Wow, what a joke.

D'ya think that this might have something to do with how bitcoin is a pyramid-disguised currency? A large portion of the people around here are interested only in money for nothing, thanks to the O Holy Creator, He That Shall Remain Anonymous.

There is no manipulation, only encouragement by opportunity. What you quote is referring to the price of ENC vs fiat. In the end, it always rests in the hands of the people to decide what happens, not a central authority and not early adopters.

rofl, nice post.

mediafire doesn't require registration, I didn't even have to register to upload. And googledocs certainly doesn't.

While far in the future deflation would happen on a slow timescale, I think you might prefer a system where the currency strives to maintain the same buying power. See my signature.

No, they clearly didn't (see first 32,000 blocks and how the average time is 13 minutes which is about 4 CPUs worth, and never deviated or increased in difficulty), and even if they did, we are talking a few hundred dollars for millions in profits.


paper shufflers on wall st have caused the worst economic crisis since the great depression by screwing with the currency. It is the exact same power that early adopters have and will abuse.

You are obviously a bitcoin shill so there is little point in saying anything more.

I never answered because it is a pointlessly rigged question. They didn't have to buy hardware, they paid an absolute pittance in electricity, and a computer spent time and effort to build the block chain and verify tx's, not people. They're not delivering mail in a war zone in the Congo. The only one who had any claim to profit from actual work was Satoshi for coding the software. But it is open source, a type of software that millions of people work on everyday with absolutely no intent in profiting.

I've never said early adopters don't deserve a profit. I've always argued that early adopters sure as shit don't deserve to control the economy. Even if they "trickle in" coins over years, with the hordes accumulated from early adoption, one could potentially INDEFINITELY support themselves, their children, their grandchildren, their great-greatchildren, and so on without ever doing a single thing for the economy once it reached a minimum amount of stability.

Early adopters could have said that they plan on stabilizing the price, could have been completely transparent about it and taken a one-time profit (which would have been in the millions, quite a fair payment imo). But Satoshi especially went to immense lengths to remain totally anonymous and then disappeared. These are not the actions of a rational actor. These are the actions of someone who is looking to pump and dump. And probably already did. Problem is, he still has hundreds of thousands of coins to do it all over again many times.

wish in one hand, sh** in the other... not that this has any bearing on the problem of early adopters, it only makes it worse if they continue to wait to sell.


I'll pretend this is an honest question: to protect themselves from the machinations of fiat.

In bitcoin, you trade the fed for the early adopters. Early adopters are already machinating. They are controlling the economy to benefit themselves. Withholding currency to drive up demand; placing huge bid walls to manipulate the falling price. Except now the people are nameless and faceless and answer to no authority.

right, unfortunate accident.

Because people around here have a habit of seeing only what they want to see. I figured I'd help out by emphasizing words that shouldn't be ignored.

You do it in a confusing way though. There's no need for the second inflation premium.

Nominal Interest Rate = Inflation + Real Interest (Basic Interest + Risk)


They loan at a lower interest, you pay the fee. Where is the difference? Again, as I pointed out before, demurrage does not mean there is no inflation. It depends on the currency in question. Assuming a standard fiat currency, you get:

Real Cost of Borrowing = Demurrage + Nominal Interest (Inflation + Basic + Risk)

There isn't going to be a fixed supply of money in the real world, so it is hard to simply say "this is how it will work." Inflation will certainly be lower, but only because demurrage will make up for it. Basic might be lower, but then risk must be higher as you must loan the money or risk paying demurrage.

The affect this has on the economy is hard to predict, but odds are it would be more beneficial to the middle/lower class than the rich. Which, I believe, in turn would still benefit the upper middle class and such. The superrich would be likely lose, but they lose anyway when the divide is so great that we enter a recession yet again because the middle/lower class has no wealth.

It is a way of money that would probably be less apt to fall into the business cycle, but that does not mean the cost of borrowing money goes down.



If the risk premium is higher, real and nominal interest is not lower. Cost of borrowing is likely completely unchanged. I couldn't even speculate how this would affect fractional reserve.


When someone talks about "inflatacoin" they are referring to a bitcoin-like system where the monetary base does not stop producing. This is not a 5% inflation of the money supply every year. I don't think anyone has seriously ever suggested that. Even if the award increases by 5% every year, that is still nowhere near inflating the money supply by 5% every year. In fact, I think it would work reasonably well as an alternative.

uhm, why don't you set a ticket price for each chain?

Bitcoin is NOT A STOCK. It is a CURRENCY that if you invest in it, it is on the HOPE that early adopters DON'T SELL.

There is no PRODUCT. There is no COMPANY. There is absolutely no basis for any value except SCARCITY.

Any RETURN ON INVESTMENT is in the HOPE that OTHER PEOPLE BUY IN and early adopters DON'T SELL.

A STOCK produces RETURNS by INVESTING YOUR MONEY into a COMPANY, thus giving you PART-OWNERSHIP, that works to improve its PRODUCTION. It does NOT require others to buy in to see an investment return, that is called a PYRAMID.


BITCOIN IS NOT A STOCK. It is NOTHING at all like a stock except that it has a limited quantity and an exchange. You do not OWN anything but a digital trash token. No STOCK starts as being worthless.

VHS initially was able to hold a longer tape. Betamax couldn't even store a feature film. Sometimes one mistake is the death of an era.


prophexy: definitely stay away from solidcoin as it is closed source. I would stay away from investing anything more than few play dollars in bitcoin as well. Little economy supports its weight, therefore it is easily manipulated and is just a stock market game where anyone who invests now takes an exceedingly high risk.

This is definitely true, but since there is no basis for any of them besides demand, if demand is significantly split between, they all do lose value. At this point, bitcoin obviously has the most to lose, but it will also be very hard to break in to that market because of its existing popularity.

rofl...

I've seen you use this equation before, and I have to ask why inflation premium is in it twice. And I have to ask why you assume basic interest would be lowered because of the cost of money--the main argument against demurrage is that this is an assumption that will likely prove to not be true. Basic interest may need to be higher than you assume for banks to recover lost funds that they did not loan out. Alternatively, too many bad loans are given out because of the cost of money, and the risk premium is higher as a result. Things do not work in a vacuum just because you add demurrage.

And as I pointed out to you previously, your expocoin description is terribly inaccurate. Any inflation-based coin is likely to increase the money supply at an ever-reducing rate of inflation. It certainly doesn't make sense otherwise, and it would function (almost) identically to bitcoin for a very long period of time.


Ignoring how banks work doesn't make us richer either.

BEX, I'm sure coinhunter is a douche and all and you have a good reason for the epic nerd rage you have for him and all, but you just come off as the bigger douche every time. Coinhunter is like the happy friendly retard that everyone secretly makes fun of, you are the super angry down's retard that everyone is afraid to go near.

Just because you pretend the two are inseparable does not mean they are. If bitcoin became the primary form of money in Kenya or Zimbabwe or whatever, the economies of those countries would be further crushed when Satoshi or whoever decides to drop a load of 50k coins. And they will rightly see that a bitcoin is no better than a zimbabwe trillion dollar bill.