrase is typed in, it comes back with "invalid mnemonic". You can actually import an electrum seed phrase in iancoleman as long as you want legacy addresses. @BlackHatCoiner thank you for this answer! Yeah, I am quite certain that it is not understadable enough. Messed up with Electrum? - what would I mess up? 1. I've just typed in the seed that was generated & recovered that "lost" wallet. Since there was still no conncetion to the servers... 2. I've updated the Electrum manager/user on Tails to newer version and then..... 3. Typed in the same seed again & guess what - I get entirely new wallet with entirely new addresses - even though using the same seed! 4. And ever since I get this wallet & never the 1st one with the funds That's all, that's the whole story. - Didn't do any BIP39, any phrase extension, any derivation path, nor any other thing! Just typed in the seed that I had in first place. - That's all. Now, I assume - it has something to do with me generating the seed offline & on older version meaning it became kind of a cold wallet. Then deleted all the files, because it was recomended so on Tails website. Then on Electrum website I found that it is necessary to update the wallet manually & so I did it & from that moment onwards it worked just fine! The Electum manager went online (once you are in the wallet) But...... Since I have deleted all the files from that "cold" wallet, used the exact same seed, as a result I'm getting a brand new wallet with brand new addresses & the one from before,,,, have never seen again. That's all. Now @anyone could help me here ahead @BlackHatCoiner but thank you for that tip with source code. Can you downoad it on GitHub? I'm gonna check it out. |
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once I type in that seed without BIP 39 check - I get one wallet with one addresses once I type in the same seed with BIP 39 check & this derivation path only m/44'/0'/0' - I get a different wallet with diff. addresses Here you see on the picture: on the left with BIP39 on the right without BIP39  I hosted your image in a differnet server to be able to post here This is very weird: Creating a new wallet using the same Seed but checking BIP39 in one and in the other without checking. This is not a common practice and you shouldn't do it. This is bad for your security. iancoleman.io is a good website for it but it does not work with Electrum wallets. So, let's troubleshoot from here, OK?! Wallets that you create with electrum are not BIP39. You are able to import wallets that you created using BIP39 in electrum, but you can't create one using electrum. This is important. If you generated the seed inside electrum, you shouldn't have to care about derivation paths. Unless you recovered a non bip39 seed into electrum and checked that wallet as BIP39. Then sent funds to it. Looks like this is what you did? @bitmover thank you for hosting the image, which server did you use? About the wallet creation: initially I did not check anything at all No BIP39, nothing! Didn't type in derivation path! Didn't check BIP39 box! Nothing!!!!!!! I have just created an Electrum wallet on Tails that's all. Would you read the first post carefully, thank you!Then in Spt. 2019 people suggested trying out different derivation paths. You by the way suggested it too! - you may check it in my last topic. Everything is kind of written in the 1st post above. I tried to put many things & keep it simple at the same, to understand. @everyone would you just read carefully. Thank you! |
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~snip~
Do you remember if what version of Electrum you used before you updated it to 3.3.8? Take note if it was from 3.3.3 or below version they are infected with phishing so if it shows a notice and forcing you to download the latest version and click the link you might be phished. Or if you believe that it was from a different derivation path there is a tool that can scan all derivation paths and scan for used addresses with balances. You can find the tool here https://blockpath.com/wallets/local/101?action=appxpubJust open the Electrum wallet and look for wallet information and then copy the xPub and paste it there to scan. Once it shows all used addresses and balances on the left side you will see the right derivation path of those addresses. @BitMaxz yeah thank you for the tool. Unfortunately it's nothing . It scans only the address in the wallet of that particular account That is the whole point - I don't have the right account. I have the right seed but not the right account! So we gotta find the right account! - that is the main task we shall be concentrating on! I have the right seed, I just need the right account! |
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~snip~
Do you remember if what version of Electrum you used before you updated it to 3.3.8? Take note if it was from 3.3.3 or below version they are infected with phishing so if it shows a notice and forcing you to download the latest version and click the link you might be phished. Or if you believe that it was from a different derivation path there is a tool that can scan all derivation paths and scan for used addresses with balances. You can find the tool here https://blockpath.com/wallets/local/101?action=appxpubJust open the Electrum wallet and look for wallet information and then copy the xPub and paste it there to scan. Once it shows all used addresses and balances on the left side you will see the right derivation path of those addresses. No, Jesus Christ, freaking hell, No! No Phishing!!!!!!!!! No maleware!!!!!!!!!! @everyone - please read the post carefully, before writting, it helps. Thank you! |
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