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121  Economy / Economics / Re: Remove economic nonsense from home page on: August 13, 2010, 11:09:07 AM
Sorry, but I think it's not quite that...

You could, in theory, have fractional reserves of bitcoins, as with dollars. Banks don't create dollars (FDR notes) out of thin air, they create bank account balance out of thin air, and that's is counted as actual dollars in the economy.

Suppose some bank stores bitcoins. People would transfer their bitcoins to the bank and would have an account balance, that they could retrieve when needed. The bank could then lend part of this money without blocking your balance, thus creating fractional reserves.

Of course that, as I said before, there is not much interest in this, because you don't really need to pay for somebody else just to store your bitcoins. You can do it yourself, easily and safe.

Banks do create new dollars out of thin air, it doesn't matter if it's physical paper or account balance as the two are interchangeable. Both are counted as actual dollars in economy as there is no way to tell the difference.

But you are right, I was confused about how fractional reserves work. You could create fractional reserve bank but you are also right that there is no need to actually deposit any money there Smiley Unless people are tricked into it by promises of "investments" and good  "returns".
122  Economy / Economics / Re: Remove economic nonsense from home page on: August 12, 2010, 02:41:04 PM
Having watched Zeitgeist movie and having read one book from mises.org [1], I cannot be an economy expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

1) "instability caused by fractional reserve banking" probably means that in presence of fractional reserve banking, economy enters boom-bust cycle [1]

Bitcoin can protect anyone from instability caused by fractional reserve banking, can it? I can easily operate a fractional reserve bank using Bitcoin, and create fake credit out of thin air. If the created credit becomes significant to the economy, the bitcoin economy will operate in cycles just like any other economy. What "safety" you are talking about? Is safety claim comes from the fact that no fractional reserve BTC banks are known to operate?

You are wrong Smiley

You can not operate a fractional reserve bank using bitcoins, it's impossible by definition because you can lend only the money you actually own and no more. Fractional reserve system works such that you need only 10% reserve of actual money and you can create 90% out of thin air ... you can not create new bitcoins out of thin air like that, you have to actually own them to lend them. And that's why a fractional reserve banl can never ever exist in bitcoin economy no matter how anybody tries Wink

And hello to fellow Zeitgeist member Wink

Quote
2) "Be safe from bad policies of central banks"

By "central banks" you certainly mean "state banks that print paper money".

This seems to be true. Bad problem with central banks is that they print money at will, creating money out of thin air, and that printing is equivalent to stealing money from everyone else, so states are major thieves [1]

Bitcoin is in this aspect very similar to genuine golden money. While in a gold-driven decentralized economy everyone can mine gold and mint golden coins, minting is a business with low profit margin (at least much lower than current "printing business" of state banks").

So bitcoin, while technically a pure fiat money, is very special kind of fiat money that is almost as good as gold in terms of impossibility to create money out of thin air and use these fake money to finance wars, provide bailouts to fractional reserve banks etc [1].

There is some weird gold worship going on in some economic circles, gold is not so special or particularly good money IMO. It does not have any inherent value, I do not need gold in my everyday life and I do not know anybody who does. There is some use for gold but that's not what gives it its value ... in that sense gold is just as fiat as US dollar except it's not unlimited supply of it. But even if we disagree on this which we probably will there is another problem, there is no way for you to know whether there actually is in the safe the amount of gold the bank says there is, this is what led to the fractional reserve in a first place. You do not have to actually create more gold to create money out of thin air, you just have to *cliam* you have. So Bitcoin is much better than gold because you can not fake how much you own.

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3) "The limited inflation of the Bitcoin system’s money supply is distributed evenly (by CPU power) throughout the network, not monopolized by the banks."

This sounds as complete nonsense to me, can someone explain?

Inflation is essentially a process of creating money out of thin air that causes drop of monetary value of money and rise of prices. Bitcoins are not created out of thin air just like gold is not. Is my definition of inflation wrong?

[1] Hans-Hermann Hoppe "The Economics and Ethics of Private Property"

It is created "from thin air" because when you solve the hash, 50 bitcoins just appear out of nowhere Smiley

The trick is that there is no central authority which issues bitcoins so nobody can use this to manipulate the market. It is evenly and at predictable rate distributed through the economy according to CPU power which is the most fair way without any central authority Satochi could think of (and I can't think of any better, can you?)

If it causes drop of monetary value depends on multiple factors, in isolation yes it would result in that but the bitcoin economy is dynamic and if the supply of bitcoins increases just as bitcoin economy expands it can actually be gaining value while new bitcoins are injected. Which seems to be happening now.

I hope I helped to clear up some things Wink
123  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Add "How to help [bitcoin]" on front page/FAQ on: August 10, 2010, 11:05:33 PM
Ah, I saw that already and forgot  Roll Eyes

But it's still buried in the wiki (which is not linked from the main page) and does not contain the most important point IMO, that is *use bitcoins* to provide a service (good). If there is nothing to buy for bitcoins there is no incentive to use them.

Thanks
124  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Add "How to help [bitcoin]" on front page/FAQ on: August 10, 2010, 10:27:24 PM
I think many people are wondering what they should do to most effectively support bitcoin and secure its successful future. It would help to have this explained somewhere visibly. I believe the best thing everybody can do is to offer services and goods for bitcoins, that's what makes a currency useful, an ability to exchange it for as much diverse spectrum of what one might want as possible. It's also an investment as with every new thing that can be bought for bitcoins the value of bitcoins themselves rises.

This can take many forms, it could be game (items for BTCs), support forum (BTCs as reward), micro-donations ... anything, but I think it's best to start with the virtual stuff ... or not Smiley creativity is key ...
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