"We are building on the work of the Cypherpunks who came before us to ensure that a widely dispersed research community cannot be shut down." https://vimeo.com/18201825 |
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Würde ich jetzt nicht als die GROßE ÄNDERUNG ansehen.
Welche grosse Änderung? |
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Wir beschreiben hier die Überlegungen zum Design von Woodcoin, sowie dessen Implementierung, mit Fokus auf den Eigenschaften, welche Woodcoin von anderen Kryptowährungen abgrenzen. Ähnlich wie Bitcoin ist Woodcoin eine Kryptowährung. Jedoch ist Bitcoin so entworfen, dass es einer nicht erneuerbaren Ressource gleicht: Gold. Woodcoin hingegen gleicht eher einer nachhaltigen Ressource. Insbesondere verhindert Woodcoin zeitliche Asymmetrien welche bei Bitcoin durch seinen Schöpfungsmechanismus auftreten. Dadurch wird ein Anreiz zur Partizipation, geschaffen, sowie die Langlebigkeit von Woodcoin gewährleistet. Unsere Lösung basiert auf einem logarithmischen Wachstum der Geldmenge. Zusätzlich skizzieren wir die Gestaltungsüberlegungen hinter den beiden anderen Änderungen des Kernprotokolls: Mining mit der Skein-Hash-Funktion, sowie die Absicherung von digitalem Besitz mithilfe der X9_prime256v1 Kurve durch ECDSA. http://vixra.org/abs/1602.0172 |
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Greetings Woodcutters! As you have noticed we have passed the 300,000 block mark recently. The checkpointless distributed peer-to-peer currency with a sustainable money supply curve lives on! Many thanks to all of you for this milestone and for all the interesting discussion and learning (by me at least) that has resulted. A few related publications to bring to your attention: The Woodcoin whitepaper: http://vixra.org/abs/1602.0033is translated to German here: http://vixra.org/abs/1602.0172Some comments in Japanese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2rCmZOMhtwPlease bring any support questions to IRC chat on freenode, channel #woodcoin: http://webchat.freenode.net/ |
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The problem with btc is to cashout to bank account. .. The exchangers will charge fees, so what's the benefit??
Why is the car a benefit if you tow it with your horse? |
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Well thanks  I'm not sure I get it though. The "Quantus" appears to be.. difficult to quantify. Like many issues in security.. it's not clear how much is needed until it is too late. For some things, as Schneier says: commerce is strongly resistant to security holes. In other words: people want to make it work. One need look no further than legacy or fiat systems to see this is the case. These systems have no public confirmations, are counterfeitable, are often "pull" type, etc. etc. Security seems absent. Yet people make it work. For the most part people want to pay and do business, so they will make it work even when the Quantus is not reached. On the other hand, trustless transactions will need to have some estimate of the quantus. Exchanges need to make a decision about how many confirmations to require. To quantify the quantum quantus is a noble endeavor! For some of my related thoughts on the matter: http://frass.woodcoin.org/godzilla-vs-the-51-attack/ |
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I"m bad at math and I'm just doing this in my head. so... Some input would be nice.
So... 24 hours in a day, 60 minutes in each hour, gives us 1440 minutes per day, every 10 minutes a block is mined for a total of 144 blocks a day with a reward of 25 bitcoins for each block, for a grand total of 3600 bitcoins per day. At the current price of bitcoins $400 that's 1 million 440 thousand dollars each day we spend on securing our network. The current market cap of all bitcoins currently distributed is 6,138,792,511 USD.
So we are paying 1.4 million dollars a day to protect 6.1 billion dollars in total value? Not bad I guess but what happens when the price of bitcoin goes up and the block rewards go down?
Lets do this again but this time lets make the price per bitcoin 1,000 dollars and the block reward 12.5 bitcoins.
So... 24 hours, 60 minutes, 1440 minutes in a day, 144 blocks a day but this time only 1800 bitcoins are produced worth 1.8 million dollars but now the market cap its protecting is much higher, 15 billion dollars minimum and much more as bitcoins are released.
What happens when bitcoins are worth 10,000 or 100,000? Will it be enough to secure our network when block rewards fall to 3.125 bitcoins?
144 blocks * 3.125 is only 450 bitcoins per day to pay for our network. Currently transaction fees are less then 1% of where they need to be to maintain our current level of security after the halving in just 21 weeks.
I am happy to see more people are asking this question. One point is that there is no need to convert to another currency to analyze the situation. The current "security spending" as you put it, which is basically the cost of double spending or 51% style atacks, is 3600 bitcoins per day. That would be true if they were worth 10 or a million funbucks each on exchanges. Conversion becomes necessary when one needs to consider if this security is enough to move X funbucks anonymously, etc. The big question mark, as you have noted, is the fee. The fees will have to jump to maintain the security, no question about it. Can they? Will people find ways to still use the coin? The answers aren't clear in my mind, as there is interplay with payment services, altcoins, and other factors. You might be interested to read the woodcoin whitepaper which addresses this issue, but I don't have any answers for you sorry |
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Perhaps some of your difficulty in understanding what is going on is that you are ascribing "the US" and "China" as real entities capable of action or intent. In fact they are labels that real individuals and actors capable of action use as shields for various purposes. This is well discussed by e.g. Buckinminster Fuller's books describing "England".
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Sell everything is right.
Start with the dollars, the pounds, the yuan, and the yen. If you have any of those, sell them first.
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Your (non-fee) security against double spending is cut in half.
If that worries you, take a look at the rationale behind woodcoin, which seeks to find a balance between inflation and security against the double spend.
woodcoin.org/woodcoin.pdf
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Bitcoin will always need some kind of reference. And fiat and/or gold will be those references. How else can you estimate its value?
Beer, oil, big macs, rice, MW of electricity, gallons of gasoline, cigarettes, a month of rent in san fran.. shall I go on? Exactly, there are basic things which only fiat can take care of, bitcoins cannot be helpful at that stage, and I don't see in near future that we can buy basic stuffs using bitcoins.  I didn't mention counterfeitable tokens at all here. "Only fiat can take care of" What could that possibly even mean? You can always trade stuffs for any other stuffs. Always and anywhere - not only in the future but right now and forever in the past. Go, negotiate a price already!! |
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Visa can value their TX in bitcoin. There is no "need" here you have identified yet.
what do you mean their value in bitcoin? i'm talking about tx volume...the need is not for now is for the future in case bitcoin will embrace greater adoption to the contrary of popular belief, a big adoption can actually happen in a short time, so if it will happen there will be no time to implement the ideal solution Visa is not a currency, they are a company. They are a payment provider enabling payments IN ANY CURRENCY which could be bitcoin, gold, or even obscure private scamcoins like funbux or yuros. If you are a merchant, call them up and say you price your goods in bitcoin, and you need to receive payments from them in bitcoin. After all, I have a visa card, and I want to buy something from your shop that costs .005 btc. yeah but this what have to do with the limitation of bitcoin? do you're really think that if visa were to use bitcoin instead of fiat, the issue about the block limit would vanish? Not really, the issue about the block limit won't ever vanish. Unless of course the issue is that "visa can do XX TX per second and we can't do that with bitcoin" in which case, there is no issue. |
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Bitcoin will always need some kind of reference. And fiat and/or gold will be those references. How else can you estimate its value?
Beer, oil, big macs, rice, MW of electricity, gallons of gasoline, cigarettes, a month of rent in san fran.. shall I go on? |
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I find bitgo little bit more secure and also faster and free like coinbase. I am long time blockchain user but i will also give now try to bitgo instant. I think this is the reason for almost everybody out there using multiple wallets.
(trying to explore new feature, searching cheapest, fastest or secure service.)
You didn't mention any wallets. Just sayin.. A bank is not a wallet. |
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Well, most people have the opinion of most cryptocurrencies being rather unsustainable. It's an opinion that we should respect. We don't have to agree with it, but we surely do have to respect it.
Hmm maybe I just roll in different circles but I've never heard that opinion. I would respect anyone stating their own opinion, just for that as it is.. but in this case.. where is that person or the "most people" you refer to? I don't see an argument to respect here. |
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If there are no more coins to mine, bitcoin would still survive only if prices are high and there are still miners that process transactions. Miners can still profit from fees, though. That is the only incentive they will get once there are no more coins to mine.
We should not forget that in future we may have better cost effective hardwares for mining and cheap electricity.If that happens,mining will still be profitable low fee even if bitcoin price is around 500$-1000 $ Hardwares changes nothing except who has access to them and thus who is getting the miner rewards. Difficulty adjustments factor out hardware differences. |
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This question's answer is basically the same as the answer to "What is there is no more gold to mine?". Well the currency supply stabilises and if the user base continues to grow, that would mean there is deflation instead of inflation!
Not really. Transaction security using gold has nothing to do with miners. Transaction security using bitcoin has everything to do with miners. |
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I think they're missing the spot: we are still at the mining era.
This era will last until the 21 million bitcoins come to exist, onwards the tx fees will dictate the market and the hashing power will most likely be way lower.
Blocksize, compression, light chains, whatever scalability solution will come, will handle the tx rate issues.
That's an easy one. We sure may wonder what will happen when this is over, that's a good question, but let's be honest, I don't care about the answer. Really. And nobody here should. We'll be gone when this happens. If you really don't care about things that happen after "you are gone".. this means you are a small child. Seriously, grow up and start caring about the world. This is it. |
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3) Charge people extra to give you their TX directly and put them in the block. This is the way things are going eventually as TX relaying appears unreliable and unrewarding.
Ok but how do you market your service to people? Website with form, similar to e.g. https://blockchain.info/pushtxAlong with APIs. The biggest pools will all have these, though there will also be consolidators (third party companies) that will navigate and get your tx submitted for you according to your specifications and ability to pay. What, you think people gonna maintain multi GB mempool and bandwidth for free even when bitcoin is ubiquitous? |
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