Not really a credit to your credibility.



Because I like to see legitimate lenders do well.


Well, paying off your debts early isn't necessarily a sign of illegitimacy, but if your 'investments' are really doing so well, then why are you asking for loans elsewhere? A bank managing the deposits of other people has no right to issue debts to a senior creditor. Keep up the revolving loans and pretty soon you'll be Greece.


How does someone who has supposedly paid off several loans faithfully suddenly have problems getting verified on Mt.Gox? You know, I've had to deal with jumping through all the stupid hoops necessary to buy/sell bitcoins recently, so I can appreciate the difficulty, but at the same time you don't see me trying to take out loans or start a bank when there are so many uncertainties and delays. How can you have been around this forum for a ^%*& year and not know about electrum etc? There's too many things that just don't follow, or else you're a true sped.


Sorry, but half a job is worth zero. If I hire a contractor to build a house and they only build half of it (especially if they screw it up), they have not fulfilled their contract and have no grounds to demand payment.

So, to clarify, "it wasn't worth the hassle" to manage to responsibly pay the interest you've promised on the day and time promised, and it didn't inconvenience you because you got your largest depositor to reinvest so you don't actually have to go to the trouble of returning his money at the time you contracted to return it?



If you actually had a legitimate business, it wouldn't really make sense to pay your investors "several days early". You could be making short term loans or making additional interest on it in some other way.

Also, taking a few minutes or hours to install electrum so that you don't need the blockchain and can actually work with BTC in a timely fashion does not require you to give up your obviously sagacious life. Other lenders on this forum manage withdrawals from many clients and fill them in less than 24h, while making all their interest payments on time. You have what, 3-4 clients? And you can't even manage to handle the interest payment? And you expect people to give you "millions of dollars" when managing a couple of BTC impedes your "having a life" (ie blowing money on coke whores)?



Projection much? There's blatant evidence that you didn't pay him back, as per the other thread, and instead blamed him (and the guy who lent you money) for your failure to deliver what you promised. Now you want him to apologize for something he didn't do, when he screenshotted the evidence that he did reply to basically every message you sent him. Also, that you said it would take "less than a week", and 2+ weeks and two "previews" later it wasn't done or anywhere close.

Ehhhhhhhhh...

Rofl@topic

Interest received. Time to reset the FUD clock another 7 days.

I was mocking him  . I thought it was obvious.


They're probably just ninjas jealous at being upstaged by a pirate.

You grammar is a lies, sir. Maybe you should dedicate an entire issue of BTC Magazine to ponzis. Right after people start buying issue #1, I guess.

sent donatey :X

Actually, at least for me, it just happens to be the time of the month for paying bills.





Hur.

Just got my interest payment on the blockchain. The wonderful wizard of Oz must be awake .

Pro

+1

I didn't know you were doing that x.x. Luckily, nobody seems to have hacked into my account and stolen anything .

In gambling the outcomes are random or near it. In investment you can see a company's earnings (to a point, although it's also possible to learn to recognize fraud), you can call them and ask them what they're doing to improve their business, you can see what tangible saleable assets they have (which may not relate to their main business), you can see how often they've paid dividends (if any) and if they've raised them or not. Etc etc.

Investing properly is like appraising a farm for sale. You already know more or less what productivity to expect out of the land, which you can verify by checking various soil features (assuming you know about farming) and determine whether the price you're being offered is low, fair, or too much. In other words, you get a big advantage by having specialist knowledge into the business you're investing in, whereas in gambling the only advantage you might glean is purely mathematical.

Eh, Peter Lynch has a pretty good system for it, although it certainly isn't a science. My point is that treating financial investments the same as gambling is the wrong idea. Whether a company does well or not, or whether a bank is solvent and can pay your interest or not are much more predictable than, say, whether a particular horse wins a race or whether a marble lands on red or black. In both cases, though you don't get any "well this company has x% chance of doing well" sort of figures to work by, so the equations used in the Kelly Criteria can't apply.

@Patrick: Yes, sort of, but the math and considerations that go into investments (as opposed to gambling) are very different.

@Rygon: I agree, although I don't believe the recent changes are cause for suspicion. I suggest checking out the lending forum. There are a good number of lenders which take deposits and are very transparent about their operations. They pay quite well, too, although not as high as pirate.



I think that's a bit overcomplicated. I also don't buy the whole "Warren Buffet uses this" deal, either. I've read Buffet, and his decisions are based solely on the solvency, competitiveness, and quality of management of the businesses he surveys. He most definitely does not treat investment as a sort of gambling and the amount of money he invests in a company depends on what % of that company he decides he wants to own (based on size and individual merit).

I'm not going to argue here, but I will answer this:


The reason they can offer that much is simple:

They charge borrowers 1-1.5% per day/3-4% per week/10-15% per month. They get plenty of business, too.

Don't take my word for it though, you can check out Hashking's thread for yourself. When he started out he announced his lending activities publicly, and many of his depositors announced their contributions publicly as well. He used to keep his books public as well, but I no longer see them listed anywhere =\. You might ask him about it.

Pirate has not yet limited account size. He's been running 7 months without doing so (and 8 before he does). Also, PPTs still generally have no limits and pay higher interest. Most of his customers are moving or have moved over to PPT programs for these reasons (including myself, although I was not previously a pirate customer). As a result he'll probably be paying 7% to a larger group of people, and may already be doing so through outside interest in the programs. Why would a ponzi seek to give the majority of its clients a raise?


Except that forced withdrawals were not done on an account-size basis, but rather by seniority. Basically every lender on the lending forum has a limit to how much capital they can move in a week. Pirate's method of handling that is simply more flexible than others.


His thread got like 25 pages of spam in a week, mostly idiots with "proof" that him changing his account policy is a sure sign that he's a ponzi scheme. I would have done the same thing.


The SEC is an organization which oversees the largest ponzi scheme in history, they ought to know (funny though, cause their rates are shit). However, I've already mentioned most all of the ways in which pirate's organization differs significantly from the mechanics which would support a ponzi. Next, I think I'll try out that cool "ignore" button everyone's been raving about.

Your math looks about the same as mine. 15-30 weeks or so, maybe slightly longer at best depending on the actual distribution of people taking all their payments and varying interest rates. Technically sending everyone to PPT accounts that all pay 7% would push it towards the lower end of the scale.

++ I've been looking for an adequate solution to this for a good bit now. I've been dreading having to pay ridiculous wire fees, but at 5% I can afford okpay. I'd rather have an aurumx card, but this works .

Lol. You're right, I only read the first part. Now I'm kinda pissed that the link at the end of the story doesn't work. However, the second half still doesn't change anything I've already said.

And some things I forgot to mention.

Including:
-CT never had to deal with a bank run. Even a mild bank run can be a challenge for a solvent financial institution, and it's absolutely indemnifying for a ponzi. Pirate passes the bank run test. (I did mention this)

-CT set things up so that his 'investors' were all paid on different days. This was necessary in order to keep the revolving door going. Pirate pays everyone on the same day, and not all people choose to reinvest their interest. It wouldn't be impossible to run a ponzi under pirate's policies, I think, but it certainly wouldn't make it easier. (but I forgot this)

----------------
Ok I found the second part of the story (telling of the actual #1 scammer on eve), and it seems that the #1 scammer had a policy of never directly paying out interest or principle unless the 'investors' directly requested it. Again, yet another case where a ponzi scheme has significant differences with pirate, and where it is obvious how a different policy would make it easier to run a ponzi undetected. Again, if pirate is running a ponzi, he's doing it in a way that would make it awful difficult for himself.