Is the US national "debt" an illusion?

[deisik]

I have little doubt that US dollar is going to crash... crash really hard. I don't know when, perhaps not the next 5-10 years... but it will happen, and all the other fiat will follow. The result will either be world war or the build up of a new monetary system. In case we don't all die, then will gold,silver and digital currency play an important role in building up the new system.

It seems that you are confusing cause and effect. The end of many fiat systems had been a result of a preceding war (e.g. the spectacular destruction of the Weimar Republic monetary system after WWI). Needless to say that the present-day monetary system was established in 1944 when the end of the ongoing war was near while its results were abundantly clear...

So what you preach for may actually turn out to be nearer than you contemplate, though not in the order you assume

[jjacob]

I have little doubt that US dollar is going to crash... crash really hard. I don't know when, perhaps not the next 5-10 years... but it will happen, and all the other fiat will follow. The result will either be world war or the build up of a new monetary system. In case we don't all die, then will gold,silver and digital currency play an important role in building up the new system.

It seems that you are confusing cause and effect. The end of many fiat systems had been a result of a preceding war (e.g. the spectacular destruction of the Weimar Republic monetary system after WWI). Needless to say that the present-day monetary system was established in 1944 when the end of the ongoing war was near while its results were abundantly clear...

So what you preach for may actually turn out to be nearer than you contemplate, though not in the order you assume

In today's context, a world war is unlikely. Countries have too much to lose by going to war.
The US, however, might attack any country which is an irritant. Suppose the Sauds decide they want to price oil in Euros, they won't last very long. 

[deisik]

I have little doubt that US dollar is going to crash... crash really hard. I don't know when, perhaps not the next 5-10 years... but it will happen, and all the other fiat will follow. The result will either be world war or the build up of a new monetary system. In case we don't all die, then will gold,silver and digital currency play an important role in building up the new system.

It seems that you are confusing cause and effect. The end of many fiat systems had been a result of a preceding war (e.g. the spectacular destruction of the Weimar Republic monetary system after WWI). Needless to say that the present-day monetary system was established in 1944 when the end of the ongoing war was near while its results were abundantly clear...

So what you preach for may actually turn out to be nearer than you contemplate, though not in the order you assume

In today's context, a world war is unlikely. Countries have too much to lose by going to war.
The US, however, might attack any country which is an irritant. Suppose the Sauds decide they want to price oil in Euros, they won't last very long. 

The First World War had been even more inconceivable back then, right on the verge of it. No one could even dare to think when it will start, how bloody it will be, or how long it will last. It happened all of a sudden and then belligerent nations went totally mad. Saudis can't decide to price oil in Euros since they are allowed to sell oil for the US dollars in the first place, and then invest the proceeds into the US Treasuries...

[TinEye]

I have little doubt that US dollar is going to crash... crash really hard. I don't know when, perhaps not the next 5-10 years... but it will happen, and all the other fiat will follow. The result will either be world war or the build up of a new monetary system. In case we don't all die, then will gold,silver and digital currency play an important role in building up the new system.

It seems that you are confusing cause and effect. The end of many fiat systems had been a result of a preceding war (e.g. the spectacular destruction of the Weimar Republic monetary system after WWI). Needless to say that the present-day monetary system was established in 1944 when the end of the ongoing war was near while its results were abundantly clear...

So what you preach for may actually turn out to be nearer than you contemplate, though not in the order you assume

In today's context, a world war is unlikely. Countries have too much to lose by going to war.
The US, however, might attack any country which is an irritant. Suppose the Sauds decide they want to price oil in Euros, they won't last very long. 

there are some poor countries that may go in war, they have nothing to lose, and much to gain if they can win the war, but their problem is that they don't hold a large military weapons, hence they prefer to leave the thing as they are now, the best they can do is helping another country or another movements, like ISIS, in destroying their enemies, if they share the same opponent

[BillyBobZorton]

All that wealth will soon evaporate when the markets crash. I keep telling my friend to sell their overpriced house, it's priced out of range for almost the whole target market and there is no upside. They have no plans to sell. It's too bad, when the house loses most of its value they'll probably sell. Real state investments are addictive and some people can't let go their properties even in critical situations.

[deisik]

In today's context, a world war is unlikely. Countries have too much to lose by going to war.
The US, however, might attack any country which is an irritant. Suppose the Sauds decide they want to price oil in Euros, they won't last very long. 

there are some poor countries that may go in war, they have nothing to lose, and much to gain if they can win the war, but their problem is that they don't hold a large military weapons, hence they prefer to leave the thing as they are now, the best they can do is helping another country or another movements, like ISIS, in destroying their enemies, if they share the same opponent

You may want to read what people thought on the eve of the WWI and how unaware they were of what lay ahead of them. The outbreak of war came as a complete surprise. It started as minor tensions between competing nationalisms in the Balkan cockpit swiftly evolved into a full-fledged warfare all over Europe (and beyond)...

Still wanna talk about some poor countries that have nothing to lose?

[deisik]

Wouldn't the total yearly budget deficit be destroyed simply by adding a surtax to the incomes of the super mega duper millionaires? Start with those who whine that their rates are too low - change their rates to 70% of their income or something, and disallow all deductions. And to harden social security, make their social security tax to be 15% of their income.

France actually tried something to that effect. Though I don't know how it fared in the long run (I guess we should ask Arthur Laffer), but I heard some celebrities giving up their French citizenship...

Can't the top of the pyramid tier rich sacrifice just a little? do it at least to sustain social cohesion? because we are headed towards mass riots at this point. Who wants to be rich in a shitty world anyway?

Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if that blood is your own

[BillyBobZorton]

Wouldn't the total yearly budget deficit be destroyed simply by adding a surtax to the incomes of the super mega duper millionaires? Start with those who whine that their rates are too low - change their rates to 70% of their income or something, and disallow all deductions. And to harden social security, make their social security tax to be 15% of their income.

France actually tried something to that effect. Though I don't know how it fared in the long run (I guess we should ask Arthur Laffer), but I heard some celebrities giving up their French citizenship...

Can't the top of the pyramid tier rich sacrifice just a little? do it at least to sustain social cohesion? because we are headed towards mass riots at this point. Who wants to be rich in a shitty world anyway?

Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if that blood is your own

That's indeed the problem, when you tax the super rich guess what happens... they leave to Switzerland and alike places. The only thing that could stop them is public shame, so those that are public figures (top athletes, actors, etc) are risking that their native fanbase starts hating on them. But the anonymous rich bankers and so on? these guys simply don't give a fuck, they'll just move the money.

[odolvlobo]

Wouldn't the total yearly budget deficit be destroyed simply by adding a surtax to the incomes of the super mega duper millionaires? Start with those who whine that their rates are too low - change their rates to 70% of their income or something, and disallow all deductions. And to harden social security, make their social security tax to be 15% of their income.

France actually tried something to that effect. Though I don't know how it fared in the long run (I guess we should ask Arthur Laffer), but I heard some celebrities giving up their French citizenship...

That's indeed the problem, when you tax the super rich guess what happens... they leave to Switzerland and alike places. The only thing that could stop them is public shame, so those that are public figures (top athletes, actors, etc) are risking that their native fanbase starts hating on them. But the anonymous rich bankers and so on? these guys simply don't give a fuck, they'll just move the money.

The U.S. is different. Leaving the U.S. doesn't matter. If you are a U.S. citizen, you must pay income tax no matter where you are in the world. The only way out is to renounce your citizenship, and even then you are handed a hefty tax bill.

[HigsonPP]

It can't be illusion as there are physical records of liability. If there were no records and still claims, it could be considered as an illusion but unfortunately that is not the case. The US is under a debt of about  $16.394 Trillion Dollars. United States owes a lot of money. US debt is larger than the size of the economy  The debt ceiling is currently set at $16.394 Trillion and approaching rapidly 

[dblink]

The issue is not as much the ratio of debt to wealth as much as it is the ability to pay off the debt.

Any other country with such high levels of debt/GDP would have a much lower rating from the rating agencies.
The US manages to get away with it because of its size.

There is no doubt that the United states of America national debt is not an illusion, since US is a super nuclear powered country, it spends it lot of budget on Defense department. Also note that it stands first major export for arms, missiles, and Defense Technology to all over the countries in the world, Russia stands Second next to the US in the world.

[polynesia]

It can't be illusion as there are physical records of liability. If there were no records and still claims, it could be considered as an illusion but unfortunately that is not the case. The US is under a debt of about  $16.394 Trillion Dollars. United States owes a lot of money. US debt is larger than the size of the economy  The debt ceiling is currently set at $16.394 Trillion and approaching rapidly 

The OP compares the outstanding debt of the US with its assets/wealth. That is why there is a question on whether the debt is an illusion.

[manselr]

The irony on all of this is that all money is debt if you think about it, so it basically means if all debt were to be paid, there would be no money available.. kinda of a mindfuck. Currency nowadays is just a mere money token, or coupon. Real money is gold and silver, and Bitcoin is the new real money. If the debt stops growing, the world's monetary fiat ponzi implodes.