Will the rich class accept reality without immigration?

[Dogedegen]

Yes, some people are ready to do the job at lesser pay which is a crime according to the protestors?

Do you know what a tragedy of the commons is? By doing this you are making it worse for everyone else. This is a common thing happening in Europe and is one of the reasons why even high skilled wages are significantly less than their counterparts in the USA. Every time that someone accepts any position for relatively low pay for that type of job they are making everyone worse off. Every time that someone refuses and demands more they are making everyone better off. Trade unions are just an organized version of this, come on this isn't that hard..

Business is business they want profit and will look every possible way to maximize their profit-making making and this is what is happening here so patriotism or supporting locals are not fair, if they want then they must work at the same wage. And there's a minimum wage approved by that law which is what the big corporations pay to these employees but these are still way low.

Minimum wage laws are useless as I have said, they are not a solution to this.

The only solution is Americans or whatever country who says we don't want immigrants then must be willing to work for the same pay.

No. If Americans refuse to work for this pay and there are no immigrants then the pay must increase. This is part of basic economics regarding wages, please look it up. It is crazy that you would argue for things that actually are detrimental to the average person.

[Findingnemo]

~It is crazy that you would argue for things that actually are detrimental to the average person.

So you don't consider the immigrants as people? If they accept low pay means they can survive with that, this isn't hard for me to understand because this is simply based on demand and supply.

I think, I made my point clear if two person is capable of doing the same job the compnay will prefer the one who get lesser pay because it is business and this is how it works, there is no emotional value when it comes to such things.

[Joy- maker]

Trump is not against immigration though. He is against illegal immigration. It is a big difference. As long as a worker with a certain skillset is really needed in the US, he won’t have much difficulty to get a job.

There are also loopholes in the immigration law that enables people to hire their friends, relatives etc and Trump exactly sees what’s happening. That looks “legal” on paper but in reality it does more harm than good to the country.

you can't come to conclusion that trump is not against immigration, because you are not in his mind to know if his against immigration or not, although you might be trying to prove a point here that trump is not against immigration, but that point you're trying prove doesn't change anything nor change the mind of people, citizens of other countries were forcefully debunked back to there various countries because there were protesters on the streets protesting that they are taking their jobs and trump as the president of US decided to act base on that protest, so let's not cover things up, because I don't like it when people are trying to cover things, and if we check deep down we are going to discover that those people protesting on streets that they are taking their jobs has no qualifications for those jobs.

[Lida93]

Snip

This literally does not happen even in 10% of the cases. Stop writing lies. Neither in America nor in Europe. Most migrants who come stay on the lowest paying jobs or welfare for ever.

I understand that truth are a hard pills to swallow but you can't always shade it when it's being spoken about. Calling it a lie is still your opinion anyway, but I just stated what I know about. I have some childhood friends who are currently living in the US who mostly didn't started out with a good paying job due to the qualifications they took over there with them from here, but in the course of time they have being able to upgrade their qualifications which now earns them better job than what they were doing when they first arrived.

[Dogedegen]

~It is crazy that you would argue for things that actually are detrimental to the average person.

So you don't consider the immigrants as people? If they accept low pay means they can survive with that, this isn't hard for me to understand because this is simply based on demand and supply.

The state has a duty first and foremost to its people, and secondly to nobody else. Most immigrants are making things worse for everyone in the country, and as such they are a negative effect.

I think, I made my point clear if two person is capable of doing the same job the compnay will prefer the one who get lesser pay because it is business and this is how it works, there is no emotional value when it comes to such things.

Nope. All you have made clear is that you would fail even the basic university economics course. Most of you superficial thinkers that have no real education tend to have very hypocritical and emotional opinions that are complete delusions. On the one side you would argue for minimum wage laws to increase wages, on the other side you would argue for things that reduce wages. Very smart as usual.

I understand that truth are a hard pills to swallow but you can't always shade it when it's being spoken about. Calling it a lie is still your opinion anyway, but I just stated what I know about. I have some childhood friends who are currently living in the US who mostly didn't started out with a good paying job due to the qualifications they took over there with them from here, but in the course of time they have being able to upgrade their qualifications which now earns them better job than what they were doing when they first arrived.

All the objective data shows that most immigrants are a net negative for the country to which they emigrate to. The very case that you are using anecdotal evidence to disprove this claim shows that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are a very uneducated person. If you were good and qualified people your own country would not be a sorry mess. The fact of the matter is you are bad people, mostly unqualified, undisciplined and very often uncivilized. You don't deserve to enjoy the benefits of a country like our dear America.   You and your friends can go back to the country that you have come from.

Let's revisit the data again, I should include it in every reply.



Criminals confirmed.





Net negative on economy confirmed. The situation is so bad that one of these migrant groups never contributes positively to the country at all, at no point in their lives as a collective. They are always a net negative. There is nothing to dispute here if you know basic statistics. If you want to whine because you are biased then you can say that Denmark faked its own data.  

[el kaka22]

While it is understandable to think that immigrants are "taking your job", it's the capitalist that is giving your job to that immigrant instead. So realize the real enemy, it is not the guy who takes half of minimum wage under the table that is your enemy, it's the boss that does it.

Unfortunately many people fail to realize that, because the elite do not want you to look at that part. I have a friend who immigrated to Netherlands, working in a very big global company, and the amount of money she makes isn't even enough to cover her rent all by herself, so she lives with roommates whereas the friend she has that does the same job but Dutch, makes nearly three times the amount she makes. You think immigrants are fine with that? They are only accepting because that's the best they are offered, if they reject, they will not make any money.

[Inwestour]

While it is understandable to think that immigrants are "taking your job", it's the capitalist that is giving your job to that immigrant instead. So realize the real enemy, it is not the guy who takes half of minimum wage under the table that is your enemy, it's the boss that does it.

Unfortunately many people fail to realize that, because the elite do not want you to look at that part. I have a friend who immigrated to Netherlands, working in a very big global company, and the amount of money she makes isn't even enough to cover her rent all by herself, so she lives with roommates whereas the friend she has that does the same job but Dutch, makes nearly three times the amount she makes. You think immigrants are fine with that? They are only accepting because that's the best they are offered, if they reject, they will not make any money.

I think it depends on many factors. For example, knowing the language significantly affects an emigrant’s salary. If you don’t know the language and agree to any conditions offered by the employer just to have a job and pay for housing and food, that’s also a wrong step because, in a way, it feels like a dead end. If you’re only covering housing and food, how will you be able to develop further? On the other hand, you can agree to this at the beginning, while learning the language at work with colleagues, if there’s an opportunity to do so. Later, you should ask your employer for a pay raise, and if they don’t increase it, you need to look for another job. I think there are always ways to grow.

[davis196]

Many companies are complaining about dealing with a shortage of workers, if immigration stops. On the other hand, many people are talking about the AI revolution creating mass unemployment. Which one is true? Will there be a growing demand for workers, or there will be an increasing unemployment rate caused by AI? The two statements are contradicting each other. If AI creates mass unemployment, this means that we clearly don't need any immigrants. What's the point of importing cheap but unqualified labor, when the factories of the future would be full of AI robots?
An AI robot would be 10 times from productive than any immigrant coming from Latin America or Africa.
Mass immigration is something the cultural Marxists want. They want it not because of economical reasons, but because they want the destruction of the national state.

[Rabata]

It is natural that the type of work changes with the development of technology, but I do not think that this will disrupt the labor market. Developed countries need workers. But if they try to cover it only with the people of their own country, they will not be able to do so because the cost of labor there will be higher. And if they can take skilled workers from developing or poor countries, they will be able to fill that gap at a lower cost. Moreover, when the cost is high, it will affect the bottom line and if the competition cannot be maintained in this competitive market, the business will not survive either.

There is no way to say that people will be unemployed because these AI have been created because skilled manpower will be required to create and maintain those AI. So I do not think that there will be a labor shortage or that the scope of employment will decrease. But of course, people will have to develop themselves by making themselves skilled along with the development of technology so that they can adopt themselves quickly.

[Fiatless]

All the objective data shows that most immigrants are a net negative for the country to which they emigrate to. The very case that you are using anecdotal evidence to disprove this claim shows that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are a very uneducated person. If you were good and qualified people your own country would not be a sorry mess. The fact of the matter is you are bad people, mostly unqualified, undisciplined and very often uncivilized. You don't deserve to enjoy the benefits of a country like our dear America.   You and your friends can go back to the country that you have come from.

Let's revisit the data again, I should include it in every reply.

You keep on talking down on people because of where they come from. And always brandishing this data like a trophy. Who destroyed Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan? Read about how the US backed the invasion of Somalia, which has destabilised that country. America and its allies keep intruding in the internal affairs of other nations. There wouldn't have been many people seeking to leave their nation if the US had not contributed to wars and conflicts. The invasion of Libya affected the security and economy of Africa and led to an increase in migration. What was the offence of Muammar Gaddafi?

Now, Trump wants to attack Venezuela for nothing. If Venezuelan refugees begin to enter the US illegally after these attacks, you and others will begin to revolt. As long as the US doesn't mind its business, it might continue to suffer from the repercussions of its failure to respect other nations' territorial integrity. If you want people to come to your country, leave them alone.    

[Hispo]

They don't "need" immigration, they can move their operations anywhere they want, that's why they are the rich, and we are not.

...

You cannot move American Crops of tomatoes, peanuts and chillies from the United States to China or other asian country to be harvested by the poorest people on the planned, for obvious reasons.
The fact is, most American citizens do not want to work harvesting tomatoes under the sun, specially if they are getting paid less than minimum wage, as immigrants are paid. Even if companies found citizens who would like to take such a hard job, it is unlikely food companies would absord the price difference, they will opt to transfer the price to the final consumer instead.
Eventually, the United States will need to open to immigration again, when presidency changes.

[Dogedegen]

While it is understandable to think that immigrants are "taking your job", it's the capitalist that is giving your job to that immigrant instead. So realize the real enemy, it is not the guy who takes half of minimum wage under the table that is your enemy, it's the boss that does it.

Unfortunately many people fail to realize that, because the elite do not want you to look at that part. I have a friend who immigrated to Netherlands, working in a very big global company, and the amount of money she makes isn't even enough to cover her rent all by herself, so she lives with roommates whereas the friend she has that does the same job but Dutch, makes nearly three times the amount she makes. You think immigrants are fine with that? They are only accepting because that's the best they are offered, if they reject, they will not make any money.

You are again shifting the blame from a majority of individuals onto a tiny minority. You are doing the same that you are accusing others of, just the inverse of it. If there is no migrant that is willing to take the lowly paid job, the wages for those jobs will increase. Jobs can't be indefinitely left open, that's not how things work. One of the main reasons why wages have stagnated is the endless supply of migrants who will take any job at any pay because they have no qualifications for something better, and because they don't understand that this hurts everyone including themselves.

Many companies are complaining about dealing with a shortage of workers, if immigration stops. On the other hand, many people are talking about the AI revolution creating mass unemployment. Which one is true? Will there be a growing demand for workers, or there will be an increasing unemployment rate caused by AI? The two statements are contradicting each other. If AI creates mass unemployment, this means that we clearly don't need any immigrants. What's the point of importing cheap but unqualified labor, when the factories of the future would be full of AI robots?

It is coming, it just needs another couple of years or a decade. The first commercially successful general purpose robot will make a huge change here even if it is going to be inefficient and expensive and have errors as a first product normally does. This will lead to a revolution in robotics. Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5mYMavctM. This is today now imagine what will be in 5 or 10 years time.

An AI robot would be 10 times from productive than any immigrant coming from Latin America or Africa.

This is an understatement even if some Latin immigrants can be really good workers.

You keep on talking down on people because of where they come from. And always brandishing this data like a trophy. Who destroyed Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan? Read about how the US backed the invasion of Somalia, which has destabilised that country. America and its allies keep intruding in the internal affairs of other nations. There wouldn't have been many people seeking to leave their nation if the US had not contributed to wars and conflicts. The invasion of Libya affected the security and economy of Africa and led to an increase in migration. What was the offence of Muammar Gaddafi?

Now, Trump wants to attack Venezuela for nothing. If Venezuelan refugees begin to enter the US illegally after these attacks, you and others will begin to revolt. As long as the US doesn't mind its business, it might continue to suffer from the repercussions of its failure to respect other nations' territorial integrity. If you want people to come to your country, leave them alone.    

Talk about a whataboutism. Sure I have no problems agreeing with the fact that US is largely responsible for destroying those countries. Does this change the fact that most immigrants from those countries are uncivilized savages and criminals? It does not. Both can be true at the same time.

You cannot move American Crops of tomatoes, peanuts and chillies from the United States to China or other asian country to be harvested by the poorest people on the planned, for obvious reasons.
The fact is, most American citizens do not want to work harvesting tomatoes under the sun, specially if they are getting paid less than minimum wage, as immigrants are paid. Even if companies found citizens who would like to take such a hard job, it is unlikely food companies would absord the price difference, they will opt to transfer the price to the final consumer instead.
Eventually, the United States will need to open to immigration again, when presidency changes.

No, most of that workforce will be replaced soon. They are not necessary and are 1 technological jump away from replacement.

[Mehmet69]

It is natural that the type of work changes with the development of technology, but I do not think that this will disrupt the labor market. Developed countries need workers. But if they try to cover it only with the people of their own country, they will not be able to do so because the cost of labor there will be higher. And if they can take skilled workers from developing or poor countries, they will be able to fill that gap at a lower cost. Moreover, when the cost is high, it will affect the bottom line and if the competition cannot be maintained in this competitive market, the business will not survive either.

There is no way to say that people will be unemployed because these AI have been created because skilled manpower will be required to create and maintain those AI. So I do not think that there will be a labor shortage or that the scope of employment will decrease. But of course, people will have to develop themselves by making themselves skilled along with the development of technology so that they can adopt themselves quickly.

Yes, you are right. Just inventing technology will not reduce employment opportunities. Because labor force will be required to maintain all those technologies properly. So if developed countries only want to utilize their labor force, their production cost will increase. They are interested in hiring workers from different countries at low cost to reduce production cost. But in poor countries, they cannot be skilled due to lack of proper education system. Unskilled workers cannot generate profit properly for a developed country. If every poor country can produce skilled workers properly, there will be no shortage of jobs.

But instead of working on increasing their skills, workers in poor countries just keep blaming their country and their fate for the lack of jobs. So now instead of blaming technology and AI, we should make ourselves digitally skilled. Because skilled labor force is a blessing for any country.