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Thank you for your patience I'm somewhat confident that makes sense to me. Would you say then that the 2 options are equally secure in terms of being randomly guessed/hacked?
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Can you explain this "there's a 1 in 2^256 chance for your master private key to have a seed phrase that isn't known."
So you're saying that if I generated a private master key using bitcoin core, it could possibly have a seed phrase attached to it already and I don't know about it? That doesn't seem correct to me. I think I'm not fully grasping what you're saying.
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Doesn't the seed phrase give you the master private key though? So someone could guess either the seed phrase or master private key and get the bitcoin. Whereas with a master private key that has no seed, there's only 1 thing to guess. Although guessing takes time so I suppose you could say the 2 are equally secure then?
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Let's say, hypothetically, you can remember your master private key (256-bit) or a 24 word seed phrase with equal precision.
Would it therefore be equally/more secure to remember your 256-bit master private key and never use a seed phrase? And actually more secure (not by a statistically relevant amount but still technically more secure for this hypothetical) because of the fact that a seed phrase can be used to get the master private key, but a master private key cannot be used to get a seed phrase if a seed phrase does not exist?
Please try and keep answers to the hypothetical, I'm trying to understand how things work and not necessarily how to store my own bitcoin.
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Ok thank you very much. The creator of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JNL3-1lnvg in the comment section said this in reply to someone: "Thanks TFS, Electrun is a great wallet but they are have announced that they will support BIP148 which means if that fork fails you have the potential to lose coins. Best bet is to control you own private keys." So he is implying with electrum you don't control your own private keys, but is he wrong? |
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Thank you so much for those links I'm really liking what I'm seeing, I'll make sure to look at all of them.
If I can get my private master key straight from core why do I even need to bother with electrum? Can't I just use core only?
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I heard that with electrum you aren't in control of your private keys? Is there a better alternative?
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I'm fine with that, but they only allow 12 words. Also, is there an alternative where I don't have to use software?
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What is the best way to create offline bitcoin storage that never touched/touches the internet? I want to only use the 24 seeds words, and not any sort of product like a ledger or nano.
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Everything is working great, my last question would be how would I do this without ever connecting to the internet? Since to use core you have to sync up
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By the way the reason I thought the error was with the walletpassphrase step is because there was no 60 second delay, it was almost instant that it returned null. Again, that's expected. The 60 seconds are until Core enables the encryption again, not the delay until it decrypts it in the first place. I tried a desktop filepath this time and still got code -8, although this time it took longer before I got the error message. Sorry, I forgot the quotation marks. Try: dumpwallet "C:\users\me\desktop\file" Also make sure that Bitcoin Core has write permissions to wherever you are trying to write to. Thank you so so much for your patience and help, the quotes worked and I have a master key for this test run! |
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Did you try entering a full path? So on Windows, you would enter something like: dumpwallet C:\users\me\desktop\file For Linux, something like: dumpwallet /home/user/file Sorry, win 10 64 bit and yeh I did try doing that. By the way the reason I thought the error was with the walletpassphrase step is because there was no 60 second delay, it was almost instant that it returned null. I tried a desktop filepath this time and still got code -8, although this time it took longer before I got the error message. |
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Thank you for everything! I tried a couple times but the walletpassphrase (password) 60 command gives me the following: This is the correct response. If you had entered the wrong passphrase then it would return an error saying so. Are you getting an error trying to use the dumpwallet command? Maybe try entering a full path for your file. What OS are you running, and what version of Core? getnetworkinfo returns "version": 220000 "subversion": "/Satoshi:22.0.0/", "protocolversion": 70016, dumpwallet NAME returns Cannot open wallet dump file (code -8) |
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Hopefully getting the master private key dumped from the wallet is simple enough. Using the GUI: - Open Core
- Click File -> Create Wallet
- Pick a name and check "Encrypt Wallet"
- On the next screen, enter an encryption passphrase
- Create the wallet
- Click Window -> Console
- Select the wallet you just created from the drop down list
- Enter walletpassphrase YOURPASSPHRASE 60 (this will decrypt your wallet for 1 minute)
- Enter dumpwallet NAME (this will create a file named NAME in your bitcoin directory)
- Navigate to that file and open it with a text editor, and your master private key will be displayed at the top
- Delete this file once you have your master private key
I'll need to be connected to the internet then to get it right, is that a drawback? You can do all the above while offline, and indeed, should do it while offline for additional security. Even better if you can do it all on a computer which is permanently airgapped and has never and will never go online. Or would I have to connect to the internet at some point regardless with other methods as well? Unless you are planning to use a permanently airgapped set up, then at some point your master private key will be stored in a wallet which is exposed to the internet. Thank you for everything! I tried a couple times but the walletpassphrase (password) 60 command gives me the following: 04:40:31 Executing command using "1" wallet 04:40:31 walletpassphrase(…) 04:40:31 null After which I'm unable to do the other steps successfully. |
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I will try to use bitcoin core as you suggested, hopefully it's not too difficult. Bitcoin Core doesn't use seed phrases at all. It will generate a hierarchical deterministic wallet directly from a master private key. When you run Bitcoin Core for the first time, it will starting downloading the entire blockchain, which is ~400 GB. If you have the bandwidth and storage for this, then you can let it do so which will allow you to run your own node and use Bitcoin Core as a functioning wallet. If you don't want to do this, then you can simply use Bitcoin Core to create a wallet and dump the master private key, and then take that master private key over to a light wallet such as Electrum. Also make sure you verify all the software you are downloading (Core +/- Electrum) against the developers' PGP keys so you can be sure you are running the official version and not malware. I really appreciate it, I'm actually already 99.1% synced, just catching up fully right now to 100 on core. Right now I'm just doing a test but in the future I'll follow all the precautions and make a new one. Hopefully getting the master private key dumped from the wallet is simple enough. I'll need to be connected to the internet then to get it right, is that a drawback? Or would I have to connect to the internet at some point regardless with other methods as well? |
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So far it looks like the only way I can do this is to use seed words first and then discard them? Can I bypass using them in the first place and go straight to the master private key? If you want a single private key for a single address, then no, you can just generate (almost) any random 256 bit number and use that as a private key. If you want a master private key to generate an entire wallet, then you need both the 256 bit private key and a 256 bit master chain code. You don't have to generate a seed phrase first by any means, but most wallets do, and since you are a newbie I really wouldn't recommend trying to code your own system to generate master private keys as you will almost certainly end up with either a critical flaw or a critical vulnerability. If you really want a master private key without a seed phrase, then use Bitcoin Core. since seed words really just generate the master key with an easier to remember string of words, but I plan on remembering the 256 numbers instead. I can stress enough just how ill-advised it would be to rely on your memory of a 256 bit number to back up your wallet. You will lose your coins doing this. [/quote] Thanks, I don't plan on storing very much on there but I want to make sure it's possible. I will try to use bitcoin core as you suggested, hopefully it's not too difficult. So far I haven't found a single wallet where you can bypass generating a seed phrase. |
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Thank for the responses, and sorry for my stubbornness, I'm trying to learn more about bitcoin by doing lots of different methods to see what is possible. So far it looks like the only way I can do this is to use seed words first and then discard them? Can I bypass using them in the first place and go straight to the master private key? That's what I really want to do. I don't have to use electrum, I'm open to any method that lets me totally bypass seed words, since seed words really just generate the master key with an easier to remember string of words, but I plan on remembering the 256 numbers instead.
As for the people who say it's not as secure, that's assuming human error, if I remember or record all 256 digits correctly, my understanding is that the security is just as good.
If it's at all relevant my plan for storing bitcoin on it is either generate bitcoin directly from mining or buy it from someone for cash. I am also willing to pay for someone knowledgeable with a large post history to walk me through the process on discord voice call, so I can learn more about the whole process.
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I want to create bitcoin storage that I can keep offline and remember my private master key without having to have 24 seed words.
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Apologies for my ignorance, but I don't have a master key or anything to import or export, I'm stuck on the "create keystore from a master key page" and it says please enter your master public key, (xpub/ypub/zpub), and I don't have any of these.
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Thank you, what do I type in the dialog box to create my master private key?
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