Bitcoin.org page -> someone with rights please fix

[Jaime Frontero]

The google link on the bitcoin.org homepage is/was my idea.

"The One True Forums" for bitcoin doesn't make sense to me-- the whole point of bitcoin is to be decentralized. I sincerely believe that open and free competition makes everything better, and I hope that more places to discuss bitcoin pop up and compete to be the best.

In the future, I'd like most of the links on the bitcoin.org home page to be google searches, including the "download bitcoin" links (I think we'll see some great new bitcoin clients released over the next six months or so).

sorry Gavin - this is a terrible idea.

yes:  "the whole point of bitcoin is to be decentralized."  agreed.

but the point of effective dissemination of information is centralization.  that's why there are books.  libraries.  and the informational requirements to grow the project are a completely different animal than the project itself.  surely you must agree with that?

when people want Bitcoin-related software, vendor information, best-practice information, etc., they need somewhere to go.  it needs to be stable and reliable.  and it needs to have both a high level of trust and a clear, strong link to the core of the project.

bitcoin.org is, and has been, all of those things.  and should rightfully remain so.

i understand that the forums are somewhat... embarrassing, at times.  but it's pretty easy to fix - and would require much less hands-on moderation than you are currently committing to. 

and it certainly would not require shattering the informational cohesion of the project, as this google link does.

i've mentioned the brilliance of the self-moderating system at DailyKos before; and for a burgeoning community like this one, it would perform very well.  if you'd like to discuss it at length, i'd be happy to - PM me.  it would really not be terribly difficult to smooth the forums out - and have the users themselves do it for you.

give this some thought please.

[jgarzik]

i understand that the forums are somewhat... embarrassing, at times.  but it's pretty easy to fix - and would require much less hands-on moderation than you are currently committing to. 

More than embarrassing.  Blatantly illegal stuff creates real legal risk for the people developing bitcoin software, which may or may not matter to the people who are not taking those risks.

i've mentioned the brilliance of the self-moderating system at DailyKos before; and for a burgeoning community like this one, it would perform very well.  if you'd like to discuss it at length, i'd be happy to - PM me.  it would really not be terribly difficult to smooth the forums out - and have the users themselves do it for you.

URL to DailyKos-like software for download?

[Jaime Frontero]

URL to DailyKos-like software for download?

they've rolled their own moderation system.

try the FAQ section:

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/DailyKos_FAQ

read 5.4 through 5.5.7

in practice it works unbelievably well.  i've been on DK for many years (along with many other sites), and i've never encountered a system as effective, as just, and as well-integrated to the needs of what is one of the heaviest-trolled sites on the 'net.

i'd venture to say that, with some tweaks (all forums are different), the Bitcoin forums could be 95% troll-free in two or three weeks - and you could cut the number of mods, and the time they spend modding, in half.

[Alex Beckenham]

I just went ahead and did this:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Forums

The "Forum" link on the front page of the wiki now points there, and I listed all the Bitcoin general discussion sites I could think of.

I also like this idea

I like this too other than the fact that this forum is labeled "Bitcoin Forum". That alone makes it sound like it's the official one.

It reminds me of how we call our moon 'The Moon', even though there are millions of other moons.

This forum maybe needs some kind of unique name instead.

[Anonymous]

Now it just looks like bitcoin is a 20% google project...

The link should go to the wiki page that lists different bitcoin related forums.

[jgarzik]

URL to DailyKos-like software for download?

they've rolled their own moderation system.

try the FAQ section:

http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/DailyKos_FAQ

read 5.4 through 5.5.7

After looking at that URL, my question remains unanswered.  One must assume it is not available for download, which implies programmers would need to create one from scratch -- a decidedly non-trivial task that could take months to complete.

Not a realistic answer, unless you are volunteering a team of programmers, or paying a bounty or something?

[Chris Acheson]

I like this too other than the fact that this forum is labeled "Bitcoin Forum". That alone makes it sound like it's the official one.

It reminds me of how we call our moon 'The Moon', even though there are millions of other moons.

This forum maybe needs some kind of unique name instead.

Yeah, I didn't know what to do about that, so I just left it as-is.  We could call this place "The Sirius Forum" (heh).  It would fit with "The Satoshi Client".

[Jaime Frontero]

After looking at that URL, my question remains unanswered.  One must assume it is not available for download, which implies programmers would need to create one from scratch -- a decidedly non-trivial task that could take months to complete.

Not a realistic answer, unless you are volunteering a team of programmers, or paying a bounty or something?

i'm a network designer, not a programmer - but it doesn't appear that complicated.

you have already tried out giving users the ability to uprate and downrate comments - so that exists in the forum software, yes?  the only thing that needs to be changed there is limiting those who can downrate a comment to users who have attained 'trusted user' status, by gaining sufficient uprates from other users.  anybody can uprate a comment, but only trusted users can downrate one.

and the moderators already have the ability to hide/delete comments.  the change needed there is to make hiding/deleting automatic, after some pre-determined number of downrates by trusted users.

those two things are all that's needed for the community to essentially police itself - and they will.

the rest is gilding the lily:  limiting the number of downrates a TU can issue in a day, or requiring a steady posting/uprate history to maintain TU status if it seems appropriate.

and then the mods can pretty much limit their attention and responses to illegal (as you point out) content, etc., by concentrating on looking at the origin posts of threads, and stolen or obscene posted material which doesn't get downrated.

i guess all i can say is - it works.

EDIT...

* sigh * but maybe not here.  i've been trying to do some more objective reading.

perhaps the project is better served by removing everything but tech, merchant lists, and how-to's, from forum.bitcoin,org.  it is, as has been noted on the SourceForge archive, pretty much a political cesspool.

it'd be nice to save it, if possible...

< shrug >  ...but i'm glad it's not my call.

[ribuck]

We could call this place "The Sirius Forum" (heh).  It would fit with "The Satoshi Client".

Or even the "Original Bitcoin Forum". Anyway, whatever Sirius decides to do is OK.

[Raoul Duke]

....

One would hope nobody will be successful in maliciously manipulating google rankings.

.....

Again, the google index can be manipulated.

.....

Yes it can. Oh yes IT CAN! Just search Michael Pascazi for an example

[netrin]

Much as I like this forum I think the StackExchange site (link in my sig) will be much more useful, assuming we can get it off the ground. Too much politics, advertising, scamming and slander here; doesn't put the best spin on bitcoin unfortunately.

Much as I like the StackExchange site, there's no way in hell I'm clicking on a bit.ly address from a bitcoin forum.

[Raoul Duke]

Much as I like the StackExchange site, there's no way in hell I'm clicking on a bit.ly address from a bitcoin forum.

You just need to add a +(plus sign) at the end of any bit.ly link and you can preview it before jumping on it

[Chris Acheson]

Much as I like the StackExchange site, there's no way in hell I'm clicking on a bit.ly address from a bitcoin forum.

In case you're not signed up already: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/30763/bitcoin-crypto-currency
See also: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=29545.0

[wumpus]

In the future, I'd like most of the links on the bitcoin.org home page to be google searches, including the "download bitcoin" links (I think we'll see some great new bitcoin clients released over the next six months or so).

Please don't change a link to download executable code to a google link. It's pretty easy to get adware/malware in the top # google hits (this is not a theoretical attack; it happened to for example, daemon tools multiple times)

If you are going to link multiple clients, which is a good idea, just offer some alternatives that you know and trust.

For forums, this is arguably less of an issue, though I still think that not posting a forum link at all is better than posting a google search. People need no help searching on google (and you're still encouraging Google as the "one true bitcoin search engine" and the forum as the "one true bitcoin community format")

Maybe make a page "bitcoin communities" on the Wiki, and link there. Though you'd still be encouraging the one true bitcoin wiki, but heh...

[error]

I agree; the download links should always be only to the original client.

Consider; BitTorrent doesn't link to Azureus or µTorrent!