Will KNC allow individuals who purchased their hardware but are not utilizing the hosting service from byteminr to participate in their mining pool?
If not, how come? (ie. is it a programming nightmare to only allow KNC machines to access the pool and reject other mining hardware?)
There's DDOS issues and the like. Forget about it. |
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will be there a trade in advantage for the 2nd generation of your products starting to ship in March 2014?
What I want is not a 'trade in' at all, but rather preferential ordering rights, as a customer who helped them get off the ground in the first gen and believed and trusted in them. I want to keep my old machine still! |
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But of course, BFL did something so silly where they apparently failed to do optical proximity correction, and this is, apparently, why their power drain doubled. Are you saying this as a fact? If so please link source. No, that's why I qualified the statement with 'apparently,' obviously. However it would explain why their power targets are off by an order of magnitude. And it's one of the more charitable explanations other than outright incompetence. I don't expect Orsoc to pull such a rookie move.
Bitfury also missed original power goals. You saying hes a rookie too? They're not off by an order of magnitude. It's not quite in the same ballpark therefore, is it. A: Rookie mistake. B: Estimate proved optimistic. Sorry, as somebody who already executed the one or the other 65nm/40nm/28nm tape-out including direct contact to foundries, I like to mention that BFL and its design enablement partner for layout generation/sign off (Chronicle Tech?) were for sure not responsible for the OPC. OPC is a task of the mask preparation, which is normally done at the mask house related to the foundry before wafer manufacturing can start. The responsibility for this step has the foundry, which was Globalfoundries in case of BFL. An order of magnitude?  Do you mean 10x? When I remember right, BFL targeted below 1 J/GH and reached 3.2 J/GH. Should be 3.2x. Anyway, a missed OPC would result in a very bad yield, maybe even in no yield. The influence at power should not be that strong. From my point of view, the reason for missing the power target, was the design methodology of the BFL ASIC. It's impossible to run detailed accurate power analysis (e.g. for calculation of a complete hash) during design phase for this kind of design sizes, if you do a full-custom design (hand layout). The reason for this is, that these kind of analysis have to be done at transistor level in case of a full-custom design. I doubt that there is a spice simulator, which can simulate a complete pipelined hash core. If there is one, such a power analysis would take weeks. So I assume, that BFL did power analysis only for small parts of one hash core and than they tried to scale it up (if they did at all). With respect to power consumption they were a kind of blind till late in the implementation phase. I also think that they realized that they have a problem shortly before tape-out. That was the reason why they change the package from a simple wire-bond QFN to a flip-chip BGA late in 2012 to be able to handle the much higher power consumption. I will defer to your wisdom and knowledge in this topic. It's impossible to run detailed accurate power analysis (e.g. for calculation of a complete hash) during design phase for this kind of design sizes, if you do a full-custom design (hand layout). I have not read anyone else say they attempted a full custom design. Someone mentioned the old proverb 'you must walk before you run,' the hell were they thinking. They went for a home-run and struck out at the plate. |
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Havent you heard? Whoever dies with the coolest toys wins the game of life!
Yes, but they don't mean cool as in low in temperature  In all seriousness, yes I could probably do it that way too. However, I have tried that method before with large GPU farms and it is somewhat inefficient and didn't work very well. Also, it gets over 100 degrees here in the summer time almost every day. This huge A/C barely keeps the room below 90 degrees, but the Avalons are much cooler because the cold air from the A/C is blowing into the intakes.
100°F is only 37°C. I think you'd be better off with a couple of these kind of things. More air is probably better then cooler air and certainly it would be cheaper... I think he plans to expand the ASIC farm significantly over time; he's got room to expand on there. Just too bad that Avalon shipped so damn late, there's not much profit to expand with. |
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What browser are you using? Try Chrome dude. |
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I was recently talking with someone who'd attended the Bitcoin conference 2013 and mentioned something I found interesting, and something that I've never heard or seen anyone else talk about, about achieving further efficiency improvements by moving to DC away from AC.
Apparently there are in existence now datacenters that offer straight-up DC, and if you had hardware setup to accept this--what sort of setup changes this would imply I have little idea--you could increase efficiency significantly by ditching AC-conversion losses.
I assume that such a setup would be quite attractive where one is building bespoke arrays of machines for a specific purpose, where thus power draw becomes a significant long term factor.
I think the profitability envelope may be too short for bitcoin mining machines to worry about that for now, but I could imagine someone like Asicminer going that route.
Good idea but the infrastructure for a DC plant inside a data center is a HUGE cost. I guess if you can find one that will host your stuff that is fine. At work we have about 20 node locations that are on DC systems. The walls of batteries are insane. There is one near me, actually. Sounds like you know something about it. Would it be possible to actually run a miner like the Jupiter on DC? How does that work. Does it replace the PSU? Pin directly into the PCB or what. Or is it something a device needs to be planned for from the start. |
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I was recently talking with someone who'd attended the Bitcoin conference 2013 and mentioned something I found interesting, and something that I've never heard or seen anyone else talk about, about achieving further efficiency improvements by moving to DC away from AC.
Apparently there are in existence now datacenters that offer straight-up DC, and if you had hardware setup to accept this--what sort of setup changes this would imply I have little idea--you could increase efficiency significantly by ditching AC-conversion losses.
I assume that such a setup would be quite attractive where one is building bespoke arrays of machines for a specific purpose, where thus power draw becomes a significant long term factor.
I think the profitability envelope may be too short for bitcoin mining machines to worry about that for now, but I could imagine someone like Asicminer going that route.
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But of course, BFL did something so silly where they apparently failed to do optical proximity correction, and this is, apparently, why their power drain doubled. Are you saying this as a fact? If so please link source. No, that's why I qualified the statement with 'apparently,' obviously. However it would explain why their power targets are off by an order of magnitude. And it's one of the more charitable explanations other than outright incompetence. I don't expect Orsoc to pull such a rookie move.
Bitfury also missed original power goals. You saying hes a rookie too? They're not off by an order of magnitude. It's not quite in the same ballpark therefore, is it. A: Rookie mistake. B: Estimate proved optimistic. |
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i dont think the psu really matters honestly. dont waste money on anything crazy. just get a decent well priced unit and you will be fine, just wait for KNC to tell us the specs first.
A more efficient PSU should give you a longer tail--but that's also when you're earning the least, so perhaps it won't matter quite as much, much as you suggest here. |
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And what if when they test the chips it turns out to be well over estimates?
Well obviously the whole exercise was for naught if they pull a BFL on that score. But of course, BFL did something so silly where they apparently failed to do optical proximity correction, and this is, apparently, why their power drain doubled. I'll bet that had Yifu laughing for days and days. I don't expect Orsoc to pull such a rookie move. |
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Also definitely go for an expensive, high-efficiency PSU. Not only will they be more reliable, and save money on heat, they'll generate much, much less heat as well.
Really, do you have a particular brand/series in mind. I was reading about certain platinum-efficiency rated PSUs lately, curious what you guys would put your eye on. |
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Sorry to interrupt the fight but one thing I consider important is details on power supply required so that upon delivery we can all have one ready to go.
Time is going to be crucial especially in the first month with diff increases etc. , you don't want to lose time hashing waiting for an item like that do you?
Personally I'd like to be shopping for mine now and be sure it's the right one.
They've said only not to rush out and buy a 1000 watt PSU "you won't need anything that big." I think 1kw was their worst-case-scenario + room for error figure. I think they're shooting for ~750. |
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Far from it I've insisted you pay by credit card and call your issuing bank and ensure they will cover your ass after the Paypal 45 day window shuts. Mine will. I rang Barclays and recorded the lady in the fraud department on loudspeaker to be super sure. If anything I was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments. Read the damn thread. Oh really, so would you share that with all us? I will be glad to hear such conversation. https://www.kncminer.com/pages/paymentOur payment system will allow the following payment methods:
PayPal
Bitcoin via Bitpay
Bank transfer By the way, why KnC did not included "credit card" in their list of accepted payment method if 'was instrumental in ensuring KnC accepted card payments'? You really are daft, aren't you. Paypal is their CC processor. I'm sure there are people here who paid with CC and can verify it works. And I've read this entire thread and seen nothing to indicate Bitcoinorama is shilling. Your attack is nonsensical and without evidence. |
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Well, I'm really curious what the story is going to turn out to be. This is making me look bad; I promise -I- did receive a refund. Can't imagine why they didn't go on to finish your guys' and yet processed mine :|
You were the testrun... and maybe the example to show that refunds will be done. God, maybe. Just pure luck, maybe I was the first to apply. I feel bad for you guys. |
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Hi Guys
We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."
We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.
Thanks
KnCMiner Team
Woot!!! Debating about upgrading my October Mercury to a Saturn or Jupiter even. Thoughts? I'm hesitant only because I went from 4 jallys to a Single with BFL and I'm currently kicking my ass in because of it. Overall, it was a waste of money to upgrade. I may even lose~ money at this rate because they're taking so long. Not upgrading with KNC because of what BFL did is a bit like not trusting your new girlfriend because the last one cheated on you. You've got to mentally segregate the two relationships. Don't act once bitten with your new girl who hasn't yet given you any reason to distrust her. |
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Hi Guys
We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."
We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.
Thanks
KnCMiner Team
 Thanks for the update  |
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Well, I'm really curious what the story is going to turn out to be. This is making me look bad; I promise -I- did receive a refund. Can't imagine why they didn't go on to finish your guys' and yet processed mine :|
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anyone know the real power consumption?
2.5 watts. |
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Has KNC reached tapeout yet?
I have asked the same question several times over the last days as well.. The natives are getting restless KNC No, only the people that don't understand concepts like "shipping the first boxes in September" are getting restless. We are in July. It is getting awfully close to September. Maybe late September is a more realistic shipping goal >_> |
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You need to verify your account to spend that much via Paypal. |
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