Yea, I do agree with you, it's still functional and not bad if you're sending LARGE amounts, however even for that there are now better, cheaper, faster alternatives. It's like, why would someone use a rotatry dial phone when we now have smartphones, are there still people who will use old tech, FOR SURE! The issue is, the community had the chance to move it in a direction that was revolutionary and stuck it it's original goal and vision, in my opinion they failed.

Now, say what you want about BCH (Bitcoin Cash), I know I'm going to get tons of hate for this, and even I, as much as the next person, hate how they took Bitcoin's name and branding to potentially confuse people. Putting that aside, everything they are doing and have done, is much more in line with the direction I thought Bitcoin would go.

As many have pointed out, it's not Satoshi's project, he left it to the community, I fully understand and get that. The issue is, the community are motivated by greed and profit as much as the next man, so a lot of decisions are being made to benefit miners and hodlrs of Bitcoin as opposed to actually progressing and making the tech useful again.

Like I said though, people need to stop getting their knickers in a twist (not you personally op) but in general, people get far to offended at me having an opinion. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, I could be wrong, I'm not willing Bitcoin to fail, hopefully it returns to the usefulness of it's former days. Too many people in here are just here for the gains, just look at the counter arguments, none have them have been productive and nobody has addressed the valid rebuttals I've given, they just come back posting the same thing like @pooya87 above who goes on about ETH when I've already addressed and answered this, but he's just choosing to ignore it as opposed to telling me why my reasoning was wrong or why he disagrees with it.

In the UK our bank to bank payments take a matter of seconds, wire transfers abroad take a small amount of time, it's not a lie, look up Faster Payment Service in the UK. Most bank transactions take a mater of seconds now.

Yes, transfers abroad, especially for large amounts are silly and can take awhile BUT with PayPal that rules that out, transferwise, so many options.

Even if we're looking at crypto, Bitcoin is so stupidly inefficent, use NANO, STEEM, XLM, XRP, all easily liquidated for many other tradings pairs and they do what Bitcoin does better. Am I saying these will ever beat Bitcoin and slip the rankings, No. Am I saying people should hold these as an investment? No.

I'm saying, you're giving Bitcoin praise for doing something in an hour over banks when there are dozens of projects out there, that are credible, that can do it better, faster, cheaper or free.

We don't know enough about the finer details to give credible judgment on this yet.

From what we do know and the amount of companies, partners and government agencies that have either jumped ship or attempted to make FaceBook's life very difficult when it comes to this, I seriously doubt it will hit the ground running.

It wouldn't even surprise me if they were to withdraw or cancel the plans for the project.

You're right, maybe it was the early community getting carried away BUT Satoshi never stopped this or corrected these people, the vision of what the technology could be and bring to the world was inspiring, right now it's a digital version of god, for the wealthy an asset and store of value.

I'd rather stick to gold.


Stop talking total rubbish, I've seen that EVERYONE is ignoring the fact that I've said NANO is unlikely to succeed or make ground, I simply complicated a few technical aspects of the project that it does well and people like yourself have got their knickers in a right twist about it and start with the childish name calling.

People like yourself have an attitude that everything but Bitcoin is a 'shitcoin' that's just stupid and immature and an uneducated VERY CLEAR biased view. There's many good coins and projects and many companies utilising the blockchain in new, innovative and interesting ways.

You can't just call every coin you don't like a 'shitcoin', to say there's NOTHING NANO does well is just stupid.

Will it be the next big thing, will it be the #1 digital form of crypto cash? No, probably not. People have a habbit here for putting words in my mouth and taking things out of context and rather than mature discussion and calid rebuttals it resorts to childish name calling and accusation of shilling.

Some people need to grow up and learn to accept that there's a wide variety of opinions on here and yours doesn't always have to be the right one.

Selling this league of legends vinyl figure.

Annie and Tibbers. For any League fans out there, a must have to any collection.

Wanting £19.99 in any currency BTC or equivalent.

£3.90 shipping to the UK, willing to post internationally if buyer covers fees.

Here it is:



I'm willing to use escrow if you cover fees.

Let me know if you're interested.

Thanks!

1) NO It bloody well does not, let's be honest here, PayPal 99.9% of the time will work just fine, be instant and without any issues. You're talking about chargebacks and suspicious payments which YES Bitcoin does not have but there's a pros and cons to having this. Sell something with Bitcoin and get screwed over, good luck on getting those funds back.

They both have pros and cons but lets not pretend here that for all payments you're waiting 6 months, that's bloody well not true and you know it. Talking about totally misleading...

2) Oh the poorly configured argument, well if you're going to go down that route that it's 'my fault' and 'poorly configured' then I'd love to hear you argue how this is going to become globally adopted and something my Granny can use and is going to take the world by storm. It's easy to pin the blame on others to hide the GLARING flaws with Bitcoin. Get a grip man!

You're wrong actually, you've taken what I've said, took it out of context, made assumptions and put words in my mouth.

I NEVER said, at any point, that ETH was a better version of BTC or that it should be used as a form of Currency, you're comparing apples to oranges here, they're two totally different things, created for different reasons and purposes.

Do I care that a project is more centralised than Bitcoin NO do I care if it is/isn't an effective currency NO! I was comparing Bitcoin to its original vision not ETH, ETH was never set up to do what Bitcoin does.

XRP for example is said to be very centralised, do I think it's a worthless investment? NO!

To bash on me because I hold ETH is the absolute pinnacle of immaturity and shows your total lack of understanding and your very CLEAR bias for Bitcoin. Ethereum whether you like it or not is #2 and is one of the most utilised blockchains in the space, it doesn't really care whether you like it or not or accept it. It will succeed regardless, it will continue to make waves.

Does EVERY project have to be all the things I was bashing on Bitcoin for not being? HELL FUCKING NO! I based on Bitcoin because it was setup to be these things and no longer does ANY of them.

If your argument is literally just "I'LL HATE ON YOU BECAUSE YOU HOLD X TOKEN OR COIN" then you're stupid, what sensible investor does that, unless you're investing in a very CLEAR scam such as Bitconnect when that was around, then yea, but for a credible project that has weathered the storms and is still here making waves, if you're going to judge me for that then you're not someone I want to have mature discussion with anyway.
What are you using for fees like that? Yea, people can still screw themselves over by using Western Union, there are always alternatives. You totally missed the point anyway, why WOULD you pay ANY fee at all when there are Crypto's out there like NANO, STEEM etc etc that are near instant and have ZERO fees.

Stellar, Ripple all alternative assets that are easy to liquidate and cost significantly less than BTC and are significantly cheaper.

People on here are a complete joke saying I'm shilling, you can't literally point out the positive feature of any project without being called a shill, it's a form of bullying just ganging up and name calling all because someone has a different opinion than you and dares to point out the facts.

A shill would be someone telling someone else BUY NANO BUY STELLAR BUY XRP BUY STEEM, I'm not recommending anyone do any of these things, each project has its flaws and faults, Bitcoin has some benefits over each of those, I'm not shilling just simply stating a FACT.

Give me a valid rebuttal and tell me how NANO, STEEM, XRP and XLM aren't faster and cheaper than Bitcoin.

Total joke guys, at least attempt to have a mature discussion as opposed to name calling, you don't see me sat here calling you Bitcoin shills, that's just immature, I accept that my views are just an OPINION and I very well could be WRONG, to sit there and just call me a shill and deny that there may be credit/weight/merit in anything I'm saying, well that just shows who has a clear bias here.

NANO is not centralised, don't talk utter nonsense please. That's like saying Bitcoin was centralised when it first started out because there wasn't a diverse range of miners yet. There are multiple nodes which users can use and have voting power, just like ANY cryptocurrency, the more people that use it the more decentralised it becomes, every project is faced with this.

People in crypto really need to grow up in general, you praise or say anything slightly positive about a coin you're called a SHILLER say anything slightly negative and you're called a hater or accused of shilling for a competitor.

How can I be shilling when I said that I can't see NANO succeeding in the long run, the better technology doesn't always win, currently BCH/LTC are beating it and seeing more daily use regardless of NANO being cheaper (as it's free) and much faster (as it's near instant) yet it still can't beat these two.

I also pointed out NANO has it's flaws, such as the lack of privacy as well as a wide ranger of other issues. I'm not shilling, I'm just stating a fact, the original concept of Bitcoin that was set out in it's whitepaper, Bitcoin is doing it better, had NANO and Bitcoin been released at the same time, which do you think would be the market winner?

Am I suggesting others invest in it? Am I saying it will flip many of the other coins? Hell no! But I will give it praise where it deserves. Anything can happen in this space but if NANO has not succeeded after a couple of years of trying, it's not going to now as there's not much in terms of innovation and development, like I said it has it's issues.

Let's stop with the petty insults calling people a shill just because they have something positive to say, you're putting words into my mouth. I'm not encouraging anyone here to pickup NANO, they can do what they want, I'm making simple observations and drawn on one of many good and inspiring projects!

Also, I loved the way you used the fact the longest you've had to wait for a payment to clear is an hour, as some sort of redeeming factor! Let's see how people would feel if they had to wait 1 hour for a PayPal transaction to clear or 1 hour for their payment for coffee at Starbucks to clear etc etc.

As for the fees on cards being passed on to merchants, what's your point? We accept these across the bored, as a business owner myself I accept them, they're practically insignificant for the most part. Not to mention with crypto it's just the reverse, now the sender is paying a fee to the miners so the merchant / receiver may not get the fee but flipping roles doesn't make it any better!

Not to mention the fees (if you want a fast payment) can be extortionate and much more expensive than any CC processor.


What's your point? OK, let's re-envision what Bitcoin is, it's now a store of value, great, but what's the value in, it's based in pure speculation, when it hits a ceiling and fails to make the % gains people want then what? What direction is it destined to go in?

Your right, it is a people powered project, that's the point of decentralisation. That doesn't mean people always make the right decisions, in fact, you only have to look through history and see where democracy has often got it wrong or disastrous events occur, Hitler wasn't a dictator you know, he got to where he was through a democratic process.

It's obvious from all the changes made to Bitcoin over the years that profit and ensuring it's success as a store of value is prioritised over everything else, which is fine, the people decide that and it's clear people will put their personal profits and gains before anything else.

The issue is, that can't last forever, the analogy I gave previously about the stock market still stands and I've not heard one single valid rebuttal. You can have something infinitely increase in value, companies that stop providing innovation, that stop bringing new things to the table, that stop offering a service, they crash and burn. Bitcoin can't just be a 'hold it forever and it will keep increasing in value infinitely' asset, there will be a ceiling and without adaption and change it will eventually crash and burn.

We will see who ends up being right, history will tell.

Do I ever think Bitcoin will go to 0? No, very unlikely, do I ever think it will still be as valuable as it is now? Not a chance.


This is my point though, even IF people wanted to actually USE it as a form of PAYMENT it's incredibly ENEFICENT, if people were actually trying to use it to pay for stuff they'd wake up and realise that they're holding onto something that's basically useless, the only use it has is it's VALUE which is incredibly volatile, you may be able to make a good % profit from it but that's about it and how long does that really last. Nothing is infinitely scaleable when it comes to price, no stock or commodity is infinately scaling, when it levels out or when gains become the same or less than what you get from average stocks and it stays like that for a number of years, watch the price decrease and then once that starts it will plummet.

There's just no actual USE for it, when you try and USE Bitcoin you realise it's incredibly ineffective. I don't want to wait silly amount of times for a purchase to go through, look at digital purchases now in the market section, got and purchase an instant delivery, digital product and pay with Bitcoin. You will be waiting forever and a day unless you pay extremely high fees to have near instant confirmation, why would anyone use that when you can pay with PayPal or an alt and have it basically instantly.

Maybe Bitcoin can hold it's value just being a digital version of gold, possibly, but I just feel when it gets to the levels of regular stocks / commodities or drops below them levels, people will start to leave in favour of safer and more tangible assets.

I admit, I could be wrong about everything, who knows, time and history will tell guys. Like others have said, Bitcoin is powered by the people so maybe the community that maintain it wont let it come to that and maybe in the future changes will come into play that make it like it originally was in the early days and maybe that will revive it.

If I was a gambling man though, I'd put Bitcoin on the same road as MySpace was on, far too confident that nothing could come along and defeat it and while MySpace still exists it's nothing compared to it's former glory days, I feel Bitcoin faces the same fate.

That's actually a very VALID argument, what you have said is mostly correct.

Yes, the community are the ones that decide what happens now but it doesn't mean that is a positive thing....

Bitcoin is just a store of value now, once it's hit a ceiling and investors don't get the returns they were hoping for, what then?

Once it's ceased to be a store of value and valid investment, what happens then? What does Bitcoin then become? Because it's broken as a form of peer to peer digital cash.

The stock markets work a very simple way, stocks rise and give dividends because a company continues to innovate and be profitable, those that don't die a hard death, what innovation is Bitcoin offering? What's it bringing to the table that is new or market leading now?

Like I said, it may not be in my lifetime but Bitcoin will undoubtedly die if it does not drastically adapt, right now it wont adapt in the way it needs to because the financial incentive is to keep Bitcoin expensive and as a digital asset and store of value. That can't and wont last forever.

Thank you for a mature reply and genuine discussion, it's much appreciated. I half expected to just got a torrent of abuse and hate for this.

I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your view and opinion. I do think we're on different pages, I think Satoshi made it clear that super fast transactions, that could be sent across the world, at lightning speed, for incredibly cheap was what his passion about Bitcoin was about.

I remember the talk back then how it could be revolutionary for countries and how aid could be given as people could give tiny microtransactions that may not seem like much but added up and in a country where those small amounts could convert to bigger amounts, well that possibility was just inspiring and revolutionary.

I do get it, even as a store of value it still holds VALUE but I just don't think there's anything about it now that gets me fired up like it used to, when I first heard about Bitcoin, when it wasn't making huge % gains, my conversation to get people to invest was about how the technology was revolutionary, how it could totally disrupt the modern financial system. It was revolutionary.

Now, when I hear people convincing people to get some Bitcoin it's almost always followed by "I've earned X amount" or "You'll make so much money" it's literally become all about the gains and that's it. Which is sad. We'll hit a wall where that doesn't hold true anymore and then what?


Yea, I feel exactly the same way as you to be honest.

There is a lot of crap out there but there are also some diamonds and it's just about letting time do it's things and seeing which projects will survive.

When I compare NANO to Bitcoin it's more in line with Satoshi's original vision, but the best technology doesn't always win.

LTC and BCH are out performing and are more used than NANO, that being said NANO isn't without it's flaws and there's a lot it doesn't do or isn't designed to do.

But right now it's one of the few cryptocurencies that I know where people can send a fraction of a penny without losing a single sat, super fast, feeless, microtransactions are truly that, you can send as little as you want with no fee.

Do I think NANO will win and rule the day though? No, sadly not. It has it's flaws and like I said, it has it's flaws.

Time will tell, I'm sure there are many projects yet to come that we can't even imagine that will perform so well and be just as revolutionary as Bitcoin was. Blockchain - the possibilities are endless.

OK, I'm going to prepare myself for the influx of hate here but can we please attempt to have a mature discussion about this.

How in the hell can people claim Bitcoin is still in line with Satoshi's original vision?

How can we even call Bitcoin a crypto CURRENCY, it's really not a CURRENCY anymore and I'll explain why.

I sold my Bitcoin off a long while ago, mainly for the reasons I've given above, I didn't believe that Bitcoin was still in line with what Satoshi originally envisioned, I'm also sceptical about it's long term success.

I've just tried to send £1 worth of BTC to my other wallet, the fee was 25p that's literally 25% in fees.

Sure, lower the fee I hear you say but if I do, I'm going to be waiting an extremely long time for confirmations and for my transaction to go through.

I honestly fear that a lot of people are into Bitcoin from the surge of popularity, after hearing you can get rich quick or people who did get rich quick.

For a lot of early investors who invested before Bitcoin took off, back in the days when you could purchase it for less than a cup of coffee, those investors got in because they were passionate about Bitcoin, they believed in the technology and most importantly, they believe in Satoshi's original vision.

What was Satoshi's original vision?

1) A digital, decentralised currency
2) That could be sent anywhere in the world
3) For fractions of a penny / as cheap as possible
4) In a short amount of time
5) Sending microtransactions to developing countries who were run down by poverty was a big selling point at the time

Most of those things no longer ring true, honestly, it's become terribly expensive to use, it can take such a long time to confirm and as such is now a pretty shoddy currency.

It's not doing anything revolutionary and it's not shaking up the system anymore. Let's be honest 90% of people getting in now, aren't here for the tech, aren't here to create a financial revolution, they're here because they've heard Bitcoin is a good investment that can see returns that make any other conventional investment look mediocre.

People who truly think Bitcoin can displace or replace major world currencies and become a day to day globally accepted form of payment are DELUSIONAL in my eyes.

Why are people going to give up their banks and bank cards when they can:

* Tap & Go - Use Contactless - Pay instantly for free without any fees
* There are so many ways to send payment across borders now for free or cheaper than Bitcoin

Like, there is literally nothing that current forms of payments don't do better than Bitcoin, well... actually... decentralisation but that's about it, that alone wont be enough for Bitcoin to win the day.

I still believe in Blockchain and I'm passionate about how Blockchain technology can revolutionise so many different industries, that's why one of my biggest holdings is in ETH.

I also believe that there is room for Crypto to actually replace currency as we know it, there's still a need for instant, feeless, microtransactions that can be sent across the world. I don't look to Bitcoin for doing that though, projects like NANO, in my opinion, are much more in line with what Satoshi's original vision and passion was.

Obviously, my opinion doesn't matter. Bitcoin will continue to rise because of speculation, because investors don't want to miss out on any gains. People often refer to Bitcoin as being like digital 'gold' now and it really is! What does it actually do that is useful, technology wise? What is it doing that is revolutionary?

Bitcoin has the first mover advantage and I'll always be thankful that it sparked off something amazing, it paved the way for so many great projects and inspiring blockchain technologies; but Bitcoin is literally a store of value now, it's become just like gold, people use it to invest and to save but it's not used for day to day transactions and while it can and is used that way, it is incredibly inefficient compared to other competitors now.

Bitcoins price can not rise indefinitely, there is and will be a ceiling to how far the price can go, that may be $100,000 it may be a million or a billion, regardless, there is a ceiling, once that is reached, once people realise they can't 'make' any more money from Bitcoin and that as an investment it's kind of poor compared to other options, what then? There's only one direction I see it going and that's to the floor right back down with an almighty crash.

How does Bitcoin scale at those levels, the scaling issue has caused so many forks with people having difference of opinions, how do we maintain fees so that miners keep mining but users also keep using.

A lot would have to change to make Bitcoin a valid form of a digital payment system again and the community and devs maintaining Bitcoin seem to be wanting to go down the road of making it a store of value as opposed to a form of payment, not was Satoshi originally envisioned and not sustainable in my honest opinion.

I hear you all, I get it, with Decentraland due to launch and everything, I get that it might be cool to hang up digital art in your virtual house and stuff BUT not at the prices people are saying we're talking three to four figure sums or more for some pieces!

Decentraland itself has become a bit of a joke, people claiming it will be the next Second Life, I doubt it. The thing with Second Life is, you could get in on the action pretty cheap, things tended to cost $ or $$ at the most, never $$$ or $$$$ and the things that did reach three of four figures or more were relatively rare and few and far between.

With Decentraland the MAJORITY of stuff is expensive so without a small loan and remortgaging your house it's pretty much off limits.

I get there might be other virtual worlds that pop up where you can display collectables and stuff but again, they're all just so expensive.

Not only that but even if something is limited and there's 100 pieces of a collectable digital art, there's nothing stopping someone creating something VERY similar or with a slight modification that is hardly recognisable and minting more. Again, all this would be fine if we were talking microtransactions, I'd get it, but we're not, everything is just so expensive.

Like I said, I get it for good causes like the FreeRoss campaign or say if there was a digital collectable for donating/helping with the Australia Fires Fund or something. I get stuff like that but having a meme that is so easily replicated and purchasing digital copy of that for $$$ or $$$$+ is just such an alien concept to me.

Who's buying this stuff, millionaires, early crypto investors who struck big and can't liquidate most of their funds?

Madness!

That's some hell of a jump to go from 100 USDT as a test to over 21,000 USDT

I would have done it in 1,000 USDT instalments or even 500 USDT just because I'm over paranoid like that.

I really do hope you manage to get this sorted out, really not acceptable.

I never understand why people even go to the effort, like, you'll probably be refunded by PayPal and his account is going to be screwed and PayPal will chase them for the money.

Sorry you've had to go through this, it's a shame that people are so dishonest in this day and age.

I honestly just don't get / understand it.

Why would someone want to own some form of digital art or meme, that, let's be honest, often aren't really unique anyway.

I get people wanting to own actual art, hang it in your house, make your surroundings look better.

Half of these meme's being sold on dapps or listed on opensea are just awful or aren't even unique, I'd literally rather find the image on Google and just save it to my computer. I honestly don't get the rage of these or why they're taking off so much.

Are they supposed to be some novelty type of digital pokemon card?

I get stuff like GodsUnchained because it's a game, it has a purpose, but then you get the likes of memefactory, where you can buy a digital meme and claim ownership of it just for the hell of it?

I don't get it?

Don't get me wrong, there are times I see a place for it, I purchased a lot of the digital collectables from freeross.org/digitable because it was for a good cause and I believed in it, but honestly people paying CRAZY money to the digital right to a meme that isn't even unique is absurd. I'd get it if it was a bit of fun and cost pennies but people are literally paying hundreds for this stuff.

I don't get it, am I missing something?

We know that viral outbreaks have affected the stock markets before now, it's likely that a continued rise in the coronavirus and as it spreads further around the world, we'll likely see stocks take a hit from it again.

It's not unreasonable therefor to imagine that the price of BTC could be negatively impacted. I think it's because, when crisis's like this hit, people are often left with costly medical bills or unplanned expenses travelling to see friends / family, as they start to withdraw from investments and that has a bit of a negative trickle on the economy, more and more people start selling them.

Maybe it wont, ultimately who knows? I could be wrong and I think a lot of it is going to depend on how bad this situation gets. If it does just fizzle out then we may get through this pretty much unscathed.

I can do this, can you sign a transaction from one of your old addresses, ideally posted before the past two weeks, please?

Hi,

I'm selling these three, collectable, DORBZ figures.







Price: £10 Each

Postage: £3 UK

WorldWide Postage: Buyer Must Cover Cost - Your Choice of Postage

Payments Accepted: Any Crypto of Your Choice or Fiat

Discounts: Free postage if buying all three together in the UK.
 

You can buy a lot of silver coins on eBay too

They're still considered a collectable, some DORBZ and FUNKO products can be extremely rare and expensive as well.

Regardless, noted, I'll also post in that section.

Hi,

I'm selling these three, collectable, DORBZ figures.







Price: £10 Each

Postage: £3 UK

WorldWide Postage: Buyer Must Cover Cost - Your Choice of Postage

Payments Accepted: Any Crypto of Your Choice or Fiat

Discounts: Free postage if buying all three together in the UK.