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Author Topic: Bitcoin website operators: please consider using Google sign-in  (Read 5488 times)
bittenbob
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March 01, 2013, 12:30:27 AM
 #41

Coming Soon...
2112
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March 01, 2013, 02:06:12 AM
 #42

a court order to force Google to block sign-ins
If the history is any guide openly blocking is least of the worry.

I have no data to compare Google legal eagles with Microsoft legal eagles, but Microsoft has about a decade more of the experience with their Passport and Live ID products. And before that Novell, Compuserve and Shiva, three other early pioneers of "single sign on service". Too bad that Netscape & AOL had purged all the old Compuserve forums. There were some nice stories to re-tell from some of the non-English language boards.

The problems are completely non-technical and non-cryptographic, they are all human factors and human resources issues.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
Stardust
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March 01, 2013, 11:48:02 AM
 #43

Why depend on third parties, why not use PKI?  Something like ssh maybe?  I have been using PKI to log in my servers via ssh, since it adopted ECDSA, and made life so much easier without having to remember passwords (just the password for encrypting the private key).

When you register, web sites could ask you to paste your public key (in base64).  Then ask you to confirm the hash of the public key (in base58), via email just to make sure. Or visually, if there is no email required for registration.

This could be made user friendly, via a plug-in in Firefox/Chrome.  Or even better have native support for this in Firefox/Chrome.  If private keys are stored locally, they obviously need to be encrypted.
phatsphere
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March 01, 2013, 11:55:06 AM
 #44

One, I am giving away a portion of my site's security to a third party …
well, you aren't forced to go "all in". you can still have your own system … the more important point is, that it is not about YOUR security, but also in large about the user's security. e.g. do you protect your login against brute force attacks? do you offer 2-way authentication? do you have a heuristic to detect login attempts by a password thief based on e.g. the IP access pattern of the user (thief sits in another country) and ask some security question?
so, if you have all this and it's working, fine … if not, the USER has something to gain if s/he uses this system instead of yours.
and once again, you should offer both ways, it's easy to do!
Mike Hearn (OP)
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March 01, 2013, 11:55:39 AM
 #45

Why not do X or Y or Z ... sure you can do all those things. In practice though, people usually don't. Even Paymium doesn't seem to support 2-factor auth and that's an exchange!

The advantage of outsourcing it is that you can focus on your business, rather than on re-inventing the authentication wheel. And yes, it can lead to some additional risk, no different to using virtual server providers or outsourcing your email or DNS. You have to weigh up the costs vs the benefits.
Herodes
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March 01, 2013, 01:24:10 PM
 #46

I read through the first page of this thread, but didn't read the rest, so perhaps this information will be redundant, anyway, here goes:

Firstly I'd like to thank Mike Hearn for all the stuff that he does for bitcoin at large.

Secondly I'd like to put forth my opinions about OpenID.

What if your Google e-mail is compromized, it seems then it would also be possible to get access to the sites that you're connected to through OpenID.

The privacy issues is also interesting. If a certain individual is the member of 5 sites, and all these sites run their own user account systems, then any law enforcement agency or any 3-letter agency would need to contact 5 entities to get required data. However, with one central repository, one rogue sysadmin or a request to Google from law enforcement would be enough to get the required data.

Now, most users are honest individuals doing nothing nefarious, and you don't even need to do anything nefarious to value your privacy online. But as a website operator, you're now relying on a 3-rd party for all your user accounts, and what if it's decided that pulling the plug on your website is the right thing to do, caused from legal of political pressure ? There's nothing you can do, but to see your entire userbase vanish by the snap of some fingers.

And what if some google employee fucks up, and user data is leaked ? I assume there is tight security, but tight security has been broken before. Also, google will be able to record when you log in to a certain site, and a host of other parameteres, they can and will use for various purposes that you may or may not agree with.

For example, if you are a member of some soccer sites that use OpenID, google will possibly serve you commercials for computer soccer games and so on. Google may also use your habbits as a toll to suggest stuff for you on Google+.

Make no mistake about it, although Google does a lot of good things, like drone program to help wildlife preservation, and offering a hostload of free services online, they also need and want to turn a profit, and in addition they're US based, meaning it's very easy for law enforcement and 3-letter agencies to tap into their data, and mind you - this is happening. We don't hear about it, but we should not be naive and think it's not happening.

So who knows, some years down the line, you need to pay a mandatory license for using bitcoins, and lists of users will be extract from Google, and you will have your bills in your mailbox.. Ok, that may be stretching it, but judging from all the silly things that US policy makers and law enforcement agencies actually do, I would not be surprised if this will happen. What about mining pools, I'm sure the IRS would be happy to look up personal information about big time miners to see if they're paying their taxes.

This being said, it's unquestionable that Google provides a more secure and more professional service than most devs would be able to put up alone, but it's worth knowing about the privacy implications, which can be severe.

I already see that Google is exploting my online habits to do targeted marketing in regards to my interests, and I don't like it much, but I understand why the development is going this way, and I see how it can make revenue, it's not like I would click on ads sporting womens makeup articles, give me some geeky ads, and the chance is bigger that I click on an add, and then add this up for thousands and millions of users, and we have the answer to why targeted marketing works great for google.

I'd say if you run a somewhat serious website, have your own user account system, and protect it well, two factor identification may also be an interesting thing to implement.
playtin
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March 03, 2013, 04:53:25 PM
 #47

I'd say if you run a somewhat serious website, have your own user account system, and protect it well, two factor identification may also be an interesting thing to implement.
There is absolutely no need to have only one account type implemented.
As an example, we allow users to login using username/password, Google, Persona, or by signing a token with their bitcoin address.
For all those account types, one can enable two-factor authentication as an added security measure. By proving all those options users can decide them self, what they prefer. Keep in mind, that all types have their pros and cons.

Timo Y
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March 03, 2013, 06:04:05 PM
 #48

Google sign-in isn't for everyone, but for small websites run by people in their spare time it can save a lot of hassle.

There should be something like google sign-in for wallet management too.  At the moment, if you want to run a theft-proof bitcoin website you basically need to be a security guru.  That creates a big barrier to entry and excludes a lot of mom-and-pop web businesses from the Bitcoin economy.

GPG ID: FA868D77   bitcoin-otc:forever-d
bittenbob
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March 08, 2013, 01:50:50 PM
 #49

I think you will be pleased to learn that we have implemented this at BIPS. It was already in place at the time this thread was created but we had to wait until the site was launched to share.

For those of you who are interested, BIPS offers a free Bitcoin eWallet and free Bitcoin merchant tools.

https://bips.me
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