Bitcoin Exchange Market Rate Question

[viking02]

If i wanted to buy say $1000 worth of bitcoin, i read that i can do this by getting a coinbase acct, link it to my bank acct then buy 1k of it and pay 1 percent fee for $1000+$10+$0.15 transaction fee for $1010.15 total.  First off, these numbers are correct


I see people trading bank transfer or poker funds for btc.  I like to know, what is the market rate for this?


Thus if i have $1000 pokerstars, i normally would get between $950-$970 BoA online transfer from someone thus 0.95-0.97 since real money is worth more than poker money.


However what about bitcoins?  If i wanted $1000 worth of bitcoins, i could buy it myself on coinbase for $1010.15.  But if i want to trade $1000 boa online transfer to someone, what is the market rate of bitcoin i should be getting?  Thus $1000 boa transfer is equal to how much $ worth of bitcoin?  Shouldn't it always be higher though since real money thus boa money should be worth more than bitcoin?


The other thing is if u want to cashout $1000 bitcoins to your bank of america acct, if u do it yourself, isn't fees 1% thus $10+$0.15 transaction fee then you get $989.85 ACH transfer to your bank of america account if u want to sell it?  If thats the case if someone trades btc for someones boa, shouldn't the rate be equal?  Thus the buyer gets bitcoin faster and pays no 1% fee... and for the seller... he gets his boa transfer immediately and doesnt pay the 1 percent fee?


Also what would be the rate for pokerstars for btc?  I read ppl who have pokerstars want to get 4 or 5 percent for btc.  What does that mean?  Does it mean $1000 worth of pokerstars for $950 or $960 worth of BTC?   

[Bitcoins101]

If i wanted to buy say $1000 worth of bitcoin, i read that i can do this by getting a coinbase acct, link it to my bank acct then buy 1k of it and pay 1 percent fee for $1000+$10+$0.15 transaction fee for $1010.15 total.  First off, these numbers are correct


I see people trading bank transfer or poker funds for btc.  I like to know, what is the market rate for this?


Thus if i have $1000 pokerstars, i normally would get between $950-$970 BoA online transfer from someone thus 0.95-0.97 since real money is worth more than poker money.

No. A BoA transfer is not more valuable than bitcoin or Pokerstars. A transfer can be reversed and can even be from a compromised account. From a trustworthy person the value may not be very different, but you can buy a semi-clean transfer (which is essentially the same as accepting a transfer from an untrustworthy member) for about 70% of BTC value.

However what about bitcoins?  If i wanted $1000 worth of bitcoins, i could buy it myself on coinbase for $1010.15.  But if i want to trade $1000 boa online transfer to someone, what is the market rate of bitcoin i should be getting?  Thus $1000 boa transfer is equal to how much $ worth of bitcoin?  Shouldn't it always be higher though since real money thus boa money should be worth more than bitcoin?


The other thing is if u want to cashout $1000 bitcoins to your bank of america acct, if u do it yourself, isn't fees 1% thus $10+$0.15 transaction fee then you get $989.85 ACH transfer to your bank of america account if u want to sell it?  If thats the case if someone trades btc for someones boa, shouldn't the rate be equal?  Thus the buyer gets bitcoin faster and pays no 1% fee... and for the seller... he gets his boa transfer immediately and doesnt pay the 1 percent fee?


Also what would be the rate for pokerstars for btc?  I read ppl who have pokerstars want to get 4 or 5 percent for btc.  What does that mean?  Does it mean $1000 worth of pokerstars for $950 or $960 worth of BTC?  

Pokerstars is semi-irreversible and BTC is completely irreversible. Figure the rest out yourself.

Values

Cash and BTC have essentially the same value. It just depends on who wants to do the transaction more and where it's taking place.
Pokerstars is slightly less valuable than BTC.
A bank transfer is a lot less valuable than BTC.
A wire transfer can sometimes be only a little less valuable than BTC.
A cash deposit is slightly less valuable than BTC.
MoneyPaks are a lot less valuable than BTC. Other reload cards like Vanilla are still less valuable than BTC, but not to as great a degree as MoneyPak.
PayPal is way below value. Accepting PayPal from an untrustworthy member is essentially the same as buying a PayPal transfer from the darknet at $0.20 on the dollar.

[viking02]

Hi.  Well when i transfer pokerstars for boa online transfer, i do it with only reputable ppl vice versa.  The rate is around 95-97 cents if u check the poker forum.  Yes if its compromised their boa acct, yes its reversible.


Yes pokerstars is semi-reverisiable but its much tougher than other things like skrill/paypal etc.  Yes i know btc is irreverisible.


Im bit confused at the values you listed for a few reasons.  First off, if the person you are receiving a boa online transfer is very reputable, that is lot less valuable than btc.  How much percentage would you say?  Like 5 percent or so?


This is what confuses me then.  Say i want to buy $5000 worth of btc.  If i go through coinbase, i pay 1 percent and 0.15 fee for $5050.15 so $50.15 fee.  Now let say i want to sell these btc and lets just say hypothetically when i want to sell the $5000 worth of btc, the btc price is exactly the same though that will almost never happen. 


Let say i bought 10 bitcoins at $500 each for $5000 total plus $50.15 fee for $5050.15.  I know btc is worth $350 now but im going to use $500 as the base amount to make it more simple since it had hit that amount earlier this year.


So if i wanted to sell these btc to someone, if they give me a boa online bank transfer and this person is very reputable...... if i send him $5000 worth of btc which would be $500 btc and 10 of them... and the rate is 5 percent... then wouldn't i get $5250 from them and thus i profited 5250-5050.15= $199.85 on this transaction assuming the BTC price is exactly the same?    Because something doesn't seem right with this as wouldn't someone just buying it directly for a 1 percent fee through coinbase or buy it with cash from someone... then sell it for online transfer would profit on it assuming the market price stays the same or just goes down very little from the price they bought the bitcoin though?

[viking02]

Values

1.  Cash and BTC have essentially the same value. It just depends on who wants to do the transaction more and where it's taking place.
2.  Pokerstars is slightly less valuable than BTC.
3.  A bank transfer is a lot less valuable than BTC.
4.  A wire transfer can sometimes be only a little less valuable than BTC.
5.  A cash deposit is slightly less valuable than BTC.
6.  MoneyPaks are a lot less valuable than BTC. Other reload cards like Vanilla are still less valuable than BTC, but not to as great a degree as MoneyPak.
7.  PayPal is way below value. Accepting PayPal from an untrustworthy member is essentially the same as buying a PayPal transfer from the darknet at $0.20 on the dollar.



Do you have an approximate rate for each one?  I numbered those things you mentioned about.


1.  Same Value
2.  0.96
3.  0.92
4.  0.98
5.  0.96
6.  Moneypaks- .85   Vanilla- 0.90
7.  0.20


Would you say these numbers are about right?

[viking02]

can someone else chime in on this?

[Bitcoins101]

Most of that is fairly accurate, but it really depends on how it's sent, who is sending it, and most importantly of all, who wants to do the deal more. If you want to get a feel for what the bid/ask prices are on each of those, check LocalBitcoins and browse the bid/asks for the different payment methods. You can also get a pretty good idea of good trading practices by reading the details of the ads and what each seller requires in order for a buyer to make a purchase (e.g. cash deposit sellers require a picture of the receipt and wait until the banks close for the day to send the coins).

You're not going to find people on the cleernet buying/selling with PayPal at .2, though. If the sender is trustworthy and the recipient is the one who wants to do the deal, they'll get a good rate. You almost never see people deal with significant quantities with PayPal - it's usually just someone who needs to get rid of PayPal money or needs a few dollars for something, rather than a way to transact large amounts.

Stuff like bank transfers with someone trustworthy isn't dissimilar to a cash deposit in terms of rate, but there are significantly fewer people that I'd accept a transfer from vs. a cash deposit.

Reload cards mostly have increased rates because of how challenging it is to receive a lot of money with them. Fraud plays a part too (there are massive networks of thieves who buy/sell reload cards they've received from scam victims) with those, which is why it's a good idea to get someone you're transacting with to write a custom message on the receipt.

[viking02]

thanks for that information.


I did read cash deposits at the bank are reverisible though.. so thats not true?  There was a reddit about a guy that said the person who deposited cash into that person bank acct, later just went back to bank and told them they made wrong deposit to persno and had receipt then bank reversed it.  I read later the person who sold the btc eventually was able to get the money back somehow.  Are u familar with this story?  I beliv it was bank of ameirca


Yes bank transfers i meant with someone trustworthy.  So if thats the case, then the rate is pretty close to cash rate then.  However if ppl are selling it for boa online trnasfer, arent they always looking for like 5 percent vig?  Thus your 1000 boa online for 950 worth of btc?  Thus ppl who sell it always sell it through premium?


I checked localbitcoins webiste in my area and it always has ppl selling it higher than the current buying rate on coinbase.  But shouldnt that alway be the case?  Example btc is 350 and most sellers are selling it for 360+ at the very minimum.

[Bitcoins101]

thanks for that information.


I did read cash deposits at the bank are reverisible though.. so thats not true?  There was a reddit about a guy that said the person who deposited cash into that person bank acct, later just went back to bank and told them they made wrong deposit to persno and had receipt then bank reversed it.  I read later the person who sold the btc eventually was able to get the money back somehow.  Are u familar with this story?  I beliv it was bank of ameirca


Yes bank transfers i meant with someone trustworthy.  So if thats the case, then the rate is pretty close to cash rate then.  However if ppl are selling it for boa online trnasfer, arent they always looking for like 5 percent vig?  Thus your 1000 boa online for 950 worth of btc?  Thus ppl who sell it always sell it through premium?


I checked localbitcoins webiste in my area and it always has ppl selling it higher than the current buying rate on coinbase.  But shouldnt that alway be the case?  Example btc is 350 and most sellers are selling it for 360+ at the very minimum.

Cash deposits are reversible, though more challenging to reverse than most payment methods. It's a good idea to wait until the bank closes for the day before completing the BTC transfer.

Most people trading like this for a profit are buying below market and selling above market or else they wouldn't be making money.

[GÜNther.Danish]

what is pokerstars? a casino?

[viking02]

thanks for that information.


I did read cash deposits at the bank are reverisible though.. so thats not true?  There was a reddit about a guy that said the person who deposited cash into that person bank acct, later just went back to bank and told them they made wrong deposit to persno and had receipt then bank reversed it.  I read later the person who sold the btc eventually was able to get the money back somehow.  Are u familar with this story?  I beliv it was bank of ameirca


Yes bank transfers i meant with someone trustworthy.  So if thats the case, then the rate is pretty close to cash rate then.  However if ppl are selling it for boa online trnasfer, arent they always looking for like 5 percent vig?  Thus your 1000 boa online for 950 worth of btc?  Thus ppl who sell it always sell it through premium?


I checked localbitcoins webiste in my area and it always has ppl selling it higher than the current buying rate on coinbase.  But shouldnt that alway be the case?  Example btc is 350 and most sellers are selling it for 360+ at the very minimum.

Cash deposits are reversible, though more challenging to reverse than most payment methods. It's a good idea to wait until the bank closes for the day before completing the BTC transfer.

Most people trading like this for a profit are buying below market and selling above market or else they wouldn't be making money.

This is what i heard as well.  Someone posted story on reddit that a guy deposited cash into someones boa account but later that day went to bank to reverse it because they said they sent cash to wrong account.  I think the other person was able to get back the cash though.  So basically for someone to accept cash from stranger, make sure the strange does the transaction right when the bank closes?  Im thinking you have them deposit the cash... then once its 5pm or whenever the bank closes... then you check your boa account to see if the cash is still there... then once it is... then you send them the bitcoin?  Thus if they try to cancel the cash deposit or reverse it before bank closes, then you will see it being reversed in your online banking in bank of america?  Is that what you mean?  Thus the other person can deposit cash anytime during the day, just make sure you send the btc say at 7pm or so?  Im curious what shows in the cash deposit online if someone were to reverse/cancel it.  Also when someone deposit it, would it show in the boa as processing or processed?  Then by 7pm assuming the person depositing cash is legit, then it would show processed and it can't be reversed?


Can you explain buying way below market or selling above in this example?  Im curious who is then selling so much below market and buying so much above market then if they could just buy/sell using coinbase which is 1 percent plus 15 cent fee only?

[Gebbit]

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[Nrcewker]

away from pokerstars

[viking02]

Okay would like if someone can answer this question for me on trading.  Say i have pokerstars and want bitcoin.  Let say they are charging a 3 percent vig.  So that means if i trade $1000 pokerstar to them... they send me back $970 of bitcoin in return?  Im confused but when and how do they lock in the price?  Example if current bitcoin price is $220... then once both users agree, then the price is locked at around $220?  What site do u use?  Is it buy or selling rate?  So basically that person will send $970 worth of btc at current btc price of 220 so they will send 4.40909 bitcoin?  I assume they just saend 4.4 or 4.41 and rarely use more than 2 decimal points right?  Also so the price is locked and then its X amount of bitcoin?  Or usually the bitcoin buyer or selling want an even amt of btc such as 5 or 5.5 btc etc? 



So in another example of bank of america online transfer for bitcoin.  The other person wants 4 percent.  So that means I would have to give $1000 boa for their $960 in bitcoin? 



So when we agree... then we lock in the current btc rate then he tell me the exact amt of btc such as 4.36 btc then thats all?  So when i receive that btc, the amount should be around $960 right since sending btc from a user to another user is instant?  Do you know how long that takes usually? 



Really like to know how to trade bitcoin for other things when using a vig.

[viking02]

Any other thoughts on the rates?

[viking02]

If i'm selling bitcoin to someone who would offer me a boa online transfer, not wire... how much percent vig should i be getting?  are there any reputable members here that trade their boa online transfer for bitcoin and are reputable?  If so, can someone tell me who they are?