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Author Topic: 14 years ago: Satoshi 'moved on to other things'  (Read 345 times)
tabas (OP)
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April 23, 2025, 02:13:03 PM
 #1

This image is just a throwback of satoshi's email to Mike Hearn dated April 23, 2011. This screenshot circulates today on different social media, and so, I've thought of grabbing and sharing it here.
I think it's an honor to have such a conversation with satoshi, not just in email, telling that he's moved to other things and Bitcoin is in good hands with Gavin & everyone. Lucky also are those who were early in the forum and had the chance to discuss with him. And he's right that it's in the good hands and many of us have been blessed to know Bitcoin with its price moving up and becoming a valuable asset for most, and this great community, despite that he's already left, could be watching and being proud of their work.




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April 23, 2025, 02:29:18 PM
Merited by tabas (1)
 #2

I have more details for it with some sites archived this email, and its context as well.

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April 23, 2025, 02:32:45 PM
 #3

Lucky also are those who were early in the forum and had the chance to discuss with him. And he's right that it's in the good hands and many of us have been blessed to know Bitcoin with its price moving up and becoming a valuable asset for most, and this great community, despite that he's already left, could be watching and being proud of their work.
Just one good move signaling a bull and everyone is back up on their feet and enthusiastic enough to even go happily reading Satoshi's emails Grin. Well it's nice though honestly I personally was pissed at the network for a while, for a so two main reasons ( the "unnecessary" price movement and empty blocks.

Anyways back to the topic , Satoshi did well disappearing. so far the network hasn't faced a huge threat that he would need to fix and I'm not bothered if he fixes it behind the shadows too.

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April 23, 2025, 02:44:27 PM
Merited by Cyrus (1)
 #4

Lucky also are those who were early in the forum and had the chance to discuss with him. And he's right that it's in the good hands and many of us have been blessed to know Bitcoin with its price moving up and becoming a valuable asset for most, and this great community, despite that he's already left, could be watching and being proud of their work.
Just one good move signaling a bull and everyone is back up on their feet and enthusiastic enough to even go happily reading Satoshi's emails Grin. Well it's nice though honestly I personally was pissed at the network for a while, for a so two main reasons ( the "unnecessary" price movement and empty blocks.

Anyways back to the topic , Satoshi did well disappearing. so far the network hasn't faced a huge threat that he would need to fix and I'm not bothered if he fixes it behind the shadows too.

I hope it stays that way.

We don't need more Satoshi dramas coming in hot Cool
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April 23, 2025, 03:01:56 PM
 #5

What if one day Satoshi comes back with another invention that he adds on to Bitcoin? That would be pretty cool. Maybe he is waiting for something rather than having "left forever".

I don't mind that he was finished with Bitcoin development but it would have been nice to have him in the community.

But if you are watching, Satoshi, then let me just say: Thank you. Bitcoin is amazing.



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April 23, 2025, 03:24:26 PM
Merited by tabas (1), stwenhao (1)
 #6

I don't know what could have possibly been more interesting than Bitcoin to move onto, but my favorite (conspiracy) theory is that he "moved on" to the development of Namecoin, the first real altcoin. Mind you there is no explicit evidence that satoshi was actually involved in the development of Namecoin, or that he and Vincent Durham (thought to be a pseudonym), the first developer of Namecoin, are the same person.

I think it would be possible for BitDNS to be a completely separate network and separate block chain, yet share CPU power with Bitcoin.  The only overlap is to make it so miners can search for proof-of-work for both networks simultaneously.

The networks wouldn't need any coordination.  Miners would subscribe to both networks in parallel.  They would scan SHA such that if they get a hit, they potentially solve both at once.  A solution may be for just one of the networks if one network has a lower difficulty.

In the same post, he described what "merged mining" would look like before it actually existed:

Instead of fragmentation, networks share and augment each other's total CPU power.  This would solve the problem that if there are multiple networks, they are a danger to each other if the available CPU power gangs up on one.  Instead, all networks in the world would share combined CPU power, increasing the total strength.  It would make it easier for small networks to get started by tapping into a ready base of miners.

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April 23, 2025, 03:41:17 PM
 #7

I don't know what could have possibly been more interesting than Bitcoin to move onto, but my favorite (conspiracy) theory is that he "moved on" to the development of Namecoin, the first real altcoin.
Why leave the main project (without closing this project) and move on to developing a secondary one (the creation of which implies that this project is better, otherwise why create it at all)?

Mind you there is no explicit evidence that satoshi was actually involved in the development of Namecoin, or that he and Vincent Durham (thought to be a pseudonym), the first developer of Namecoin, are the same person.
Maybe the whole point is that Satoshi has nothing to do with this at all? Smiley


I think it's an honor to have such a conversation with satoshi, not just in email, telling that he's moved to other things and Bitcoin is in good hands with Gavin & everyone.
Other things could be anything. Even a small cafe on the seashore. Why did everyone decide that Satoshi had definitely moved on to create a new crypto-coin or a project directly related to cryptocurrencies?

The most likely (in my opinion) reason was that Satoshi's remaining time was limited and he flew to his native Venus is gone (or retired after a successful career in the secret services Smiley). At least, it would have been a beautiful legend (like an action movie hero walking off into the sunset after defeating all his enemies Smiley) justifying his decision to leave his project.

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April 23, 2025, 03:47:13 PM
 #8

Why leave the main project (without closing this project) and move on to developing a secondary one (the creation of which implies that this project is better, otherwise why create it at all)?

It wouldn't be a good idea to ever close either project as both still have massive room for improvement, especially as technology advances. I really don't know.  Cheesy 

Mind you there is no explicit evidence that satoshi was actually involved in the development of Namecoin, or that he and Vincent Durham (thought to be a pseudonym), the first developer of Namecoin, are the same person.
Maybe the whole point is that Satoshi has nothing to do with this at all? Smiley

Yeah there is no actual proof that he did. Its just as good as a conspiracy theory as any other I've heard, so that's why I like it. Its better than Craig Wright saying the thing was Metanet, which turned out to be a big nothingburger. How surprising.

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April 23, 2025, 03:47:37 PM
 #9

What if one day Satoshi comes back with another invention that he adds on to Bitcoin? That would be pretty cool. Maybe he is waiting for something rather than having "left forever".
Satoshi Nakamoto designed Bitcoin in a decentralized way so in 2025 or future, it helps comes back with development, it will not be deployed directly by him but it will be a proposal, BIP and will need to be supported by Bitcoin nodes before it is available for deployment on Bitcoin block chain.

Not sure about Namecoin and that developer but in the last year, around a documentary film launch, theymos had a post to share his thinking on probability of different Satoshi Nakamoto candidates.

Are all of the interviews in the trailer original? I got the feeling that several of them were interviews I saw many years ago, though I could be wrong.

My current feeling on Satoshi's identity is:
 - Sassaman is a very bad candidate. If this is their conclusion, then they totally failed to do proper research.
 - 50% chance it's someone nobody's ever heard of, and nobody will ever figure it out
 - 35% chance it's Hal Finney. (Over time, I've moved more probability into this category.)
 - 10% chance it's someone else in the Bitcoin-verse
 - 5% chance it's a group within the CIA

But I'm really not a fan of the whole "search for Satoshi" genre. Being anonymous, Satoshi is an excellent myth and source of inspiration, since we can't see much of his flawed humanity. Mythical-Satoshi is a humble man who, with a lot of persistence and skill, but not with a level of brilliance beyond the reach of us mortals, single-handedly created a clockwork device so powerful that it shook the world. And then, in an action which nobody in the traditional halls of power would ever take, he had the wisdom to walk away: a modern Cincinnatus. I like that myth very much, and I'd rather it not be tainted by association with an actual human.

@theymos, did someone try to reach out to you

No, I only heard about the documentary when I read the headline on CoinDesk today.
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April 23, 2025, 04:12:39 PM
 #10

This image is just a throwback of satoshi's email to Mike Hearn dated April 23, 2011. This screenshot circulates today on different social media, and so, I've thought of grabbing and sharing it here.
I think it's an honor to have such a conversation with satoshi, not just in email, telling that he's moved to other things and Bitcoin is in good hands with Gavin & everyone. Lucky also are those who were early in the forum and had the chance to discuss with him. And he's right that it's in the good hands and many of us have been blessed to know Bitcoin with its price moving up and becoming a valuable asset for most, and this great community, despite that he's already left, could be watching and being proud of their work.

Bitcoin is really is safe hands and Satoshi will be pleased with his invention. Bitcoin has grown bigger than Satosh, it is now a major player in global economy. The early adopters who were able to keep their cheap coins till now will not have any reason to be poor. Some of them have retired early and started living the life of thier dreams. Others are not so lucky to keep their coins till date, while some people lost their because they lost confidence in the coin and abandoned it. I don't know if Satoshi would be pleased about institutional investors that have driven Bitcoin towards centralization.

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April 23, 2025, 04:17:57 PM
 #11

Quote
my favorite (conspiracy) theory is that he "moved on" to the development of Namecoin
Definitely not, because technically, NameCoin didn't follow Satoshi's description:

Instead of fragmentation, networks share and augment each other's total CPU power.  This would solve the problem that if there are multiple networks, they are a danger to each other if the available CPU power gangs up on one.  Instead, all networks in the world would share combined CPU power, increasing the total strength.  It would make it easier for small networks to get started by tapping into a ready base of miners.
Read it sentence by sentence, and compare NameCoin's difficulty with Bitcoin's difficulty. In case of NameCoin, they have their own difficulty. They trace only 80-byte headers, which are submitted to their network. Which means, that you can do 51% attack on NameCoin, even if you can't do 51% attack on Bitcoin, with the same hashrate. Which means, that it is strictly incompatible with Satoshi's description, so it is very unlikely, that he was directly involved in creating this altcoin.

Note that in practice, no network I am aware of, can trace all block headers, and compute the global difficulty correctly. Even Bitcoin traces only its own difficulty, which is why copycat-altcoins can be 51% attacked, because the code has no assumptions, that there could be a stronger, but invalid chain of headers elsewhere. And there is no code to detect that situation, which is why you can 51% attack BCH, BSV, and other chains. If they would truly believe in Proof of Work, then they would at least trace the heaviest chain, and form appropriate consensus rules for that kind of situation.

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet and testnet4.
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April 23, 2025, 07:17:44 PM
 #12

Satoshi moved on to other things. That doesn't mean he won't be at the close line, watching closely on how far his creation(Bitcoin) has gone that makes the whole world bustling up and down towards its price fluctuations.

Well, Satoshi has done marvelous for bringing Bitcoin to us and staying anonymous at the same time. Had it been his identity is known, there would have been questions and answers for him on how Bitcoin was made to function the way it does. What's the brainy behind it, an explanation is needed

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April 23, 2025, 07:22:00 PM
 #13

In the years to come, Satoshi would still be remembered for his discovery of financial technology called Bitcoin, and I doubt if there would be any other financial technology that would be discovered in the next 100 years compared to Bitcoin as it exists now. Bitcoin came just like a surprise and was resisted by the government and individuals who lacked knowledge of where the financial institutions were heading. I believe this was amongst the reasons Satoshi hid his identity so he doesn't get into trouble out of the ignorance of people and government, and here we are today, the government and individuals benefiting hugely from the technology developed by him.

He made a wise move to protect himself, and also made it possible for the freedom of control of the asset under self-custody, and today his technology and idea have gone viral all over the world. He said he moved on, and that is it. After successfully inventing Bitcoin, he left it in good hands to continue the good works he had started. I wish Satoshi good luck in all his future discoveries wherever he is. He has done well for mankind, and his name will forever be crested with gold in the book of history.


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April 23, 2025, 07:44:46 PM
 #14

Satoshi is a legend and somehow feel like he is around just watching the drama around Bitcoin and the crypto market has at large, and from this conversation he had with Mike hearn I also think he intentionally kept himself out of the spotlight to focus and work on another great project (that would be cool) and I pray this decision of his to stay anonymous doesn't give us away to a fake Satoshi someday because what if someone decide to impersonate the real Satoshi with full evidence, because everyone is so eager to meet the Creator of cryptocurrency.

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April 23, 2025, 07:50:21 PM
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 #15

A very important day for everyone who uses BTC and is around here
Sometimes I wonder if Satoshi is still with us, in case he is one person (not a group) and alive
And if so, what could he have done after BTC? What are those other things?

Everything seems so mystical around Satoshi, the emails, the clues, the people involved in the beginning who are no longer with us, and it seems so far away, but it's been “only” 16 years and it would be completely plausible for him to be with us and still working on development maybe, or other things like he said  Cheesy

 
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April 23, 2025, 08:36:38 PM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #16

I don't know what could have possibly been more interesting than Bitcoin to move onto, but my favorite (conspiracy) theory is that he "moved on" to the development of Namecoin, the first real altcoin. Mind you there is no explicit evidence that satoshi was actually involved in the development of Namecoin, or that he and Vincent Durham (thought to be a pseudonym), the first developer of Namecoin, are the same person.
I like this (conspiracy) theory.
It is just good to think about it for a moment and the possibility of it being true.

Quote
Namecoin is an experimental open-source technology which improves decentralization, security, censorship resistance, privacy, and speed of certain components of the Internet infrastructure such as DNS and identities. (For the technically minded, Namecoin is a key/value pair registration and transfer system based on the Bitcoin technology.) Bitcoin frees money – Namecoin frees DNS, identities, and other technologies.
How old am I?
I am just learning about Namecoin for the first time. I need to do a lot of reading. And it looks like a really interesting project, if I may say.
Thanks for mentioning this (conspiracy) theory, I will delve into it.

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April 23, 2025, 08:39:16 PM
Merited by tabas (1)
 #17

Quote
It is just good to think about it for a moment and the possibility of it being true.
There are more technical reasons, why I think it is unlikely:

You have one piece of work.  If you solve it, it will solve a block from both Bitcoin and BitDNS.  In concept, they're tied together by a Merkle Tree.  To hand it in to Bitcoin, you break off the BitDNS branch, and to hand it in to BitDNS, you break off the Bitcoin branch.
Again: read it sentence by sentence, word by word. And tell me: where you can see this implementation in NameCoin? Do you have any "merkle root of all chains" anywhere? Can you see the accumulated Proof of Work for SHA-256, and go into different chains, by reaching different leaves in the "global superchain merkle tree"? NameCoin didn't even try to implement things in that way, and first copy-pasted Bitcoin's code, and then forked into a version with Merged Mining, which was completely incompatible with Satoshi's description.

In practice, to retrofit it for Bitcoin, the BitDNS side would have to have maybe ~200 extra bytes, but that's not a big deal.  You've been talking about 50 domains per block, which would dwarf that little 200 bytes per block for backward compatibility.  We could potentially schedule a far in future block when Bitcoin would upgrade to a modernised arrangement with the Merkle Tree on top, if we care enough about saving a few bytes.
See? At that point in time, Satoshi even thought about potential Bitcoin network upgrade, where instead of what you have today, you would have that "superchain merkle root" available by default! And not only NameCoin's design was not superior enough, to convince Bitcoin developers to upgrade into "multichain code", but instead, it discouraged people from trying Merged Mining, when they saw, that NameCoin can be 51% attacked, without harming Bitcoin's chain, because different networks had different difficulties! And since then, altcoins started to switch from SHA-256 into different hash functions, because they couldn't implement Merged Mining correctly, and had no other ideas, how to prevent their alternative chains from attacks.

Note that the chains are below this new Merkle Tree.  That is, each of Bitcoin and BitDNS have their own chain links inside their blocks.  This is inverted from the common timestamp server arrangement, where the chain is on top and then the Merkle Tree, because that creates one common master chain.  This is two timestamp servers not sharing a chain.
To understand it better, you can try to design a multichain scenario from scratch, instead of trying to combine things in backward-compatible way. If you look at the block header structure, with 80 bytes, which is commonly used, and you compare it with an alternative structure, when you want to support multiple chains from the very beginning, then you can see, how these two models are different, and how far from that NameCoin is.

And also, when it comes to backward compatibility, some people believe, that such Bitcoin's upgrade could be done only by some hard-fork. But I believe, that it can be also done as a soft-fork. For example: currently, the only counted Proof of Work is placed in the block header. However, if you imagine a chain, where transactions are grinded, to begin with many zero bits, and if you create consensus rules, to follow not only the heaviest chain of headers, but also the heaviest chain of accumulated work inside a given merkle tree, then you can notice, that it is possible to require a higher Proof of Work in a soft-fork way. And in general, this is what is needed, to distinguish between two potential chains of accumulated work, and follow the stronger one.

Quote
Sometimes I wonder if Satoshi is still with us, in case he is one person (not a group) and alive
He may be alive, but I don't think he is still interacting with us. Leaving the project was crucial for its success. You can see many altcoins, and their creators, which can highly influence the direction, and how "the creator said this" can negatively affect it, by making things more centrally controlled, than they should be.

Also, it is quite important to not come back, as long as it is possible to send any "I am Satoshi" signal. When all ways of proving, that someone is Satoshi, would be cryptographically destroyed (because Satoshi used cryptography from 2009, which may be fully broken in the future, if he will not send any new signals), then maybe he could try to contact with the community, but in general, it is too risky, so it is very unlikely, that he will ever try.

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what could he have done after BTC? What are those other things?
There are many things outside Bitcoin, that you can do as a C++ programmer.

At some point I became convinced there was a way to do this without any trust required at all and couldn't resist to keep thinking about it.  Much more of the work was designing than coding.
See? It is all about having some simple idea, and constantly following it, until you make it. And it is not that easy to come up with simple ideas, because people tend to overengineer things:

Because of that, I wanted to design it to support every possible transaction type I could think of.  The problem was, each thing required special support code and data fields whether it was used or not, and only covered one special case at a time.  It would have been an explosion of special cases.
And I guess, if he is alive and well, then he is just jumping back and forth in some overengineering trap, where you want to design a perfect system, and you are unsatisfied most of the time, because your solution is too complex to release it.

Edit: By the way: Satoshi explicitly said "50 domains per block", while NameCoin simply started from 50 coins, and making a domain means burning 0.01, which means potentially starting from 5k domains per block, and including a system of coins, instead of a system of domains in the first place! With amounts! With fees! With additional coin supply, where none of that is needed, if you would want to integrate it with Bitcoin instead, and use BTC to pay for domains!

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet and testnet4.
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April 24, 2025, 03:15:39 AM
 #18

Definitely not, because technically, NameCoin didn't follow Satoshi's description:

You're right, it is not technically an exact implementation of what satoshi described for BitDNS. But that doesn't disprove satoshi's involvement in Namecoin. (again, I have no proof that he was involved, just that some of the general approach he described for BitDNS found its way into NMC.)

Satoshi himself made several changes to the codebase of early versions of Bitcoin; most likely because it was pointed out to him that there was a more efficient way of doing things than he originally intended. So its not a far stretch to imagine that just because he said something should be one way at one point, it doesn't mean he couldn't change his mind about it later.

In case of NameCoin, they have their own difficulty. They trace only 80-byte headers, which are submitted to their network. Which means, that you can do 51% attack on NameCoin, even if you can't do 51% attack on Bitcoin, with the same hashrate.

In theory, but its never happened as NMC has a hashrate of about 50% of BTC, which makes it ungodly secure compared to any other SHA256 coin (aside from BTC). For reference, NMC is about 470 EH/s while BCH is about 3.3 EH/s. There was a risk of a 51% attack in 2016 due to mining pool centralization. It was also threatened as early as 2011, before the implementation of merged mining.

In any case, I said upfront that it was a conspiracy theory - not even just a run-of-the-mill "theory" - its just something I'd heard others claim in the past.

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April 24, 2025, 07:18:52 AM
 #19

A very important day for everyone who uses BTC and is around here
Sometimes I wonder if Satoshi is still with us, in case he is one person (not a group) and alive
And if so, what could he have done after BTC? What are those other things?

Everything seems so mystical around Satoshi, the emails, the clues, the people involved in the beginning who are no longer with us, and it seems so far away, but it's been “only” 16 years and it would be completely plausible for him to be with us and still working on development maybe, or other things like he said  Cheesy

The mystery is so interesting because it's so long-lived, it's like the One Piece of crypto space Roll Eyes

Which is as good as it is bad for those trying to hype on it.
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