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Author Topic: Difficulty rising while BTC price declining  (Read 1304 times)
giantdragon (OP)
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January 05, 2015, 01:18:55 AM
 #1

I cannot explain why difficulty started rising recently while BTC/$ price fallen sharply! It looks very strange...



hedgy73
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January 05, 2015, 08:03:36 AM
 #2

Btc price falling is because people are selling off their btc to cover costs / pay utility bills / purchase new equipment etc. Difficulty increasing is because there is more hardware being produced and mining now than ever before which is increasing in number by the day as hardware manufacturers mine with new equipment before its sold and shipped out. The hardware manufacturers are the only real winners in mining at the moment they can't go wrong.

Also very few people can afford to hold onto their btc.
BitCoinPokerBro
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January 05, 2015, 08:42:51 AM
 #3

Btc price falling is because people are selling off their btc to cover costs / pay utility bills / purchase new equipment etc. Difficulty increasing is because there is more hardware being produced and mining now than ever before which is increasing in number by the day as hardware manufacturers mine with new equipment before its sold and shipped out. The hardware manufacturers are the only real winners in mining at the moment they can't go wrong.

Also very few people can afford to hold onto their btc.

Everyone forgets about the rich list http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 some pretty fuckin weird things going on there. Scroll down and check all the addresses with 10,000 to 50,000 coins with a last activity of september 6th. 50+ wallets! The top 100 accounts for 20% of total bitcoin supply and more than 50% (probably closer to 75-90%) of that belongs to one person.

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January 05, 2015, 01:08:50 PM
 #4

Difficulty is shooting up as all the people that were mining that wannabe coin paycoin switched back to BTC. Also bitmain has new miners coming out that mine 1TH each so that is increasing the network tremendously
mavericklm
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January 05, 2015, 01:21:22 PM
 #5

Quote
I cannot explain why difficulty started rising recently

paycoin mining and hardware manufacturers combined in 1 is the result of this abrupt rising.
the price atm is fine for them as they have already the know-how, cheap electricity, the normal miners for dumping their old hardware, etc...
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January 05, 2015, 01:28:07 PM
Last edit: January 05, 2015, 01:39:52 PM by aigeezer
 #6

Btc price falling is because people are selling off their btc to cover costs / pay utility bills / purchase new equipment etc. Difficulty increasing is because there is more hardware being produced and mining now than ever before which is increasing in number by the day as hardware manufacturers mine with new equipment before its sold and shipped out. The hardware manufacturers are the only real winners in mining at the moment they can't go wrong.

Also very few people can afford to hold onto their btc.

Everyone forgets about the rich list http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 some pretty fuckin weird things going on there. Scroll down and check all the addresses with 10,000 to 50,000 coins with a last activity of september 6th. 50+ wallets! The top 100 accounts for 20% of total bitcoin supply and more than 50% (probably closer to 75-90%) of that belongs to one person.



Interesting. The pattern continues at all even numbers of coins (10,000 5,000 3,000 2,000 1,800 1,500 1,300 etc). September 6 is the last activity date for a huge amount of BTC. So, for whatever reasons, the present turmoil apparently does not involve those stashes.

I have no explanation to suggest but (wild guess) it feels more like a programming artifact than a human behaviour pattern.

Edit: I forgot you can sort on column headings. Sorting the richlist on "Last Transaction In" suggests that almost everything in BTC-world happened on September 6. Gotta be an artifact (he whimpered).

philipma1957
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January 05, 2015, 01:43:12 PM
 #7

   How about this it is Jan not Dec.  I have 4,000,000 coins from the days coins were cheap and easy.  I have decided to  sell  some of them off in Jan 2015 why? the tax will not be due until April of 2016.

  In the USA it is 2015 and the file date for 2015 is April 2016. The idea above is the one that makes sense.  Why am I driving coin price down? well how about I want to hurt both bitfury and KNC.  For being the pricks that they are.  I waited until they built out their centers and I am now going to bust their ass by driving price down to about 150 usd.


BTW if I was and I am not the inventor of BTC  I can do this with the 3 or 4 million coins I mined in the beginning.

Both KNC and Bitfury must have opened big  centers to fuck us without thinking the full extent of what our  BTC creator could do to them.  I see the price dropping until all big data centers are truly hurt.

A stash of 4,000,000 coins is possible for Satoshi Nakamoto

 and sell off 100,000 to 300,000 will do a nice job on price.

Satoshi Nakamoto  can have as many as 4,000,000 coins my guess is he has 2,000,000.

 Satoshi Nakamoto   driving the price down just as both bitfury and knc sank big money into their fuck btc centers is something they may have never dreamed any one would do no less Satoshi himself doing it to them.


Remember this is a spec thread have some fun.  I would gladly lose 2k this month to see bitfury and knc get bitch-slapped.

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Dexter770221
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January 05, 2015, 02:08:35 PM
 #8

.....
Remember this is a spec thread have some fun.  I would gladly lose 2k this month to see bitfury and knc get bitch-slapped.
Why Satoshi would like to do that? He predicted that at some level minning will head that way, to big datacenters. Remember, without hashing power BTC will be worthless, no transaction confirmations == dead BTC with 0 value. Block solving is a reward for miners. They put alot of effort to maintain network, they must be rewarded for that.
Bitfury and KnC were sponsored by miners, they just made a good job, fulfilled promises made to miners. Don't blame them now...

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Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
mavericklm
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January 05, 2015, 02:22:31 PM
 #9

I start to like u more and more Philip, but your idea is a bit cartoonish. maybe not Grin
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January 05, 2015, 02:28:53 PM
 #10

I start to like u more and more Philip, but your idea is a bit cartoonish. maybe not Grin

Like I said it is a spec thread.

@Dexter770221 


 more hash power is worthless to btc values if it is not in the hands of a few dozen or more companies.

If you want to use a payment system  you want multiple sources of the coin not one from knc and one from bitfury.

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 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
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.. PLAY NOW ..
Dexter770221
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January 05, 2015, 02:35:06 PM
 #11

I start to like u more and more Philip, but your idea is a bit cartoonish. maybe not Grin

Like I said it is a spec thread.

@Dexter770221  


 more hash power is worthless to btc values if it is not in the hands of a few dozen or more companies.

If you want to use a payment system  you want multiple sources of the coin not one from knc and one from bitfury.
Yes, dozen or two companies is definitely better, but this is young market. There will be more, just like there was only few internet providers 20 years ago... (in my country - Poland there was one). Market and competition will verify all weaknesses of those two Wink

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arieq
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January 10, 2015, 03:31:54 AM
 #12

When the difficulty is going up and the price of BTC is going down, that's a sign that people are hooking up machines that are going to be losing money

Kluge
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January 10, 2015, 04:31:03 AM
 #13

Innovation. Even with 3-6% annual inflation, tech prices always come down. This isn't like Ford or Tesla where they make sure their costs are low BEFORE they start manufacture because time is worth so much more in the tech space and competition's rapidly executing ideas, so generally, you get maybe three months between the idea stage and tape-out, and then maybe a month or two after that before you need to start pushing product out the door or face having to redesign your obsolete scrap - and this isn't really something exclusive to ASICs. Everything in tech is rapidly advancing, far faster than could be negated by inflation or colluding competition. With that in mind, I read about Ford's aluminum F-150, and it's just.... that should've happened 10 years ago, because I'm not used to their shit-slow pace. They have an unbelievably slow marketplace. Most cars still use non-variable compressors for A/C. It's basically either on or off, and all that "waste cold" when you don't want it full-blast is ejected. There's almost nowhere else on Earth you can get away with wasting air conditioning but in the auto industry. -And it really did take the government stepping in with efficiency standards the market called unachievable for this to start changing - for variable compressors and aluminum bodies - which is infuriating as a libertarian. I mean, we might still not even have standard seat belts if Ralph Nader weren't such a pretentious dickhead.

Game consoles were very much subject to this from the late 80s to early aughts when the market was still competitive and new tech was rapidly being shoved out for use by hundreds of manufacturers - and just about anything could change the game. AMD's K6 was a game-changer, the ANTIC was a game-changer, Colecovision was even a game-changer. The original XBOX controller was a game-changer... Right? The environment's changed a good bit now, though... revolutionary and comeptitive design died out to mass producing 3-5 consoles seeing who can fit the most low-risk gimmicks into their products. -But even so, prices still don't generally increase because costs to manufacture come down after initial production as sub-component manufacturers figure out SOPs and come up with reliable logistics, which is then, in the spirit of capitalism, used against them by the mass producers to negotiate better prices with a lower margin for the manufacturer than they started with, and once this relationship's established, and there are more of these partnerships formed between companies, manufacturing processes start becoming more streamlined and less wasteful altogether, much of which can be carried over even when you're making something a little more dissimilar than similar, and I think that's a good part of the reason consoles are becoming indistinguishable from small-form computers.

... I think I've gotten off-topic.

Back to mining... -part of the issue, too, might just be that there are these self-identifying miners who don't want to give up the lifestyle, where maybe they have the knowledge to do something more complicated but would otherwise be limited to jobs they're uninterested in. Mining allows almost anyone with some computer-savvy to be their own boss, or at least be a kind of franchise owner. Maybe they think the issue's just that they need more energy-efficient hardware, or need to look into co-locating, perhaps even rent out a building near cheap hydro-power hundreds of miles out. --And this isn't that far-fetched, I think. When I was still insisting to myself that I wanted to mine, I was actually looking into old VFW, Elk, etc buildings where the members are all dying out and they're renting spaces of their often-quite-large premises at low rates so long as their activities aren't disrupted, and maybe I could negotiate a deal where I'd pay for electricity for the warmer 6 months, and they'd cover it in Winter (after all, I'd set up a couple box fans in the doorway dividing our parts of the building so they wouldn't need to turn on the heat to be comfortably warm, and keeping old people warm is always nice). -And I was looking into USB watchdogs, self-resetting circuit breakers, how I could use ZigBee to communicate to "slaves" without needing all the PCs directly connected to the Internet, and how I could configure CGRemote & CGWatcher to be able to have this productive lease contract hundreds of miles away without ever contributing any foot traffic so I could negotiate a better lease rate. Cheesy

TL;DR - Price was previously in a bubble and mining was good. Mining is bad, now, but increased cost-efficiency and energy-efficiency are still going to create strong pressure for difficulty to increase. Bitmain and the other manufacturers don't give half a shit about price because a) they sold that risk to miners (worst-case scenario, everyone takes a 6-month vacation with full pay from the massive stash of money they've accumulated), and b) people are still going to insist on being miners, and they have increased incentive to buy new, cost-efficient ASICs now that their margins are negative or at least more slim. It's well-known that anyone banking on BTC price increasing would be far better served by just buying BTC and not fucking around trying to generate it through digital wizardry, but miners gonna mine, and I'm not sure there's anything wrong with wanting to be a digital wizard, anyway (digital wizard is a large step up from "computer whiz," at least). All that said, this doesn't mean price doesn't impact difficulty, and it's obvious by the slow-down in increase - but mining isn't dead by any stretch of the imagination.
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January 10, 2015, 10:54:24 AM
 #14

Innovation.

50% off-topic but still a fascinating and insightful post!

The VFW* idea... simply genius! But I wouldn't want to be responsible for burning up a bunch of old veterans because I've overloaded faulty wiring. Just look around an old VFW. They're tinder boxes just waiting to burst into flames. And those old farts don't move fast especially when they've consumed gallons of Pabst. :



* No disrespect to our Veterans of Foreign Wars. My (deceased) father, my brother and my (deceased) sister are/were members of VFW and/or American Legion. So I've spent many an hour under their roofs.
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January 10, 2015, 11:02:25 AM
 #15

Innovation.

50% off-topic but still a fascinating and insightful post!

The VFW idea... simply genius! But I wouldn't want to be responsible for burning up a bunch of old veterans because I've overloaded faulty wiring. Just look around an old VFW. They're tinder boxes just waiting to burst into flames. And those old farts don't move fast especially when they've consumed gallons of Pabst. Shocked
Nearby is an all-brick Mason's lodge. They were looking to rent out the basement to a business which wouldn't contribute foot traffic or take up their valuable six parking spaces. Considering we're 20 miles from nowhere in a town of 800-900 people, I have no idea who they were expecting to move in.
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January 10, 2015, 11:04:41 AM
 #16

Innovation.

50% off-topic but still a fascinating and insightful post!

The VFW idea... simply genius! But I wouldn't want to be responsible for burning up a bunch of old veterans because I've overloaded faulty wiring. Just look around an old VFW. They're tinder boxes just waiting to burst into flames. And those old farts don't move fast especially when they've consumed gallons of Pabst. Shocked
Nearby is an all-brick Mason's lodge. They were looking to rent out the basement to a business which wouldn't contribute foot traffic or take up their valuable six parking spaces. Considering we're 20 miles from nowhere in a town of 800-900 people, I have no idea who they were expecting to move in.

Hehe, don't fuck with the Masons!

And of course it's brick. They're Masons! What else would it be made of?  Wink
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January 10, 2015, 10:09:15 PM
 #17

Btc price falling is because people are selling off their btc to cover costs / pay utility bills / purchase new equipment etc. Difficulty increasing is because there is more hardware being produced and mining now than ever before which is increasing in number by the day as hardware manufacturers mine with new equipment before its sold and shipped out. The hardware manufacturers are the only real winners in mining at the moment they can't go wrong.

Also very few people can afford to hold onto their btc.

Everyone forgets about the rich list http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 some pretty fuckin weird things going on there. Scroll down and check all the addresses with 10,000 to 50,000 coins with a last activity of september 6th. 50+ wallets! The top 100 accounts for 20% of total bitcoin supply and more than 50% (probably closer to 75-90%) of that belongs to one person.


One person with the initials MK more than likely :/

¯¯̿̿¯̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ '̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿̿

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