[F2Pool and SegWit] What do we think of the "Wang"

[Pursuer]

So here is the summary, or story of the Wang if you want to call it that!
(I'll try to make this as accurate as possible by checking dates but I may have missed some stuff).

Litecoin price starts going up (30 March) then after the initial pump and when it slows down F2Pool (one of the biggest mining pools on both bitcoin and litecoin) starts signaling SegWit.
Wang Chun tweets are all positive for SegWit.

Syscoin SegWit activation was a big success:
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/848640437019488256

litecoin pump reaches its max limit (5 Apr)

Wang starts tweeting about changing his mind and SegWit being a bad idea.

Concern about Litecoin core code becoming different from bitcoin:
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/850059564250578944

Trolling about stopping signaling of SegWit at 74.9%
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/850070006830292992

"F2Pool: "I’ve to reconsider segwit on LTC. It makes copy code from BTC harder if LTC to activate it but BTC does else. No good news to LTC’s devel."
deleted tweet: https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/850053367988592642
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/63v0h6/ltc_f2pool_owner_ive_to_reconsider_segwit_on_ltc/

price of litecoin drops (6-9 Apr) down -35%

I was never against SegWit on Litecoin (12 Apr)
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/852327050048401409

litecoin price goes up the same day 28%
now the same story on bitcoin

SegWit is a disaster on bitcoin! (12 Apr)
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/852389706956365824

DDoS attack and then saying we are signaling SegWit because of it! (13 Apr)
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/852480476744896516
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/852507239529066498

Since users want SegWit we will activate it on both BTC and LTC! (15 Apr - 7 hours ago)
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/853047376608600065
(does anyone have anymore info on this poll he is talking about and who and how many voted on it).


and finally the last 3 blocks mined by F2Pool are signaling SegWit:
https://coin.dance/blocks
461954, 461949, 461935

[franky1]

the price movements are a meaningless measure of community desire.
the prices can move easily without having to spend much at all

at the moment the liquidity is soo low even just one person can control the markets movements

core cry when the price moves up and down and try making it sound important
meanwhile exchange move from $935 ⇘ $933 by a user with just $302(324mbtc)
meanwhile exchange move from $933 ⇗ $935 by a user with just $50(54mbtc)

(note trades measured in mBTC (0.001btc)

less than $302(324mbtc) to drop the price from $935 to $933⇘
yep $302 to make the market cap change by $32,470,200.00

then ~$50(54mbtc) to ramp the price from $933 to $935⇗
yep $50 to make the market cap change by 32,470,200.00

price movements are not a sign of any "community consensus" due low funds being used and also the high increments per orderline causing the volatility($1 gap per increment)... making it easy to make the market volatile without needing large community/whales

real funny part is if you look at the markets.. they are being moved by $1 increments. using only a couple btc or less



Gdax
going from the bottom up
0.13btc moved price from $1158->$1159
5.293btc moved price from $1159->$1160
2.386btc moved price from $1160->$1159
63.857btc moved price from $1159->$1160
10.325btc moved price from $1160->$1161
0.02btc moved price from $1161->$1160
2.433btc moved price from $1160->$1161
2btc moved price from $1161->$1160
2.551btc moved price from $1160->$1159
16.67btc moved price from $1159->$1160
1.4btc moved price from $1160->$1159

the real reason the price is volitile is because it does not take much to move the market price

5.85 btc = $1


bitfinex
5.85 btc =  $1⇑
0.5 btc =  $1⇑
0.067 btc =  $1⇓
0.1 btc =  $1⇑
0.829 btc =  $1⇓
0.249 btc =  $1⇑
0.170 btc =  $1⇓

and so on

[Iranus]

the price movements are a meaningless measure of community desire.
the prices can move easily without having to spend much at all

at the moment the liquidity is soo low even just one person can control the markets movements

core cry when the price moves up and down and try making it sound important
meanwhile exchange move from $935 ⇘ $933 by a user with just $302(324mbtc)
meanwhile exchange move from $933 ⇗ $935 by a user with just $50(54mbtc)

(note trades measured in mBTC (0.001btc)

less than $302(324mbtc) to drop the price from $935 to $933⇘
yep $302 to make the market cap change by $32,470,200.00

then ~$50(54mbtc) to ramp the price from $933 to $935⇗
yep $50 to make the market cap change by 32,470,200.00

price movements are not a sign of any "community consensus" due low funds being used and also the high increments per orderline causing the volatility($1 gap per increment)... making it easy to make the market volatile without needing large community/whales

real funny part is if you look at the markets.. they are being moved by $1 increments. using only a couple btc or less



Gdax
going from the bottom up
0.13btc moved price from $1158->$1159
5.293btc moved price from $1159->$1160
2.386btc moved price from $1160->$1159
63.857btc moved price from $1159->$1160
10.325btc moved price from $1160->$1161
0.02btc moved price from $1161->$1160
2.433btc moved price from $1160->$1161
2btc moved price from $1161->$1160
2.551btc moved price from $1160->$1159
16.67btc moved price from $1159->$1160
1.4btc moved price from $1160->$1159

the real reason the price is volitile is because it does not take much to move the market price

5.85 btc = $1


bitfinex
5.85 btc =  $1⇑
0.5 btc =  $1⇑
0.067 btc =  $1⇓
0.1 btc =  $1⇑
0.829 btc =  $1⇓
0.249 btc =  $1⇑
0.170 btc =  $1⇓

and so on

The liquidity of an exchange might be pretty low but because of arbitrage the prices can't drift too far apart so the price on all the exchanges are linked (within reason).  So overall the tiny price fluctuations on each exchange don't matter that much unless you're a day trader, in which case it's good for you.

F2Pool are very confusing.  I don't think they'll keep actually signalling SegWit and following the users' opinions, I think they might be messing with everyone like they have been for weeks.  We'll see if they keep going though.

[manselr]

Price moves positiively with positive segwit news, doesn't take rocket science to know this. But anyhow, we can't and we must not trust Wang Chun, he changes his opinion on segwit a lot, at any moment he can stop segwit support! I hope this doesn't happen, because price will go down.

[franky1]

Price moves positiively with positive segwit news, doesn't take rocket science to know this. But anyhow, we can't and we must not trust Wang Chun, he changes his opinion on segwit a lot, at any moment he can stop segwit support! I hope this doesn't happen, because price will go down.

the price will go up and down no matter what

[Quickseller]

I am sure that he has been under a lot of pressure to take a position on the scaling debate, and from what I can tell, he does not like either (SegWit/Bitcoin Unlimited) option. I suspect that both sides were attempting to get him to take their respective sides.

I feel bad for him because of all the pressure he has been under.

From what I can tell, he was coerced into signaling for SegWit.

[Pursuer]

Price moves positiively with positive segwit news, doesn't take rocket science to know this. But anyhow, we can't and we must not trust Wang Chun, he changes his opinion on segwit a lot, at any moment he can stop segwit support! I hope this doesn't happen, because price will go down.

the price will go up and down no matter what

price is being affected by the news. we saw the effect in litecoin (which is a smaller scale market than bitcoin) and we have been seeing it in bitcoin with other news.
so it does matter what

I am sure that he has been under a lot of pressure to take a position on the scaling debate, and from what I can tell, he does not like either (SegWit/Bitcoin Unlimited) option. I suspect that both sides were attempting to get him to take their respective sides.

I feel bad for him because of all the pressure he has been under.

From what I can tell, he was coerced into signaling for SegWit.

this sounds plausible specially since F2Pool blocks are still containing the "EXT.." (extension block) flag in them (signaling what they want which is neither of these). but I don't like this saying that I keep hearing here and there that they started signaling because they were under DDoS attack, if that is true, then it is so bad.

I still haven't gotten any answers to this question:

Since users want SegWit we will activate it on both BTC and LTC! (15 Apr - 7 hours ago)
https://twitter.com/f2pool_wangchun/status/853047376608600065
(does anyone have anymore info on this poll he is talking about and who and how many voted on it).

[Carlton Banks]

F2Pool are very confusing.  I don't think they'll keep actually signalling SegWit and following the users' opinions, I think they might be messing with everyone like they have been for weeks.  We'll see if they keep going though.

Whether Wang's tweets are moving the market price or not is not easy to tell, and of course, it's having very little effect even if it could be proved.

But I think Wang is possibly trying to move the market price, it makes more sense than the coercion argument (if he's being coerced, one side would strong-arm the other to stop Wang switching sides so often, it doesn't add up that he's being threatened by either side). Yet another reason why decentralisation of mining is so important now the mining market is so consolidated (aka cartelised).

It's good to see Bitfury are finally selling chips to external equipment manufacturers, but I still believe a change to a CPU or GPU specific proof of work algorithm is the real answer in the medium term. Long term, 3D printing of simple ASIC hashers will be the most viable route to decentralised mining (ASIC chips are close to the memory class of silicon chips when it comes to simplicity of the chip die, so it's possible that cryptocurrency mining might even drive the incentives for development in the 3D chip printing field to some extent)

[Quickseller]

I think it can be reasonably concluded that they started signaling for SegWit as a result of the DDoS attack they suffered - I believe this can be reasonably concluded by looking at his Twitter feed and using good judgment.

I personally believe the poll he cited was just a (poor) attempt of covering up the fact that he was being extorted into signaling for SegWit. Although, in theory, it is possible that he polled many of the very large miners who are mining on his pool privately -- I doubt it though.

[Raxitto]

To be more specific, the technical requirements give some room for maneuver when it comes to the activation of SegWit. BIP 9 allocations are required. It is still possible that something better than SegWit appears before November 15, after all you never know what the future holds. It is important to note that the date is not a timeout, but rather the date of assignment.

[franky1]

funy part is
when people start using the segwit on altcoin price arguments

what i have seen this month..

when vert is up litecoin is down
when vert is down litecoin is up

so when litecoin moves up segwit fanboys look for any positive blockstream segwit news they can... if they find it they mention its up bcause of segwit. if they cant find any. they dont mention litecoin. but then talk about vertcoins drop and then find negative news from non-blockstream and blame verts drop on non-blockstream.

same goes the other way
so when vertcoin moves up segwit fanboys look for any positive blockstream segwit news they can... if they find it they mention its up because of segwit. if they cant find any. they dont mention vertcoin. but then talk about litecoins drop and then find negative news from non-blockstream and blame lites drop on non-blockstream.

creating their own narrative.

but overall.. the price moves de to nature of trading and low liquidity.
in short it just goes up and down for multiple reasons and doesnt take much to cause a change. anyone can spin any narrative for any coin

trying to use the market price as a indicator is an empty argument.
market price is just temporary drama