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Yeah thats right, appreciation in fiat would happen. Maybe there is no difference whatever currency we're looking at. If you buy a house of $500.000 now, and bitcoin adoption *happens* (lets say 15 year), you can sell the house for either 5BTC or $2.000.000. Wealth is preserved then. However I still can't get my head around the 'new' to be notorious  bitcoin ultra-rich just being added to the pool of rich people just out of thin air, it must come from somewhere. If I have the 5BTC now and hold them, I would be able to buy your house in 15 years, while currently it's almost worth nothing (lolz...well getting close). |
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If their real wealth is not confiscated or expropriated during the process of crytpo-currency adoption, they shouldn't care. Say, you have a house, and its price can be denominated both in dollars and bitcoins (or any other currency for that matter). Does this playing with figures change its real value?
For real estate value is more constant (thats why mortgages exist), however I indeed think the ultra-rich are sitting on heaps of money....well not literally but think of investments, shares, etc. I also think that the market cap that bitcoin represents is partly (mostly?) taken from the market cap of fiat. So yes, in a way, their wealth is expropriated from them because of devaluation. |
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This is simply not possible for very simple and rather obvious reasons. The main of which is that wealth doesn't mean money (though it can be described or calculated in money terms, since it's one of money functions). Wealth is what you can (or cannot, for that matter, lol) buy with the help of money, not the money itself (bitcoin or not bitcoin)...
Ok, you're right, it's not wealth, it's just money. Even if you had a trillion dollars in cache cash piled in some warehouse, you still wouldn't be able to buy a country since nobody would sell you power. Real power can only be taken, often by force. Money can only help you here in an indirect way (bribery, mercenaries, etc)...
Are you saying that the fiat or bitcoin rich have or will have no means to effectively use their (financial) power? I agree that buying a country might not be plausible, however there must be quite some ways to obtain wealth. When we're assuming we're moving from a full-fiat economy to a mixed economy including bitcoin (or other crypto for that matter), would you say that the fiat-rich will have no means to influence crytpo-currency adoption and can only maintain the same level of richness by shifting part of their financial portfolio to crypto? |
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So what happens to these btc? They are also making all of ours more valuable by being completely inaccessible?
BTC-e will pick them up sooner or later... |
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They would spend it on whatever they'd like  ....to get more power potentially... But I suggest that the superwealthy of today (in fiat) are not the same people that hold most of the BTC. Is the change of one group to the other not hampering BTC adoption (especially since you mention the wealthy control many things like public opinion)? |
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Interesting, so I agree the divisibility of the currency itself is not a problem. Even the bit-wise convenient satoshi*10^-3 is more than enough. Do you think the need for massive deflation for bitcoin when successful adoption of the coin *occurs*, is being hampered by the current distribution of the money supply? Simply put, everybody on bitcointalk (owning some coins) now are the future miljonairs? The rich in bitcoin now, are going to buy their own countries?  Does it really seem feasible to expect such a sudden shift of wealth? |
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We should have more information soon. Definitely within 24-48 hours.
Thx, looking forward to news!
Thanks, bud, but even the Mighty Phinn is prone to err, so always try to see every side of the story in case I mess up, not saying that this is the case here, but I am going into chill mode and will continue to monitor this thread. If I read/feel something that doesn't smell the past test, I'm post a kindly penned question, ending with a "Thanks, bud."
~Bruno Kucinskas
Wow, that's an unexpected change (yes I did read the whole lot). I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong or can be (dis)trusted....I can almost only conclude you must have spotted something in whatever has been driving your quest that makes you doubt your previous statements (maybe only ever so slightly). Interesting... It is my understanding that from tapeout to receiving packaged chips averages about five weeks. This means that you (as in your team, not necessarily you personally) were aware on or about December 15th that you would be unable to hit the target.
But he did say they should have notified earlier....implying directly when they found out about the delay, which, like you mention, did not happen. |
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Yes, interesting case. Yet it would not be fully representative of the current (fiat) monetary systems. By observing the system, you change the system (hint at quantum properties (i.e. wave-particle duality)).
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Added dust to the Wiz's gf fund too |
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I have everything in place to flash the unit, from my pi, but as i was seeing such good numbers ( as im writing this its running at 7.7 avg ) I started to think twice, hence my posts here.
7.7 GH/s avg for 2 chips is nice (on stock? interesting to see what firmware you got??) You might think you can flash it via USB, but you need an JTAG programmer such as the Atmel AVR DRAGON afaik...you have that? |
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For example - there are 40 pins that provide IOVDD and IOVSS - do you really have to have 40 pins for that? Do they have to deal with that high currents?
Well, they do need quite some lines I think... Rough estimation is that @0.85V and 0.5W/Ghs they would need to have ~59 amps (100ghs*.5W / 0.85V) per chip (not including losses and such and assuming 1 chip per 100ghs device). And the other question - heat - what are the plans to deal with that?
Is the silicon going to be exposed (BFL-like) where users can attach a proper heatsink? Or is heat going to be dissipated through the PCB? If the second then bitfury-like packaging with a huge pad underneath the chip (and tons of vias on the pcb) will be better than a bunch of balls/pins.
Yes, heat is going to be substantial, but 50W is not too crazy for a chip with a large heatsink. Pictures of testing heatsinks have been posted as Carlton is mentioning. On the first question - you probably haven't looked at the specs. There is a separate set of VDD/VSS pins for the CORE - that's where the main current goes. Those are okay to be as many as needed (but also don't have to be more than the necessary). The IOVDD/IOVSS part is for the interface portion - where the chip communicates with other chips - there isn't any noticeable current going there. I'd be surprised if more than 50mA goes through those. I briefly went through them, but you're right, they are only interface. I guess that the selection of the combination of nr of pins and number of on-die transistors for the package is always a tricky one since SHA256 takes huge amounts of power (in comparison to others). So maybe they have plenty of pins anyway because they selected the package on other criteria, hence the overkill on the IOVDD/IOVSS? As for the heatsink - I'm not talking about what they plan to put in their retail products. The question is specifically to the chip's packaging. The final product design is a consequence of the chip design.
If the chip has exposed silicon - they you'll see heatsinks on top of the chip (e.g. like BFL). If the chip is meant the send all the heat via the PCB - then you'll see a large heatsink on the back of the PCB (e.g. like Avalon and Bitfury).
So - the question is which of the two options have they picked (and if that's been decided already).
Ah yes, that clarifies. I was looking for some data on the maximum recommended power which you can transfer through the PCB, yet didn't really find anything yet. I do feel that putting roughly 50W on 1 location on the PCB is really a demanding setup for a good thermal via design, especially with the already demanding pin configuration. So my best guess would be top-cooled dies... |
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I propose we merge custom hardware into mining hardware: All viable bitcoin mining hardware today is "custom" to some extent.
Agreed I also propose we create a "mining hardware development" subforum to host the small amount of actual development discussion.
Thoughts?
Hmm, from a maintenance perspective...how can you easily establish 'development' from the 'established' products? What I tend to see atm is lots of initial discussions (dev) possibly resulting in a real product. Obviously the market will mature more and more, having more established manufacturers posting on their new and directly deliverable products. However I feel that maintaining that is operating in the grey zone (?). |
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I've found too many connection outages/issues with Eligius, a lower hash rate with my miner, no manual payout and a true lack of necessary graphs that the Guild has on your dashboard. I can't speak for the payout system at all, cause I'll never understand it. I've been happy paying the fee at the Guild and fortunately have had good luck there as well. Maybe a fee based pool motivates the pool operator a little more? I don't know, money usually does those things.
Yeah the payout system is somewhat complex....but it works for me . Fees definitely enable having better equipment which can help combat ddos attacks, however I think the operator is very motivated. Resources are always limited, but with lower fees even more so. I'm happy with that trade-off...but thats a personal decision. If you're happy to pay the fee at guild, thas fine too. If you're a miner, there's no thing called luck imo, except when you're referring to incoming hardware shipments . |
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For example - there are 40 pins that provide IOVDD and IOVSS - do you really have to have 40 pins for that? Do they have to deal with that high currents?
Well, they do need quite some lines I think... Rough estimation is that @0.85V and 0.5W/Ghs they would need to have ~59 amps (100ghs*.5W / 0.85V) per chip (not including losses and such and assuming 1 chip per 100ghs device).
And the other question - heat - what are the plans to deal with that?
Is the silicon going to be exposed (BFL-like) where users can attach a proper heatsink? Or is heat going to be dissipated through the PCB? If the second then bitfury-like packaging with a huge pad underneath the chip (and tons of vias on the pcb) will be better than a bunch of balls/pins.
Yes, heat is going to be substantial, but 50W is not too crazy for a chip with a large heatsink. Pictures of testing heatsinks have been posted as Carlton is mentioning. |
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86x on 17/11/13
134x on 23/11/13
rushed with the exchange-rate peak...
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There are 2 posts... the first is on bottom. I guess you havent updated the firmware yet either then.
Are the new boards still shipping with out-of-date firmware, then? I don't think so, I've got 1 bitburner xx this week and it runs out of the box. Order #36x The old miner ran out of the box too. But with the newer firmware they ran better. But like i said, i dont know if the newer miners already have the newest firmware included. Ok...well I'm not sure either, yet I can confirm they can run 8Gh/s+ w/o firmware upgrade. I can't compare with previous batches myself, is there any way I can read the firmware version? I don't think so, I've got 1 bitburner xx this week and it runs out of the box.
Order #36x
order #36X as well, nothing here yet - no email, no updates. I ordered with zefir, batch 3+. What are we waiting for? Sebastians batch here. We kind of know Zefir is processed later (as we speak?).... |
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There are 2 posts... the first is on bottom. I guess you havent updated the firmware yet either then.
Are the new boards still shipping with out-of-date firmware, then? I don't think so, I've got 1 bitburner xx this week and it runs out of the box. Order #36x |
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Just curious - what happens to the transaction fees in this pool?
Atm they are kept by the pool to pay for expenses + some reward for Luke and/or whizkid. |
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Can we excepted bach 7 in the future ? No, aside from the lacking ROI on the avalons and them stopping selling....SebastianJu also posted his views on doing groupbuys (although I think he did well anyway...) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=285966.0 |
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I guess I'm just very unlucky, ordering 50gh and receiving 45gh..   I changed i to I, d to D, in every possible way, no way to turn on 38 or any later chip.. Thank you guys for your help, I will try to fire up the 2nd masterboard with the faulty hcard and another psu, but my hopes are already crushed. Right now its hashing with 20gh, what the.. Have you checked for bad soldering on that particular board? Also the underside of the M-card? See for ref pics: http://imgur.com/a/t3AKxEDIT: especially the I/O pins shorting on that chip 38 would match that behaviour (if you can locate it?) |
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