gmaxwell, his libel, being a ----- and the 200 BTC bounty.

[El Cabron]

As many of you know Gregory Maxwell libeled me and my pool operation a few years ago and suggested it had connections to child porn, drugs, guns and money laundering. He had no evidence for this and was completely uncalled for.

My response to this was to put a bounty on evidence linking him to the crimes he had accused me off. Shockingly the number of offers for evidence connecting him to being a "-----" and involved in --------------- was shocking. It seems he is well known in that circle and there is a lot of evidence. I however have not seen the evidence directly myself but the number of people who have come out with this, something I had not asked for is just startling.     ( I censored this as I have not seen the proof )

Also I have had someone willing to claim the 200 bounty linking Gregory Maxwell to child porn. The terms offered would be to use escrow and the BTC would only be released after G Maxwell had been arrested. I personally feel that this person, despite claiming the evidence is real, would be fabricating the evidence and would try to frame Maxwell. Again I have not seen the evidence but I find it hard to believe. I am not going to pay for this and feel that it would be best to call off the bounty.

What I was trying to do was show that accusations and slander really do hurt people and one should stand behind what one claims. I was not trying to destroy his life.

I have had run ins with several members on this forum, including many staff. Most of the time we have been able to resolve our differences and a few of the staff members have even apologized for their actions. We have been able to move on and I consider many of them now friends.

I'm going to be the better man here gmaxwell and just leave this. If you want to apologize for your actions it would be well received. If you think what you did was morally correct then we will have to agree to disagree on the matter.

Either way I hope that in the future you are willing to think about what you say before you make personal attacks that could destroy the lively hood of a person.

Happy New Year.

[MiningBuddy]

Dude, you really need a new hobby  

Happy New Year!

[Gamer67]

As many of you know Gregory Maxwell libeled me and my pool operation a few years ago and suggested it had connections to child porn, drugs, guns and money laundering. He had no evidence for this and was completely uncalled for.

My response to this was to put a bounty on evidence linking him to the crimes he had accused me off. Shockingly the number of offers for evidence connecting him to being a "-----" and involved in --------------- was shocking. It seems he is well known in that circle and there is a lot of evidence. I however have not seen the evidence directly myself but the number of people who have come out with this, something I had not asked for is just startling.     ( I censored this as I have not seen the proof )

Also I have had someone willing to claim the 200 bounty linking Gregory Maxwell to child porn. The terms offered would be to use escrow and the BTC would only be released after G Maxwell had been arrested. I personally feel that this person, despite claiming the evidence is real, would be fabricating the evidence and would try to frame Maxwell. Again I have not seen the evidence but I find it hard to believe. I am not going to pay for this and feel that it would be best to call off the bounty.

What I was trying to do was show that accusations and slander really do hurt people and one should stand behind what one claims. I was not trying to destroy his life.

I have had run ins with several members on this forum, including many staff. Most of the time we have been able to resolve our differences and a few of the staff members have even apologized for their actions. We have been able to move on and I consider many of them now friends.

I'm going to be the better man here gmaxwell and just leave this. If you want to apologize for your actions it would be well received. If you think what you did was morally correct then we will have to agree to disagree on the matter.

Either way I hope that in the future you are willing to think about what you say before you make personal attacks that could destroy the lively hood of a person.

Happy New Year.

It is only shocking to you. You put up a 200BTC bounty. What did you think would happen. People will come up with anything for that amount. Or are you really that stupid ?

[elasticband]

Unstable is the world that springs to mind.

[SaltySpitoon]

Jesus Goat, I know you better than gmaxwell, so take this from a friend to a friend, but you are totally instigating this entire thing. There is not a single doubt in my mind that gmaxwell hasn't said a single thing to you since you guys resolved the issue 2 years ago, and now you are just being a drama queen.

He made a statement two years ago ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54467.msg725229#msg725229 ), you guys fought over it, he apologized, and then out of the blue you bring it up again years later because you are no longer struggling to make it, and don't have to worry about saving face. Suck it up, stop making threads, and make up god dammit.

Like I said, I don't know gmaxwell really all that well, but he doesn't seem to be the confrontational sort. I read the thread, he accused you in the most polite possible way, asking if you were money laundering to be able to offer 115% PPS, you two got into a spat, and he apologized.

What makes this more relevant now? Did he accuse you again, or are you just whining for the sake of whining? Man the hell up, and talk to who you have a problem with, you don't need to display it and create a show for all to see.

I'm going to be the better man here gmaxwell and just leave this. If you want to apologize for your actions it would be well received. If you think what you did was morally correct then we will have to agree to disagree on the matter.

This infuriates me... you keep talking like he never apologized, and even hinted that he changed the quotes around in one of your other threads. He can't edit your threads...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62139.0

@Maxwell,

I accept your apology as I believe it to be sincere.

Honestly I do not need to tell you my business model as you are not the bitcoin police but I will tell you it does not involve anything you suspect. Nothing at all is illegal and no one outside of the bitcoin world would care what I do. It is not laundering.

Yes, I pay $1.15 for something you only see worth $1.00. This is why there is a free market with out someone wanting something more/less than someone else the price would never change. I am able to do something you do not understand. That does not mean it is illegal. If you truly were only out to protect bitcoin you would not have acted in the way you did.

I will one day explain what I am doing to the public and I am very proud of what I have done. A handful of trusted members already know and I thank you guys for keeping it a secret this long:) Respect!


@rjk

I did not link Maxwell to this, he did it himself. Maxwell is the only link to this child pron market that I can find. No one I know has heard of such a thing. At the time I assumed it was a real place but looking back I think he might have just made it up as a "hypothetical". I honestly hope it is just hypothetical because that would be a new low for bitcoin. I do hope will make a thread and clear this up if it is, I would hate for him to be quoted in the media:(


@ everyone else,

I would consider the questions answered and replying to this would be off topic. The exception to this would be if you have evidence, then by all means post it directly here. If you would like to start a new thread related to speculation and rumors on IRC then please PM a link and I will respond there.

Also because Maxwell apologized and was clear he had no evidence the bounty has been retracted. We should end this here and now.

Thank you.

[jackjack]

As many of you know Gregory Maxwell libeled me and my pool operation a few years ago and suggested it had connections to child porn, drugs, guns and money laundering. He had no evidence for this and was completely uncalled for.

My response to this was to put a bounty on evidence linking him to the crimes he had accused me off. Shockingly the number of offers for evidence connecting him to being a "-----" and involved in --------------- was shocking. It seems he is well known in that circle and there is a lot of evidence. I however have not seen the evidence directly myself but the number of people who have come out with this, something I had not asked for is just startling.     ( I censored this as I have not seen the proof )

Also I have had someone willing to claim the 200 bounty linking Gregory Maxwell to child porn. The terms offered would be to use escrow and the BTC would only be released after G Maxwell had been arrested. I personally feel that this person, despite claiming the evidence is real, would be fabricating the evidence and would try to frame Maxwell. Again I have not seen the evidence but I find it hard to believe. I am not going to pay for this and feel that it would be best to call off the bounty.

What I was trying to do was show that accusations and slander really do hurt people and one should stand behind what one claims. I was not trying to destroy his life.

I have had run ins with several members on this forum, including many staff. Most of the time we have been able to resolve our differences and a few of the staff members have even apologized for their actions. We have been able to move on and I consider many of them now friends.

I'm going to be the better man here gmaxwell and just leave this. If you want to apologize for your actions it would be well received. If you think what you did was morally correct then we will have to agree to disagree on the matter.

Either way I hope that in the future you are willing to think about what you say before you make personal attacks that could destroy the lively hood of a person.

Happy New Year.

What's fucking wrong with this guy?
I advice you to seek professional help. Not kidding.

[SaltySpitoon]

"I did not intend it as accusation, I thought I was adequately clear: I do not know, and I'm looking for answers.  I posed a hypothetical— If you are not in, in fact, engaging in a business which facilitates flimsy bitcoin laundering via mining then I am apologetic for implying otherwise."

That was his "apology".


I tried to deal with it as best as I could back then as a mod was openly suggesting what I was doing was a crime. No one would find his actions reasonable.

He failed to understand what was going on and started making stuff up.

His original accusation doesn't sound very malicious.

So what should someone who's been mining for you do when after they use their mined coins to buy Alpaca Socks law enforcement shows up and tells them that their coins were the marked proceeds from a sting operation related to drugs, arms sales, child porn trade, or that they were bitcoins reported previously stolen and that they have a warrants to seize all their computers to look for evidence?

The word on IRC is that these private services which pay >100% PPS in BTC for mining are doing this because they're attempting to get rid of 'dirty' coins which could potentially be traced in exchange for freshly mined coins.  Certainly this is the only thing I've heard that makes any economic sense at all, but if it's true don't the miners have a right to know what role they're playing in this and what risk they're taking?

Have I got it wrong?  Can you help me understand what the business is here?

So basically you are saying, you have decided that you can get a better apology out of him than the one you accepted two years ago, because you aren't a new member in the Bitcoin scene. I can't believe that you would hold a grudge for two years, holding out for a better apology. He gave you one, you accepted it, the issue has been resolved for two years, get over it. I highly doubt you will find any support carrying on with it. I like you Goat, but this irritates the hell out of me. If you feel the issue has been opened again for some reason, other than your doing, fine. But stop playing the victim. Unless gmaxwell said to you the other day, "Hey hows the ole money laundering pool going you slimey bastard" I'd guess that he rubbed you the wrong way recently over something, and you decided to bring it back up.

I'm not defending gmaxwell, he could have worded his question better to make it less accusational as not to offend you. But this was two years ago... You said yourself that the situation was rectified. But I'm voicing my opinion on the matter because I'm grinding my teeth reading over the stupidness that is your boredom or stubborness, or whatever made you decide to reignite this. But whatever it is, its completely on you, of course unless like I said a moment ago, gmaxwell brought it back up in some way, which for some reason, I pretty well doubt.  You are not a victim here, you are stubborn, bored, stupid, or just had a score to settle for something recent and decided to use old news in your defence.

[MiningBuddy]

Goat.... did you scratch the lambo already?    

Sorry, just kidding, shouldn't laugh :-P

[tysat]

@SaltySpitoon

He never really apologized. At the time I was trying to make the best of his abuse. I still had a pool to run.

What he did was wrong and yes it has bothered me for years. I'm not sure what part of the world you live in but here if someone said that to your face you would get your ass kicked.

So you're just bringing it back up to stir up some drama then?  Because that's what it looks like.

[SaltySpitoon]

@SaltySpitoon

He never really apologized. At the time I was trying to make the best of his abuse. I still had a pool to run.

What he did was wrong and yes it has bothered me for years. I'm not sure what part of the world you live in but here if someone said that to your face you would get your ass kicked.

Where I'm at, no one would understand what a pool is, and just shoot you when they hear the word money (not here for a toughness pissing contest though, tis a joke)

My point is, what reason did you have for making this public? Even if it has been bugging you for years, couldn't you have just pmed gmaxwell, said you were thinking about it, and talked to him rationally about it? From your posts, I'd take away that you are more interested in the public drama than actually rectifying a situation that no one knew about or remembered until now. Wouldn't a private apology which you probably could have got had you just talked to the guy reasonably been just as good if not better than the asinine public apology you are trying to get now?

If there was ever any link to you and money laundry/weapons/cp, its now that you brought it up again. Now it will be another two years before people forget about this if they do at all, the community is much larger than it was back then. I'd be surprised if gmaxwell gave you another apology, unless he is just trying to be the better man and end it there. Had it been me that you had this confrontation with years ago, and you decided to bring it up in such a manner, I'd be right back at your throat taking back what apology I have you back then, and we would be mortal enemies. We are both stubborn and confrontational people Goat, you have to learn how to use it and not make an ass of yourself.

Assuming I'm completely wrong in my assessment, and this thing has been stinging away at you every night as you fall asleep, and you decided that you finally want more closure on the matter, this is definately the worst possible way to get it. If you thought this was a remotely good idea, you were mistaken. Can you think of one possible postive outcome that could come out of this? If not, I stand by my conclusion that you were fully aware that you could have just talked to gregory man to man and got that closure you needed, privately and mended any residual hurt feelings. Now, you just amplified them.

[/pissedoffDoctorPhil]

[casascius]

It doesn't look like an accusation to me.  It looks like a hypothetical question.  I think it's reasonable for someone ask about motives of someone who appears to be conducting business at an obvious financial loss.  I don't think very many people here, if anyone, see that as an accusation.

[midnightmagic]

My response to this was to put a bounty on evidence linking him to the crimes he had accused me off. Shockingly the number of offers for evidence connecting him to being a "-----" and involved in --------------- was shocking. It seems he is well known in that circle and there is a lot of evidence. I however have not seen the evidence directly myself but the number of people who have come out with this, something I had not asked for is just startling.     ( I censored this as I have not seen the proof )

Also I have had someone willing to claim the 200 bounty linking Gregory Maxwell to child porn. The terms offered would be to use escrow and the BTC would only be released after G Maxwell had been arrested. I personally feel that this person, despite claiming the evidence is real, would be fabricating the evidence and would try to frame Maxwell. Again I have not seen the evidence but I find it hard to believe. I am not going to pay for this and feel that it would be best to call off the bounty.

What I was trying to do was show that accusations and slander really do hurt people and one should stand behind what one claims. I was not trying to destroy his life.

Let's pretend for a moment we're in bizarro-rhetorical-world and he did libel you.. because even a cursory reading of Wikipedia would inform you that slander is spoken, libel is written.

What are you doing here? What's this, if not libel? Do you really think you're in a position to be the unimpugnable moral authority when you're offering a bounty to frame someone when you yourself state that the point of the bounty is to fabricate something about which you yourself have literally no idea or even inkling?

This is damaging behaviour: you are trying to do damage to someone else deliberately by implying you have discovered evidence by way of your bounty. Do you realise this?

You're not "letting this go". You're picking up a rock and trying to smash out his windshield as he drives by. "There, damage done," (in your mind,) "now I can let it go."

[SaltySpitoon]

Closure for me. Yes, I know there is the drama too but not my goal.

I'm just done with it, and will move on. Good to let it go after all these years.

Well I'm glad to hear it. If you actually need more closure, please try pming gmaxwell first. I'm sure you can have a much more reasonable and productive conversation between the two of you without others butting in.

That is not at all what happened. Offering a bounty for real evidence is not the same as trying to frame someone. However in the end it seems people are willing to attempt to frame him to collect the bounty, thus the bounty was removed. I have no desire for him to be punished for something he did not do.

On a lighter note, keep the bounty up, I was going to talk to gmaxwell about flying him to Europe to meet a woman under the age of concent in the U.S, but not in Europe (maybe 17 in France or something like that) and splitting the 200 BTC bounty 

[Cryddit]

I have sympathy for the OP.  He offered a modest bounty a couple years ago and is now watching US$200K of his money disappear. 

I can picture getting so frustrated about that that I'd feel a deep-seated need to have been right.  In similar situations, I have made an ass of myself for similar reasons.  I'm older now, and have learned a bit about what kind of crap goes on in my not-altogether-normal mind.  I compensate for it reasonably well most of the time these days. If I felt a need to take something like this up again after two years, I would know that it was time to see a therapist. 

[jackjack]

However in the end it seems people are willing to attempt to frame him to collect the bounty

People are willing to do a bad thing to win 100+k $?
No shit Sherlock!

[casascius]

I would not hold it against Goat to rescind / not honor that original offer.  And I would personally encourage it to be held as null and void.

At the time it appears to have been made, it was for a trivial amount that was probably not conceived as one that would grow to a value so as to be motivating in and of itself to encourage professional fabrication of evidence. Now it is worth so much that any claim on it would be disturbingly suspicious.  In fact in the event of any prosecution, the defense of "that evidence was made up, someone was after an unintended $150k reward and staged this all" would be very convincing and would practically secure exoneration.

Alternately, I propose that the standard of evidence that should be held to be satisfactory in the face of such a large "offer" is so high that, absent blatant obvious smoking gun video, no submission prior to the offer's formal recission is satisfactory enough to earn it.

[justusranvier]

There's only one interesting thing going on here:

Shockingly the number of offers for evidence connecting him to being a "-----" and involved in --------------- was shocking. It seems he is well known in that circle and there is a lot of evidence.

Is this something the greater Bitcoin community should know about or not? If so, then talk about that. If not, this thread is some sort of fake MAD posturing.

[justusranvier]

Anyway some of the more anarchist and anti-state people would not consider his supposed actions a crime, but the govt would.

That makes it sound like congratulations are in order then, not threats.

[casascius]

But now here I am speculating about gmaxwell's criminal activity with out much more evidence than he had about me.

Should the community know? If it is true then yes. If you want to buy the evidence I can get you into contact with the people willing to sell the information.

With all due respect, I think you're really misbehaving here.  I firmly believe you should walk away from this topic and leave it alone.  If you have evidence of crime, turn it over to his local law enforcement and let them decide what to do with it.  If we as the community are not the victim, and doesn't materially concern us, then any legal trouble he may or may not be in is his own personal matter and is truly none of our business.  Be done with it.

If he is involved in criminal activity it's none of our business to be "buying" and "selling" evidence.  That evidence, if any, is already irreparably tainted with these offers that if Maxwell has indeed committed a crime and law enforcement doesn't put him away for it on their own, then just consider he's gotten away with it free and clear, because it's going to be worthless for prosecuting him.  The world can wait for some future crime for him to commit and worry about it then, and let him be caught and convicted for it on the merits without the specter of sold evidence.