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Author Topic: Are the forkers purposely trying to kill BTC?  (Read 2344 times)
fullhdpixel
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August 28, 2017, 08:24:12 AM
 #81

The forks are shaking the very foundation of BTC's attraction ... that is away from the whims and motive of a controlling cabal. One could have been dismissed, but now a 2nd one starts establishing a pattern.


I think maybe it is getting out of control, and something needs to be done to control and make things remain safe, so I guess that’s what they’re trying to do. Eehm…im not actually perfect in discussing topics on forks, but if what you actually meant was a split, then I will have to let you know that there wasn’t any split on August 1st.

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September 01, 2017, 04:24:37 PM
 #82

I think really the airdrops are having the biggest effect rather than the forks.  Why sell your Bitcoin when you can sell from the huge number of airdrops you get just from holding onto them.
No airdrop from OMG, till now my account of mew still zero balance of OMG. Airdrop is free and anything is free only small numbers. It is imposible to get more than 100 USD airdrop, the biggest airdrop is about 1-10 USD. Nothing to be expected from airdrop. Signature, and twitter campaign aren't airdrop. We work as the publishers and developers as advertisers. So nothing is free. We work and get paid. Never Expect airdrop to be rich.
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September 21, 2017, 11:47:18 AM
 #83

don't get why people are so upset about this, aside from being misled by the utterly mistaken belief that there should be a centralised authority in control, which runs wholly contrary to the entire concept behind Bitcoin.

Well, maybe because it crashes the price badly everytime bitcoin forks into different bitcoins and destroys the network effect confusing people. "Oh wow, there are 3 bitcoins now? what do I buy?"

They know their shitcoin would never gain traction as an altcoin, so they try to steal the bitcoin brand by bribing corporations into accepting their shitcoin altfork.

Satoshi said clearly that he didn't want his software forked for technical reasons. Stop selling this bullshit as if it's good for bitcoin.
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September 21, 2017, 01:43:28 PM
 #84

don't get why people are so upset about this, aside from being misled by the utterly mistaken belief that there should be a centralised authority in control, which runs wholly contrary to the entire concept behind Bitcoin.

Well, maybe because it crashes the price badly everytime bitcoin forks into different bitcoins and destroys the network effect confusing people. "Oh wow, there are 3 bitcoins now? what do I buy?"

They know their shitcoin would never gain traction as an altcoin, so they try to steal the bitcoin brand by bribing corporations into accepting their shitcoin altfork.

Satoshi said clearly that he didn't want his software forked for technical reasons. Stop selling this bullshit as if it's good for bitcoin.

If the only thing you care about is the fiat price of your coins, then frankly I don't give a shit what your opinion is.  Freedom doesn't have a price tag.  I stand firmly on the side of the argument that freedom is infinitely more valuable than some government IOUs.  Obsess about those all you like, just don't expect anyone else to care.

And no one is stealing anything, you ignorant asshat.  Stealing implies that someone owns the Bitcoin brand, so perhaps you could explain who that is, exactly?  As far as I was aware, no one own or controls Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is influenced by the code people freely choose to run.  If it turns out that enough people want to run different code, that's not an act of theft.  Either accept that, or go use some closed-source crapcoin like Ripple where no one has a choice.  It sounds like you prefer the ideals of closed-source development where no one can fork the code, so what the fuck are you even doing here?

I keep hearing about this bribery like it was some sort of documented fact.  Where is the funding from this bribery coming from?  Who, exactly, is bribing who?  Do you have any actual evidence for any of these seemingly baseless accusations?  If not, I'd ask that you stop talking shit.

And stop the pathetic appeals to authority about what Satoshi would or wouldn't have wanted.  It's just getting sad now.  Even Satoshi isn't in a position where they can tell people what to do (nor did they ever express the will to do so), so why do you think you are in a position to tell everyone what code they can or can't run?  Everyone has a choice and you can't tell them how to choose.  You and all the other authoritarian fuckwits on this board can go start your own DictatorCoin if you think you can force your views onto everyone else.  That shit doesn't fly here.
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September 21, 2017, 03:38:34 PM
 #85

I do not believe forkers are trying to kill Bitcoin.  I believe they have great things in mind and needs to do it outside the Bitcoin blockchain to not affect the Bitcoin network themselves.  Besides, if they do their project on the Bitcoin main chain, they would't have a full control of the decision since it need consensus to apply anything to the main Bitcoin code.  They probably just wanted to do things themselves and do not want the burden of asking any consent from miners to developers.



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September 22, 2017, 01:46:44 PM
 #86



If the only thing you care about is the fiat price of your coins, then frankly I don't give a shit what your opinion is.  Freedom doesn't have a price tag.  I stand firmly on the side of the argument that freedom is infinitely more valuable than some government IOUs.  Obsess about those all you like, just don't expect anyone else to care.

Of course price matters you dumb autist. And I don't care if its against fiat. If BTC goes down against the oz of gold, it's a failure. If what you are doing gets your purchasing power down while centralizing the network with bigger blocks, then why would anyone support this unless they were getting mad fiat gains behind the curtain?
 Hardforking bitcoin into several bitcoins = a mistake. Holders lose purchasing power and gain nothing in return, maybe the illusion that you are now more free because you forked bitcoin into an altcoin if you are stupid enough to think that.


And no one is stealing anything, you ignorant asshat.  Stealing implies that someone owns the Bitcoin brand, so perhaps you could explain who that is, exactly?  As far as I was aware, no one own or controls Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is influenced by the code people freely choose to run.  If it turns out that enough people want to run different code, that's not an act of theft.  Either accept that, or go use some closed-source crapcoin like Ripple where no one has a choice.  

No one owns the bitcoin brand, but it's obvious hardforking it and paying bribing miners with FIAT money so they mine your hardfork then try to claim that is the real bitcoin is a bitch ass move, but idiots like you would call this freedom and good for bitcoin. Get the fuck out of here.

I keep hearing about this bribery like it was some sort of documented fact.  Where is the funding from this bribery coming from?  Who, exactly, is bribing who?  Do you have any actual evidence for any of these seemingly baseless accusations?  If not, I'd ask that you stop talking shit.

https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/roger-ver-from-bitcoin-jesus-to-bitcoin-antichrist-69fc7a17c622

Quote
Bitcoin Unlimited is the latest (soon to be failed) attempt, this time they tried bribing. Bitcoin Unlimited received a “500,000 usd donation” and now additionally there is a 1 million dollar grant for alternative implementations. I think this kind of falls under the “bribing” part that I will discuss later.

It is important to note who are the main supporters of bigger blocks:

    Roger Ver
    Jeff Garzik: founder of bloq which is focussed on private blockchains
    Blockchain.info: Ver invested in it
    Coinbase: burning through VC money and desperately needing an excuse as to why they’re not growing fast enough
    Bitmain: closely working with Ver for a while
    Viabtc = Bitmain


Do you think if there is bribery going on they are going to make it public? connect the fucking dots you mong. Im not going to do the homework for you. If you think miners (the most profit seeking people in the game) and all of these devs with obvious ties to the government are hardforking bitcoin "for the good of bitcoin" because they are good samaritans you are deluded as fuck. Understand the game theory at play then come back and try to argue why your hardfork is good idea again.

And stop the pathetic appeals to authority about what Satoshi would or wouldn't have wanted.  It's just getting sad now.  Even Satoshi isn't in a position where they can tell people what to do (nor did they ever express the will to do so), so why do you think you are in a position to tell everyone what code they can or can't run?  Everyone has a choice and you can't tell them how to choose.  You and all the other authoritarian fuckwits on this board can go start your own DictatorCoin if you think you can force your views onto everyone else.  That shit doesn't fly here.

I don't give a fuck about satoshi, but since you hardforkers usually appeal so satoshi, I did it myself to show that even satoshi was against it.
Hardforking bitcoin because fiat corporations are behind it is a bad idea objectively no matter who says it.


It sounds like you prefer the ideals of closed-source development where no one can fork the code, so what the fuck are you even doing here?

Last time I checked, it was Bitcoin Unlimited releasing closed source code. Segwit2x was making the slack and github private and Garzik is trying to put his bloq shit on there, Bitcoin XT had anti privacy shit on there, the list goes on. What have any of these idiots contributed to bitcoin other than get fiat corporations and miners on board by everyone knows how? Get real buddyboy.
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September 23, 2017, 05:59:22 AM
 #87

I'm just gonna skip past the rest of the specious shit you're slinging, and focus on one assertion at a time. Let us start with this one:

Bitcoin Unlimited releasing closed source code

Wild-ass assertion devoid of supporting facts. Put up or shut up.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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September 24, 2017, 08:17:52 AM
Last edit: September 24, 2017, 08:36:48 AM by DooMAD
 #88

If the only thing you care about is the fiat price of your coins, then frankly I don't give a shit what your opinion is.  Freedom doesn't have a price tag.  I stand firmly on the side of the argument that freedom is infinitely more valuable than some government IOUs.  Obsess about those all you like, just don't expect anyone else to care.

Of course price matters you dumb autist. And I don't care if its against fiat. If BTC goes down against the oz of gold, it's a failure. If what you are doing gets your purchasing power down while centralizing the network with bigger blocks, then why would anyone support this unless they were getting mad fiat gains behind the curtain?
 Hardforking bitcoin into several bitcoins = a mistake. Holders lose purchasing power and gain nothing in return, maybe the illusion that you are now more free because you forked bitcoin into an altcoin if you are stupid enough to think that.

Quoting for emphasis:  "If BTC goes down against the oz of gold, it's a failure".  I see where the issue stems from now.  No wonder you think the situation is so delicate.  A temporary blip in material value is more important to you than permissionless freedom.  Purchasing power is the icing on the cake.  It's not the sole reason for using it, unless you're just a greedy shit, which is what I'm starting to suspect might be the case.  

If Bitcoin can't settle disputes utilising the consensus mechanism it's equipped with, it's a failure.  And that remains to be seen.  As such, there is no problem here.  You've got yourself all roiled up over internet drama.  Bitcoin will be fine.  As I've stated before, Bitcoin doesn't want or need your pampered, mollycoddled, nanny-state, protectionist foolishness.  Bitcoin survives in the wild and grows stronger and more robust through adaptation and freedom of choice, selecting the best code available from the open market at any given time.  Bitcoin does not need you to defend it from would-be attackers.  It can do that all by itself and, whether you personally approve of the code being used or not, Bitcoin will come out stronger at the end of it, as I suspect will the price if that's your primary concern.  This is the kind of shit I'd be expecting to explain to newbie accounts.  How the actual fuck have you not got it into your thick skull yet?



And no one is stealing anything, you ignorant asshat.  Stealing implies that someone owns the Bitcoin brand, so perhaps you could explain who that is, exactly?  As far as I was aware, no one own or controls Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is influenced by the code people freely choose to run.  If it turns out that enough people want to run different code, that's not an act of theft.  Either accept that, or go use some closed-source crapcoin like Ripple where no one has a choice.  

No one owns the bitcoin brand, but it's obvious hardforking it and paying bribing miners with FIAT money so they mine your hardfork then try to claim that is the real bitcoin is a bitch ass move, but idiots like you would call this freedom and good for bitcoin. Get the fuck out of here.

Idiotic bribery part aside, I do think it's good for Bitcoin that it's possible to hardfork and that miners can choose whichever chain they like, as can users, non-mining nodes and developers.  Are you suggesting Bitcoin would be somehow improved if we could put guns to the miners' heads and tell them what they have to do with their own hardware they took the risk investing in?  But whether I'm correct in my views or not is irrelevant.  The simple fact is, I recognise it's a natural part of the ecosystem I willingly joined.  A free and permissionless system where no one dictates anything.  You seem to be upset that it doesn't do what it said on the box and that it would be better if we could control the miners and tell them what they can or can't do.  Bitcoin can fork at any time for any reason if enough of the participants deem it worthwhile.  There is demonstrably nothing you can do to change that, so sit back and enjoy the ride.


I keep hearing about this bribery like it was some sort of documented fact.  Where is the funding from this bribery coming from?  Who, exactly, is bribing who?  Do you have any actual evidence for any of these seemingly baseless accusations?  If not, I'd ask that you stop talking shit.

https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/roger-ver-from-bitcoin-jesus-to-bitcoin-antichrist-69fc7a17c622

Quote
Bitcoin Unlimited is the latest (soon to be failed) attempt, this time they tried bribing. Bitcoin Unlimited received a “500,000 usd donation” and now additionally there is a 1 million dollar grant for alternative implementations. I think this kind of falls under the “bribing” part that I will discuss later.

Okay, sure, let's take a closer look at that.  Your image is a little outdated, it's actually $1.2 million now.  

Which one of the following do you take exception to?

Quote
       1) No "Official" Bitcoin: No particular implementation of the Bitcoin protocol holds claim to being the "official" version of Bitcoin

        2) Multiple Implementations: Diversity of bitcoin protocol implementation along with a variety of development teams is a net gain for the bitcoin community.

        3) Diversity of Innovation: The presence of more developers and more development teams will lead to greater diversity of innovation and solutions to the problems we will inevitably face as a growing industry.

        4) Bitcoin is Leaderless: Bitcoin is a leaderless community comprised of many parts, and no team of developers has decision making authority for the entire community.

        5) No Censorship: Disagreement is healthy within a complex community such as ours. Yet the benefits of discussion, debate, and dissent require communication channels to remain free and open. Although we respect the right of private communities to run themselves as they see fit, the signers of this statement implore members of bitcoin to reject censorship and encourage them to support those platforms where free and open discussion is allowed to take place.

I personally see no problem with any of those tenets.  They all seem perfectly reasonable to me, so what, exactly, is your problem with it?  Aside from you being a fascist who thinks there should only be one dev team, since that goes without saying.  You know you're fighting an unwinnable fight here, right?  Aside from incessant mudslinging, which is clearly all you've got in the arsenal, there is nothing you can do to stop people writing code and releasing alternative clients.  There is also nothing you can do to stop people running those alternative clients.  And nothing you can do to stop people funding those clients.  There's not a lot you can do about anything.  Why do you even bother?  You are the embodiment of flailing sperger.  

Further to that, if you think Bitcoin can't cope with what's happening now, what do you think will happen when some big multinational company or bank gets over their initial walled garden naivety (just like you need to get the fuck over your walled-development-garden naivety) and releases a client?  It's bound to happen one day.  You won't be able to stop them either.  As such, you want as much diversity in this ecosystem as possible to prevent one of those big companies gaining too much influence.  Believe me when I tell you that you will definitely want the option for those people to fork away when they can't turn Bitcoin into what they'd prefer, so we need this little test to see what happens.  Think about the long game, dumbass, that's how game-theory works.  

I have enough faith in this little experiment to believe that everything will be fine (and genuinely, I really do), but I'd still like to see it proven empirically that Bitcoin can survive contentious hardforks.  Resilient honey badger is resilient until proven otherwise.


It sounds like you prefer the ideals of closed-source development where no one can fork the code, so what the fuck are you even doing here?

Last time I checked, it was Bitcoin Unlimited releasing closed source code. Segwit2x was making the slack and github private and Garzik is trying to put his bloq shit on there, Bitcoin XT had anti privacy shit on there, the list goes on. What have any of these idiots contributed to bitcoin other than get fiat corporations and miners on board by everyone knows how? Get real buddyboy.

Let's assume just for a moment that we agreed that these people are as bad as you say they are.  We categorically don't, but we'll just pretend for the moment.  Despite however untrustworthy, ill-intentioned or downright bad these people are, you still don't want them to leave?  You could be rid of them.  Separate.  Gone.  If the Core devs do decide to change the mining algorithm, these evil usurpers might never have influence over your preferred chain again.  These people are perfectly willing to leave you alone and do whatever the fuck you want.  Why can't you leave them alone?  Why are you so obstinately controlling of others, despite how utterly and truly impotent you are at doing it?  Keep throwing your toys out of the pram, baby.  It accomplishes nothing.
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September 29, 2017, 07:52:51 PM
 #89



If the only thing you care about is the fiat price of your coins, then frankly I don't give a shit what your opinion is.  Freedom doesn't have a price tag.  I stand firmly on the side of the argument that freedom is infinitely more valuable than some government IOUs.  Obsess about those all you like, just don't expect anyone else to care.

Of course price matters you dumb autist. And I don't care if its against fiat. If BTC goes down against the oz of gold, it's a failure. If what you are doing gets your purchasing power down while centralizing the network with bigger blocks, then why would anyone support this unless they were getting mad fiat gains behind the curtain?
 Hardforking bitcoin into several bitcoins = a mistake. Holders lose purchasing power and gain nothing in return, maybe the illusion that you are now more free because you forked bitcoin into an altcoin if you are stupid enough to think that.


And no one is stealing anything, you ignorant asshat.  Stealing implies that someone owns the Bitcoin brand, so perhaps you could explain who that is, exactly?  As far as I was aware, no one own or controls Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is influenced by the code people freely choose to run.  If it turns out that enough people want to run different code, that's not an act of theft.  Either accept that, or go use some closed-source crapcoin like Ripple where no one has a choice.  

No one owns the bitcoin brand, but it's obvious hardforking it and paying bribing miners with FIAT money so they mine your hardfork then try to claim that is the real bitcoin is a bitch ass move, but idiots like you would call this freedom and good for bitcoin. Get the fuck out of here.

I keep hearing about this bribery like it was some sort of documented fact.  Where is the funding from this bribery coming from?  Who, exactly, is bribing who?  Do you have any actual evidence for any of these seemingly baseless accusations?  If not, I'd ask that you stop talking shit.

https://medium.com/@WhalePanda/roger-ver-from-bitcoin-jesus-to-bitcoin-antichrist-69fc7a17c622

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Bitcoin Unlimited is the latest (soon to be failed) attempt, this time they tried bribing. Bitcoin Unlimited received a “500,000 usd donation” and now additionally there is a 1 million dollar grant for alternative implementations. I think this kind of falls under the “bribing” part that I will discuss later.

It is important to note who are the main supporters of bigger blocks:

    Roger Ver
    Jeff Garzik: founder of bloq which is focussed on private blockchains
    Blockchain.info: Ver invested in it
    Coinbase: burning through VC money and desperately needing an excuse as to why they’re not growing fast enough
    Bitmain: closely working with Ver for a while
    Viabtc = Bitmain


Do you think if there is bribery going on they are going to make it public? connect the fucking dots you mong. Im not going to do the homework for you. If you think miners (the most profit seeking people in the game) and all of these devs with obvious ties to the government are hardforking bitcoin "for the good of bitcoin" because they are good samaritans you are deluded as fuck. Understand the game theory at play then come back and try to argue why your hardfork is good idea again.

And stop the pathetic appeals to authority about what Satoshi would or wouldn't have wanted.  It's just getting sad now.  Even Satoshi isn't in a position where they can tell people what to do (nor did they ever express the will to do so), so why do you think you are in a position to tell everyone what code they can or can't run?  Everyone has a choice and you can't tell them how to choose.  You and all the other authoritarian fuckwits on this board can go start your own DictatorCoin if you think you can force your views onto everyone else.  That shit doesn't fly here.

I don't give a fuck about satoshi, but since you hardforkers usually appeal so satoshi, I did it myself to show that even satoshi was against it.
Hardforking bitcoin because fiat corporations are behind it is a bad idea objectively no matter who says it.


It sounds like you prefer the ideals of closed-source development where no one can fork the code, so what the fuck are you even doing here?

Last time I checked, it was Bitcoin Unlimited releasing closed source code. Segwit2x was making the slack and github private and Garzik is trying to put his bloq shit on there, Bitcoin XT had anti privacy shit on there, the list goes on. What have any of these idiots contributed to bitcoin other than get fiat corporations and miners on board by everyone knows how? Get real buddyboy.
This is impossible to kill bitcoin and it is the strong coin of this 21st century so the people who know deep web cannot get into it and just flourish it. Investor who had invested in it has believe in it and no one can divert his mind from this and he will invest and invest to earn more and more.
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