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how much does a bitcoin worth?
Some say:“Worthless. It’s just a Ponzi scheme.”
Some hail:“Priceless! It’s the future of money.”
A Chinese economist Ou Chengxiao, often nicknamed”Ou Guru” said yesterday "The price of bitcoin is 1000 times overvalued". He believed that the value of currency is decided by its scale of circulation, or adoption. But now the lack of businesses that accept the digital currency as payment has been holding bitcoin back from wider adoption. not so many people are buying things with btc.
i am a little confused why he is so sure bitcoin price is 1000 times overvalued. why not 100? 10? why exactly 1000? Do you agree with him?
It's possible that the price of bitcoins is based on a demand only. What I mean is that people may want bitcoins for the potential and are demanding it as an investment which makes the price go up. But if people want it for that price, then isn't that what it is worth? I happen to think bitcoin is way "overvalued " but not 1000 times in that i think at least 80% of its current price is speculators but in a way it does not really matter. Take me as an example. I own about $8,000 worth of bitcoin. I have $5,000 worth to use eg send to family, friends overseas in an emergency (as a sort of western union). I see $5000 would get a plane ticket out or an operation etc if no travel insurance etc. The other $3000 is to have just in case the price goes up big time. Now say the price "crashes" to $200 which is where I think it "should" be. To have the $5,000 worth set aside I then need 25 bitcoins and I have only 8. So i will buy at least 17 more to get back to where I need to be. I think there would be alot of people out there like me ie have good reasons to buy more bitcoins as the price drops by a decent amount ie at least say 40%. So aside from speculators creating "demand' actual bitcoin users will also create demand so it is not overvalued by 1000 times |
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Finally, back to normal?   not too sure why there is much doom and gloom. Sure BU is a "threat" but bitcoin has faced many threats before and in the longer run it has weathered them all fairly well. And as regards the price dropping? hell we were below $500 a year ago and nobody was saying they were going to commit suicide or by alts or whatever. Why so much noise about it dropping to $1000? Except for a few months around the willybot period if you bought bitcoin over time it has served you well even if we go to say $600 for a while. It will go up again Bitcoin has a huge number of manipulators in it with powerful armies of both funds and market influence so it will have periods of massive "uncertainty" as those people try to maximise their profits. the best advice was what they said during the second world war to the british people - Stay calm and carry on |
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that all makes a bunch of sense to me. even if they loved the idea, if they don't have the info to do their job then they're obligated to say no. the SEC's "reasoning" is more of a lame excuse then anything else. chinese exchanges are in the process of being regulated all the major USD exchanges fallow KYC/AML regulations, a lot of them have a "bitlicense" Gemini itself has a STUPID FUCKING bitlicense. If there job is to "protect investors" one good way they could have done that is by allowing an ETF. we expected a fair assessment, and they fucked us. I think you were expecting way too much. The SEC like any regulator of anything wants to be able to see what is happening in a market so that bad things can be stopped etc. It is correct in its assessment that bitcoin is still the wild west so it is no surprise it has rejected the ETF. Most of us expected this judging by the comments posted on the forum over the last few months. Since they seem to reject Gemini as a market (as the report author mentions) then it seems the Winklies ETF may be fundamentally doomed. And as Bitcoin is unlikely to agree to become more regulated anytime soon and since one of the key reasons many people buy it is because they hate centralisation etc. then we should not be expecting anyone's ETF to be approved for a very long time if ever. |
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why is the SEC doing this to us  Would you rather have a denial??? Each day with no decision = WIN! while the rules clearly allow for them to announce monday afternnon surely the sec has had enough time, devoted enough investigative resource etc that they have made a decision and therefore effective time is close of play Friday.ie they will not need the extra day it affords. so if there is a yes or silence (the same effect?) on friday it will be all go. |
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either way 11th of march will be exciting!?!
 what the hell does "wringling" man i can not find the meaning online  and in case it means something like shakeout of weak hands then i will vote for that. because if believe if the SEC disproves of ETF then there will be lots of dumps and then panic sellers start selling their coins to whales just like every other thousands of times before. and eventually after a short time bitcoin will be back on track. so long term i vote for green option and short term the red. and black is just trolling Here correct word must be WRANGLING What does it mean to wring hands? hand·-wringing. noun. Hand-wringing is defined as an expression of worry or concern. An example of hand-wringing is the pacing and constant twisting of the hands of a person waiting to see if a business deal has gone through |
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Bitstamp fomoing? 1155USD!
Looks like the old ATH can be crashed today already with a bit more of steam.
Kraken also close to create another new ATH.
Exciting day so far.
But I'm not sure about the actual situation.Look at the weekly chart and that massive green candle we see at the moment. There will be some correction coming imo.
this will seem a bit of a downer to many but didn't willybot create the ATH along with many real people jumping in. Since the price finished around $250 after the party then the moment we went past about $400 to me seems we set the new ATH. the question we should be all asking is what % of the current price do we think is manipulation by a few insiders with large holding or easy access to cash to buy. (A far more agile creature than willy). I put it about 80% ie at any time i think the price could suddenly be about $300. Never the less I buy slowly at the going price knowing that over time the price will be $5000+ and even if it drops then my buying today at 1155 is ok. buy and hold and repeat |
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i do expect that the price of bitcoin will trade betweem $850 and $950 for some time,
I don't think so. Too many people want to have at least one bitcoin. true, and not even every millionaire (denominated in $) could have one. there are more millionaires existing than bitcoin. I understand your point, but What a silly one, no? At today's prices, as I type, a million dollars could get you about 1,093 bitcoins, but if you have a million to invest, you might need to diversify a little bit, no? Frequently, I mention to people who might be skeptical about bitcoins, that 1% to 10% of your quasi-liquid investment funds could be reasonable to invest in bitcoin, but if you happen to be fairly skeptical and skittish about today's prices, then maybe you would feel comfortable with only 1% in bitcoin, and all those variations seem reasonable. So, at today's prices, a person who has $1million to invest but is fairly sceptical about bitcoins could still get 10.93 bitcoins... in other words, what seems to be your point, 600watt, those millionaires should act now, while the price is seemingly reasonable in a globally distributed mindset and while supplies last (before everyone else finds out the value of bitcoin). Sure, but the very rich never want anything until it is seen as valuable to *other* rich people and unattainable to the masses. Hence the reason why they'll wait to buy until a bitcoin is worth $500K. Two examples: 1) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning one of the original Apple computer boards until they go at auction for $1M 2) No one wealthy gave a shit about owning an original Superman #1 comic until they go at auction for $3.2M For the super rich, it's all about rarity, subjective (perceived) value, and bragging rights. For the rest of us, it's just about a meager store of value and perhaps some future investment. I agree that the wealthy buy things for rarity, bragging rights etc but not sure its going to happen with bitcoin. First there are potentially 21 million other people that have 1 bitcoin - even in reality if it is say 100,000 it is too many to be seen as rare. Also you cannot really "show off' a string of numbers like you can a physical thing eg first edtion comic book. Finally as the $ value climbs in years to come we may start talking more in terms of 1/1000th of a bitcoin as well as many other levels. Give it a 'sexier' working name than bitcoin eg like "MilleniumCoin" and voila you have a new rarity |
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Maybe this is all Fake News about China and banks... designed to drive down price, buy cheap, and drive price back up by saying China Bank is ok with Bitcoin  the dump was done as the daily candle changed manipulation  exactly i have not slept past 20 hours. continuous watching of the graphs from all exchangers on different screen. it seems that only huobi graph is manipulating everywhere. this graph used to be the highest now its the source of freefall. its interresting to know how many people are still holding and how many have abandoned the ship. i feel a major part of " i am still hodling" posts are mostly people who have sold and are now praying for a rise. r people who are so stressed that they dont have any nails left to bite. there is a huge manipulation from huobi. i am guessing like someone pointed out earlier that they are crashing the market so that their activities look " on point" which also means they have manipulated a lot of the pump and dump recently. the chineese regulation is certainly something to watch but i feel we are in a "bubble bust" once again and this time it will take a lot of time to recover back not even to the ATH but to stable $800 - $900.. forget about crossing $1000. the way the graph is appearing right now does not show a sign of correction and not even something stable for a few days. every 6 to 10 hours there is a $60-100 drop in the price.. all we can do is wait and watch. and all i can say to those who bought higher is to remember that we have seen fall and rise. just hold on your coins and dont panic sell, it will make the market more frenzy and crash more. i am holding 10,000 bitcoins currently, (which i can sign a few 500-1000 btc addresses to prove that i am still holding and not selling or panicking) its high time we take the market away from the chineese manipulators. let the revolution begin. we had gox before which was not Chinese. we know that it is 'wild west' inside most exchnages with fake data, insider use of info etc. So all this is nothing new and it may continue like this for some time. all you can do is make a guess when the manipulators bump the price as to where it may end up afterwards. we have had bigger % drops before eg when we went from$30 to $2 and $1100 to $250. My bushmans guide is to expect the drop after the pump to be about half of what the drop was last time. since the 2013 drop was about 75% I expect this to be about 40%. that makes it about $660 but in a range of +/- $100. Eevn if it drops to say $300 for a while buying coins now at about $660 now will soon seem cheap again as the lowest price in any year seems to be about double what it was the year before. |
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There's very little hint of FOMO, and not a sign of the 20-30% daily blowoff top that generally happens with a bubble. Which would mean we haven't really started the fun yet.
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Going up from $850 to over $950 in a week seems to me to show just the opposite. that is there is lots of FOMO or at least very good manipulation of the price.
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you all ded ?
 writing his IRS tax form ...I love it that we seem to use this pic of selma hayek as our de facto logo. I assume it is because we are aiming for the bitcoin adoption rate to match the attention rate she achieves. Or is it just because...................... |
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The network is no problem. If the need was there the core developers could start a fix within fix. The problem is that there is no real marketing.
Like any product you need to market it and that is exactly what is lacking at the moment.
Agree. people need to be sold on the idea that they should have some bitcoin in addition to their cash, debit card and credit cards and saving accounts.
There are two key benefits that mean everyone right down to the person who has just say $2000 in savings should turn 5% of their savings into bitcoin. First they have direct access to and control of their own money (the digital cash concept ) and second though bitcoin could crash in price it has the possiblity to earn more from that 5% of the $2000 savings than the other 90% in total ever will (the digital gold concept).
To encourage my friends and rellies to get interested I send their teenage kids $5 in bitcoin every so often as a private key. They then go ahead and learn about wallets etc so they can "use' the money or at least accumulate. people need to learn to use the bitcoin stuff (wallets, exchanges etc) so they see it as "familiar' as their bank account number at their local bank.
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I think it should be assumed that for some big miners the cost of electricity is close to zero ie through a range of deals and connections and under the table profit sharing (corruption) they are in reality paying nothing.so the cost to make a bitcoin is more down to the roi on equipment and even then some equipment may be bought using regional or state funding/incentives. My guess the cost produce a bitcoin maybe just $100-$200. |
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I bought another coin at 698$ pretty confident we are going up. and up. and up
I was losing hope last summer, but this year I'm starting to get more confident we are going up. and up. and up. Last summer the best move was to dump when it hit 300 and wait to buy back in lower. This summer each time I expect a retrace it doesn't happen, the price just keeps going up. The best move this summer might be to hold and buy more if you get your hands on some fiat. there is alot of talk of up and up. it sure is going up and will go up alot more - maybe a new ATH. But it will crash. Are people forgetting that the "harvening" simply means 1800 less bitcoins (potentially) coming onto the market each day. there were lots to buy before and there will be lots to buy afterwards. So its just a pump around a low key event. At best I see $400-$450ish within 2 months of the day we "harve". As that is where we are really at. At worst it will be 25% of its high point. Ensure you are not borrowing to buy bitcoins as then it will really hurt. |
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I think the Chinese are making the bitcoin price. The price rose a lot today and it started in China again.
i think the FOMO is making the price. it is currently at $631. back on May 26 - just a few days ago - it was $450 ie up 40% . When it goes up at that sort of rate it is because the whales have got the ball rolling and now everyone else feels the need to rush in. the willy bot got the ball rolling back in the mt gox days but it was the FOMO that took it to $1000. |
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Guys, to be ultra sure that we in the right track and what happened today is most likely an epic scam, check the amount of the new threads created by a throwaway accounts (NLC accounts) stating that it's game over and such BS.
was not the same basic story run about a year ago ie wright claimed or denied or whatever he was satoshi after someone tracked him down? and that his main concern was that he had tax problems. I recall his "proof" of whatever he claimed being questioned at the time as well. it was i think even covered by this forum topic? anyhow in the end it all fell away to nothing and bitcoin got on with being bitcoin |
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This low dip also make me think buying more for short term as we may see another rise upto 500 and than a little drop like this, this is how natural trading curve works. Hope there will be no manipulation in the market.  I am holding all my coin which i bought when price was 390 around so still i am in profit in this dip. No manipulation? since in 2016 market on condition manipulation by big trader see the price stable around $400 for a long time. it's so weird i expect we get new investor to push the price up. My guess is the "price" of bitcoin is at any time about 90% speculation. And we have very sophisticated manipulators moving it around. It is neither good nor bad just a fact. the manipulators ability to influence the market at any time is greater than the possible market moving items eg halving, segwit etc. So its real wild west territory - you can make it big or lose big depending on how much luck your timing is to when the manipulation happens. |
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That's not how speculation works.There is a difference in guessing and analyzing.$10,000 this year will make instant millionaires crushing other economical investors.Not in the history of trades such event takes place,be practical.
A growth like that has happened 3 times already in bitcoin - in 2011 and twice in 2013. Now we are in a similar situation - the price was confined to a narrow range - while more and more people have been learning about bitcoin - the result is that any break out will be amplified - just like it has been in the 3 previous occasions. not sure you are comparing apples with apples. in 2013 it was a few people chasing the willy bot and it went quickly up to 1000 and then down to $250 (oe down 75%) over time. Not sure what prompted the 2011 jump but again the price was down about 70% a few months later. not sure there is alot of pent up demand out there. So if it shoots up quickly and in a big way it will be being pumped. Just ensure you sell out before the next 70% drop from the new ATH or it will hurt. |
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Was bitcoin dead in 2013 when it went from $250 in April to $76 in july 2016?
Price fluctuations are mostly irrelevant.
I have both btc and eth and will continue to accumulate both.
bitcoin=gold or money
eth=oil or gas
that is a good way to explain the difference between them for the man in the street. They both have a place. |
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The halving is priced in or we will see a huge pump? How many percent are your bets?
My bet is nothing much happens. There's a whole lot of noise taking up attention elsewhere. I'll be VERY surprised if we'll have this stable market all the way up to the halving in supply. I mean how accurate do you think they price these things in? by now not only should all the halving be built into the price but so should each persons views on consensus, centralisation of mining etc. So I see it staying the price it is now ie $400+/- 5%. However it seems many posters have confused the halving issue - its not reducing potential 'supply" much at all ie the ability of people to buy coins. We already have millions you can buy and we are just halving the rate new coins come to the market. So once these people see after the halving there is no price rise a share will sell so the price will fall a little. I guess it will take 1 month after halving for them to all sell off some/all of their holdings and it will drop the price about 3%. so the price will then be $388+/-5. So sell some of your coins about mid June and and buy them back mid August for less. A 3% gain is not much in bit coin terms but it is virtually guaranteed. Who does not love free money. Right now someone is buying up* BTC3600 every single day. Come july only BTC1800 in new coins will be available for sale. With so much unknown your 3% math makes me laugh. *Someone doesn't mean one entity. Even if miners decide to carry BTC on their balance sheets then they're doing the buying themselves. when I buy a bitcoin post halving I am not competing with others to buy the 1800 just minted. I am competing with others in a 15 million bitcoin market. The lessening of supply by 1800 is peanuts and will not move the price. yes if miners keep their coins they are in effect buying them but at what price? Or rather what price do they wish to sell to pay for electricity etc. I understand alot of minors sell off market to big buyers at much lower prices than the "going' retail bitcoin price. you are right my 3% is just a guess. But there is no way of being accurate - all i know is the price rise as a result of halving is very very unlikely. what is your guess for the price in mid july? Post it and we will see who is more accurate then. |
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