Alternatively,

 would it be possible to make a website interface to #bitcoin-otc with the database distributed? Just something to point and click to generate your keys and identity for a start.

 Such as thing could be easily moved to a tor hidden service. I say tor because that would go nicely for Silkroad users.

I used to be anti gun but now I can see advantage in the Swiss approach of everyone having to own a gun by law.

20 dead kids seem worth it for the ability to defend the country from the various powers that be.

As much as I love this project I think the hassle of running i2p in addition to needing critical mass has killed it somehow?

Perhaps a fully web interface to #bitcoin-otc would be more successful? - this could then be moved to a eepsite / hidden service / distribute the rep database.

 Back in the day we'd dial up BBS systems. Very decentralised and very direct. Later on, I remember connecting direct onto the UK backbone via Janet before that become heavily policed.

 These days, what is the most direct, or indirect connection you've used?

 An example:
-> WiFi -> Corporate network -> Corporate proxy -> remote ISP where the Corporate proxy server is ->  (I think there is another level here) -> BT UK Backbone -> USA -> USA ISP for Colocated servers -> YourWallet.com

hmm... ->

How does this compare to your VPN? How does this compare to servers close to stock markets?

Which exchange automatically converts on fiat reciept?

I have a VPS, repeat: I have a VPS. Just no way or changing the port to an unfirewalled port since I cannot access it

Do we have any estiated figures that have attempted this?

Even just roughly using GDP, population, amount debased using SDR or gold,

 to figure out just how much has be taken from the country over a set period such as 5 years?

2.432 trillion USD - UK GDP for 2011

Cash printed - Well at first I looked at inflation figures but that's a load of rubbish so better just to look at exchange rates and bear in mind that the thing you're comparing against will fluctuate too.

Very roughly £1=

2.432 x 5 years = 12.16 trillion, 5 years

Assuming gold isn't a bubble and is roughly stable over time including now we have a 155% change so £1 five years ago is now worth £0.55

12.16 / 0.55 or about 2 = is about 6 trillion in gold terms.


Next question, where exactly does this cash go? We know it goes to the banks but can I'd like to know it more exactly

This can make a nice flowchart infographic

I have a VPS but can't port 22 & 8080 is firewalled from here.

I don't know of a way to setup a VPS with ssh running on port 443 (which I suspect is not firewalled) without access to port 22 first. The lower level serial access some VPS providers provide I found don't run through their servers.

I have a few domains and I've had it running before but I couldn't get it working again for some reason before I lost open connectivity.

Also, it's really nice to have someone do the whole thing for you.

Can anyone think of a process in nature that is regular with time but somehow predictable to achieve something like this?

It's a pain for me to setup.

Could someone set me up a new server for http://code.kryo.se/iodine/

I only need connectivity, no shell.
Suggested price similar to a cheap shell. Really not expecting to use much bandwidth, browsing, a little youtube maybe. Suggest a price per month in one off amounts.

 

 A very simple example.
- small company, 3 directors around the world.
They can't decide whether to send the balance of their shared account to one investment scheme or another (both have Bitcoin addresses) so we call a vote

 How can we use Bitcoin or Namecoin's accounting system to help the board vote and how far can we go with this?

 My gut feeling is that this process can actually be scaled up into complex operations with algorithms or (less ideal) - addresses with trusted parties that carry out predefined operations. This way, a kind of programming language can be built up.

 Voting could be carried out directly with Bitcoins where the largest balance wins the vote.
 Or voting could be carried out in combination with namecoin's accounting system.
 
Yes, you could link this in with contracts but really I'm interested in this as a direct accounting and direct democratic system with no 3rd party trust involvement (such as a legal system). I can't get my head around how this would work in practise but my gut feeling is that it's possible right now... I just don't have the intelligence to figure it out even conceptually.

Is it possible?

Sounds like a thread or wiki entry summerising and ranking the various banks is needed.

While there is a lot to cover if we can identify the least worst that will be very useful. The SEPA zone is at least a good example of competition.

UK:
Last seen Intersango with Metrobank following dumping Lloyds.

 What would be required in order to have an exchange that holds no balance of it's own, or vastly minimizes the balance it holds?

- so you send your fiat or BTC and it gets converted as soon as it arrives for example
- or you pledge an trade, script something to autosend from a balance on your own computer but can still back out if you wish to cancel the process
- or simply automated payout to a preapproved or locked address/account

 Problems I can foresee include:
- slow fiat system transfers
- slow bitcoin system transfer (confirmations)

 But it could be a good setup for people who want the cash on the exchange for as little as possible.

 I still think exchanges are an accident waiting to happen or of course, have happened. Any funds you have involved with an exchange is as bad as a bank.. maybe even worse - completely against bitcoin. Any dealing with an exchange is against bitcoin. Q: How many BTCs are held at exchanges? It could be argued that this is not Bitcoin.

This is anecdotal. Chatting to a small sample of maybe 10-20 Brazilians, all have been blaze' - "It's a big place". It's taken for granted because it's home. I try to communicate that our Europe was covered in forest too - that was big too and now we have very little. Basically none indigenous, this is the last place left and we can see it happening on Google Maps at the most zoomed out level.

Many Brazilians I've met though have appeared kind but also with an undercurrent of arrogance and selfishness or snobbery even I find hard to swallow - perhaps this is the difference between a less class enforced society and not so lucky. Online gamers I've only met cheating. Guess it's culture.

Nice to see a thread mentioning Metatrader4.

I'm holding out for signals on LR vs BTC or other directly held currencies. Brokers can go bust.

Still, fun to play with I'd imagine

My 2btc - there are SWIFT payment services for £8 that you can send a FPS transfer to and they will pass on to MTGox

In short: Transferwise seems best. But it's worth the effort to get into meeting local people.

Summary (add to first post danny?):

#bitcoin-otc-uk
https://blockchain.info/wallet/deposit-bank-transfer
Blockchain Pingit - >5%
Moneygram. Couldn't get the calculate fee thing to work. Must be rubbish.
Bitstamp via Transferwise and others: "Payments of up to 300 GBP/EUR cost you just £1 or €1" - still need to remember to check the rate though making it a bit clunkier than Intersango was
& other Paymium routes
http://mjbmonetarymetals.co.uk/ - >5%. Bit clunky
bit2brit.co.uk - unproven. avoid or escrow
ukask-cashu-OKPAY: total fee?
localbitcoins.com - currents ~5%. Durable, condusive with Bitcoin ethos but clunky.
Future - droplet
MtGox via 3rd party FPS/SWIFT transfer service: £8 flat fee?


Well, it's pretty easy to hide bitcoins and pretend you never got them; not so much with Gibson, there is a whole postal track record and the physical object in your house, etc.
[/quote]

This is very true in practicality but I think technically it's not in that hopefully one day there will be legal precendent where if the customer sends their recieving Bitcoin address in recorded comms to a seller and an exact amount requested arrives at that address that we can all see on Blockexplorer then really to my mind that is harder to prove non delive1ry of than a squiggle on the 80's fedEx PDA, no? Of course law doesn't always make sense but we shall see in time.


Just to clarify this. Technically the UK is in the SEPA zone. It's just a case of ripoff Britain and maybe cronies thinking they are different from "The Europeans" (you are Europeans you idiots!)

Since intersango went down as long as you have cheap SEPA facility with your bank it's a good option for people in the UK.

Unlike Gox I found they handled an ID / lost password request really well and personal.

Recommended so far

edit: Try transferwise for a £1 transfer to Bitstamp from the UK. The best option in the UK now I think.

on linux:


so somehow I would have to give the java plugin extra permissions?

Same with chromium and firefox

All of the heavy lifting can already be provided through various means.

The things is that nothing decentralised is easy to use. I gave up on Bitcoin-OTC