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1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Dash fails decentralization on: April 21, 2016, 03:50:19 PM
we are arguing: can you verify trustlessly that dash is decentralized.

Can you verify, trustlessly, that any coin is decentralized?

While you're at it, define 'trustlessly' and 'decentralized', since they're your favorite words (apart from instamine).
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Dash fails decentralization on: April 21, 2016, 02:41:12 PM
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The salient distinction is that mining influence in Bitcoin has nothing to do with how many tokens you own. And mining expenditure is ongoing whereas staked masternodes are only deposited once.

We've already explained this before. I am not going to explain again why staking is not secure.

Mining influence in DASH has nothing to do with how many tokens you own either. Miners govern the coin in exactly the same way as other PoW coins - they can fork a chain at any time.

Masternodes/DGBB create an additional governance layer, providing, right now, funds for all sorts of beneficial projects directly from the blockchain.

Nobody is saying it's perfect, finished or a replacement for mining. It is, however, a good working solution <in the present> to the governance issues and decision making malaise that stunt the growth of other coins.
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Dash fails decentralization on: April 21, 2016, 12:05:54 PM

What the Bitcoin, Monero and other well designed coins do is allow you to see the centralization as verifiable data, that's the difference that matters. As I pointed out in my second post.


Explain how mining centralization statistics are 'verifiable data'. How do you know who controls the big mining pools? How do you know if they're not all controlled by one entity/guv etc?


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Now your claim that Risto can destroy the coin by dumping, ect, are conjecture on your part, that I don't agree with, but if he could acquire coins by accruing them through nodes and having voting power through those nodes, I'd agree--in Monero and Bitcoin the governance is done by the miners and miners have a verifiable percentage of power through mining pools. Dash created a new and worse problem by their solution, so not exactly apples to apples. But if you want to argue about mining centralization, there are threads (populated by many members of the Monero and Bitcoin community) for that. This isn't a dash versus xmr or btc thread. It is a thread about dash's failure to make distribution of power a readily available data set that anyone can objectively observe and make fair and honest assessments.

Your claim that DASH's governance solution is a 'worse problem' is conjecture on your part. Arguably, since all the voting/governance is controlled by coin holders rather than (typically mercenary) miners, there is a vested interest in a healthy coin that provides services as designed.

Also, there is objective/verifiable data on masternodes. We can see a list of public IPs, geographical locations and in most cases determine the hosting providers. This provides insight into the distribution of nodes. Of course, we can't say for sure how many nodes are ultimately controlled by any given entity/person, but that's true of mining too.

Considering you call DASH 'pointless', you write an awful lot of words on the Internet about it.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why Dash fails decentralization on: April 21, 2016, 10:58:54 AM
Dash has decentralized technology (PoW mining, full nodes, masternodes, blockchain governance). There is no debate here.

The point you're laboring is that there's no way to prove this technology isn't operated/controlled by a handful of people. You claim that because DASH's distribution is unverifiable, it's fatally flawed as a 'cryptosystem'.

For this argument to have any substance, you should demonstrate how competing coins solve the relationship between node/coin distribution & centralization. Bitcoin for example has massive mining centralization and millions of coins held by Satoshi / persons unknown. All PoW coins face mining centralization issues at scale. Monero has a massive whale in Risto who could manipulate/trash the market at any time and arguably kill the coin. Monero's core team could arguably kill the coin if they wanted to. As for governance, explain how DASH's blockchain governance is inferior to other coins where decisions either don't get made (Bitcoin) or there are just a few individuals pulling the strings (Monero).

Basically, make some reasonable, specific arguments instead of just bleating on about the instamine.
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [DASH] Dash - Building the IoM | Dash Nation Progress Thread on: April 17, 2016, 08:03:07 PM

Anything not to help the persistence of topdown systems as we move toward the information age.


Lurk mode OFF.

Dude, you keep labouring the same tired points about masternode rewards increasing centralization.

Node holders are just as likely to sell their reward coins (as miners do) or cash out of the market completely at some point. Nodes earn ~10% pa, so assuming the count doesn't increase (which it will) each node can only foster a new node every ten years. Hardly the centralization clusterfuck you're painting.

Also, the point you so tragically fail to address is that DASH - like most every other cryptocoin, is in DEVELOPMENT. You describe the outcome of DASH with no concession to how it may develop over time.

Now stop fucking posting. We get it already. You hate DASH because if boils your blood to see 1 DASH trading at 6x the value of 1 XMR.

Get the fuck over it and do something positive in your life.
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