Aww. Did your bitcoinica shorts not work out the way you had planned?

It wouldn't seem so anyway. Too many people shouting and blabbing on this forum about how they were waiting for sub $2 prices.  

I hope all you of you who were shorting on bitcoinica have taken your profits already.

Back up to $2.20 with a 50k wall at $2.
So much for the $1.xx prices so many of you were hoping for.
Not tonight anyway.

Edit: scratch that, now it's 100k bitcoins required to get back to $2.

Somehow, I find that hard to believe.

Even I have to admit that this is fun.

It's a pity you all panic sold and now have nothing left to take the wall down with, isn't it?

A drunk robot seemed more appropriate.

They trigger the screw ups anyway. The 'manipulators' are capable of determining the points where the bitcoinica orders are placed, and casual traders on MtGox are not. You simply give manipulators a new tool to better manipulate the markets you hedge on.


If (or should I say, when) they can buy these things directly with bitcoin, then they will not rely on fiat currencies to work. This is something that we should be encouraging along.


Yes, but operating an invisible instrument that trades on MtGox, which might at any point kick you in the face by accident, is certainly not a good idea either.


And there you have it... you are simply offloading that risk onto the shoulders of the users of the exchanges. How noble of you.
Without risk, there should be no reward.

I'm not suggesting we should do such a thing. The world of fiat finance is far from 'real' though. Hard assets, commodities, stocks and shares are real. Fiat money is a fiction. What I am saying is that people need to realize that the value of a bitcoin is not solely determined by how much it can be bought or sold for in fiat money. There are many factors, but that seems to be the only one guiding everyones behavior around here.


So sell the fiat you have for something that someone else is willing to pay for in bitcoin. Or else provide some other sort of good or service that people are willing to give you bitcoin for. Why do we need to peg what we consider the VALUE of a bitcoin to the fiat exchange rate?

I know there might be some reasons for wanting to do it in the early stages, but I'm suggesting that people should not be too fixated on the fiat exchange rate. They are missing the forest for the trees.

Could you not bring light to the darkness of the bitcoinica pool and open your order books the way MtGox does? That way people who don't use your service wouldn't get instanlty screwed when your 'dark' limit or stop orders kick in unexpectedly.


Do you think it is a good idea to give someone with just an email address, who you have no idea the identity of, instant credit at will; allowing them to leverage themselves against bitcoins that might not even exist? Those leveraging themselves might not have the bitcoin required to pay their margin calls, and how would you enforce their payment without a compliant legal system?

+100

The exchange of bitcoin for fiat is pointless. We shouldn't be basing the value of a bitcoin on the exchange rate for fiat. Instead we should start exchanging it for more hard assets, like commodities and bitcoin stocks, instead.

And this is the true manipulation. Everyone shorting on bitcoinica is going to be in for a bit of a surprise once their positions are closed and margin calls come rolling in.

Having bitcoinica around inherently results in instability in the bitcoin market. How many people are going to lose their bitcoin investments before they learn this? It is precisely these sort of financial instruments that are causing the problems in our existing monetary system.

The best way to deal with the short term instability of bitcoin, and to best protect your investment, is to stop using bitcoinica. The fewer users leveraging themselves at will with ease the better. Just buy and sell on mtgox directly or invest in bitcoin businesses. You will do better in the long run than by gambling with money that isn't yours.

If someone shoved their fist up your ass slowly, would it not piss you off just as much? Or would you be ok with that?

If you can only think on short time scales, you are going to eventually get screwed in the long term. At least with bitcoin, the fluctuations are due solely to participants in the market, rather than the institutions who actually control the monetary systems across the world.

Over time, stability will come. Stop asking from bitcoin what it can't give you right now. The client is still in 0.4 beta.

If you want true stability, invest your money in actual bitcoin businesses rather than on casino games like bitcoinica.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/APU0000702111?data_tool=XGtable

I wouldn't call 50% a 'tiny' fluctuation...

The problem, as I'm sure you are aware, is that it doesn't.

So the reason we transact with fiat is because it doesn't lose its value? Uh huh... tell that to Mr. Bernanke and his printing presses.

The reason we transact with fiat and not bitcoin is because the bitcoin system does not have states, military, and legal systems supporting it. If the dollar had none of that, it would be just as insane as bitcoin. But when fiat currencies die their slow death, bitcoin will still be around.

Failing to understand my post and mocking me just makes you sound ignorant.

There might be no rational reason right now, no. But there are plenty of irrational/psychological reasons based on potential future valuations. There is also no rational reason why the USD or the EUR is worth anything either, other than a thinly veiled 'promise' from central banks and nation states. It doesn't stop you from buying your milk and bread with it.

I have paid this months dividend. Here is a breakdown of this month:

Total Downloads: 407
Total Users: 67 and growing steadily.
Total Income: 29.53215 btc.

30% shares held by shareholders = 8.859645 btc
- October dividend overpayment: 6.30582962
= Net Dividend: 2.55381538 btc (0.00851271793333 btc/share).

Unfortunately, due to the overpayment last month the dividend per share is quite low. However, the earnings for the month have been significantly better than last month (330.6% higher) and the dividend/share should have been 0.02953215 btc/share if not for the clerical error I made with the previous dividend payment. That is a 14.8% ROI from my IPO price of 0.2 btc/share.