When do goldbugs give up?

[cellard]

Please stop denying gold isn't any less manipulated than Bitcoin

Gold is naturally distributed over millions of years.   How could it be manipulated in its source when its a purely natural element.    Do the figures reported year by year get a human bias of course but the major point to gold is that its not really under the control of anyone.

Bitcoin has a hard time arguing with that as its obviously evolved out of direct human engineering.  However its maturing and has come a long way and is the most distributed of all the crypto currencies as I understand it.   I'd still think gold is far more a natural market then Bitcoin.

Obviously I mean the actual presentation and clearance of the resource in both cases.   No point arguing about virtual certificates for Gold or BTC.    The market price for gold does not match up, I agree with that.  China is the worlds largest producer, it does not export gold and it does not report properly so we dont have a price available in FIAT thats accurate for gold probably ditto USD is a mess.
  Until gold is in every day exchange for goods into billions as a currency I think its mostly estimated.    Obviously BTC price is largely decided by speculation more then trade.   The actual gold resource itself in the ground is fairly evenly distributed though

"The actual gold resource itself in the ground is fairly evenly distributed though"

How do you know this? do you have any data on the "initial gold distribution" before the gold rush craze began? I wonder how a map like that would look like before and after.

I seriously doubt it happened to be evenly distributed. Even if it was, you still needed the tools to mine it. So the guy that already had power also known as resources, would have trucks, big drills and so on, so he would quickly establish a monopoly on the local goldmines. The guy that didn't have nothing but their hands and perhaps a hammer and a shovel tops couldn't compete.

Of course you can't argue that gold's "settings" are more natural than bitcoin (someone had to manually input the initial settings of bitcoin after all), but at the end of the day you have to be pragmatic, and bitcoin seems way more useful than gold for reasons already explained in previous posts.

Bitcoin is also the only coin that grew organically, without get rich quick expectations of altcoins.

[Traxo]

Tinfoil hat, aliasing error, delusional nonsense.

My point was that there are way too many coincidences out there when it comes to futures and charts beginning a decline from all time highs.

There you go with that aliasing error. You imagine your shadow is yourself. Your stuck clock is correct twice a day and you imagine that it is correct all day.

Simple correlation as I already told you. That was the start of the strong dollar-short vortex and the peak of China's resource consumption. So all the commodity markets have been hit hard. Which exemplifies gold is more like a commodity now and less like a monetary reserve. The international capital (follows each other like ducks) moved on to the next wave which was into U.S. dollar and U.S. stocks. Which have been rising ever since.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/stock-indicies/dow-jones/the-us-share-market-reality-exposed/

[Omega Weapon]

I was wondering, what does it take for a hardcore goldbug like Peter Schiff, or our very own r0ach, to admit that they fucked up big time holding gold instead of Bitcoin?

Currently gold is around 7 $trillion marketcap, I haven't paid attention to gold to get the exact value but last year it was around that. Bitcoin is around 100 $billion as of today.

At what point will some traditional goldbugs publicly accept that they should have at least, diversified some of their gold into Bitcoin? I have added a poll with 5 options, the most conservative one is when BTC reaches 1 $trillion, because I don't expect any of them to admit they were wrong any time sooner than that.

The poll never expires.

I do not see why they would need to admit they are wrong, it is going to be impossible for gold to be as profitable as bitcoin, that is true, since the market cap of bitcoin is way lower, but I think gold is also going to be extremely profitable once the economic system becomes a lot more unstable and crashes, so even if they do not get the same profits as us, gold will be in my opinion a great investment in the next decades as well.

[realr0ach]

Please stop denying gold isn't any less manipulated than Bitcoin

Every market in the world is manipulated by the ESF in order to try and prop up the dollar + bond market + stocks.  The only real disparity here is that bitcoin has obviously been intentionally propped up by the fraudulent exchange Bitfinex, their tethers, and other scams, while silver and gold are suppressed 24 hours a day by entities like the Comex.  Anonymint can lie all he wants, but he knows it's a lie when he tries to pretend shitcoins are not an artificially propped up bubble, and metals are an inverse bubble.  The first step of trading 101 is do not buy an artifically propped up bubble.

Same thing with other shitcoins on the micro-scale.  Goldman Sachs bought most of the Ethereum premine, sent their illiquid asset to Poloniex, then leveraged it higher.  It was a toxic waste, illiquid asset when the price was low.  Now it's a higher price pile of toxic waste.  The same thing has been done with bitcoin using ScamFinex to artificially rig the price upwards.  

In the GATA archives for metals, it was admitted by the govt that they try to introduce volatility into the metals market using the ESF in order to make them look like a less stable store of value so they can pretend the dollar is somehow more stable.  The ESF itself might even be running the bitcoin pump and dumps doing the same thing here.  Create bubbles then catastrophic collapses over and over ad infinity...in everything...then you pretend the dollar is stable.  Meanwhile, they literally hand out a blueprint of when and where the pump and dumps will occur to a select few oligarchs to make sure they can continuously stay in power and never lose a bet.

[R9s]

I voted for more than $7 trillion in market capitalization (higher than the market value of any gold) because I think the price of gold coins has reached its limit!

[Traxo]

Anonymint can lie all he wants, but he knows it's a lie when he tries to pretend shitcoins are not an artificially propped up bubble, and metals are an inverse bubble.  The first step of trading 101 is do not buy an artifically propped up bubble.

He agrees with you that you will be correct at least after a possible new ATH in 2019, and Bitcoin will probably not bottom until 2021. But long-term he thinks you are confusing adoption and a speculative bubble. Bitcoin has both.


Also he thought you might appreciate this about the Zionists (not all Jews):

https://steemit.com/politics/@anonymint/succinct-absolute-truth-about-9-11-and-las-vegas-massacre

[STT]

I voted for more than $7 trillion in market capitalization (higher than the market value of any gold) because I think the price of gold coins has reached its limit!

If we're measuring in US dollars then there is no upper limit as there is 20 trillion of debt to unwind at the same time as a trade deficit and fiscal deficit.   Thats going to mean alot of new dollars arriving on the streets over the following decades.  At best it will be spread out but they cant not repay that debt, without a surplus its evitable the price of everything rises considerably.

I doubt BTC or gold rises alone, other prices will also rise but the point to either is they also become viable replacements for the business done in trade while holding that value.   Hence the rise is greater then just purely inverse to dollar decline

"The actual gold resource itself in the ground is fairly evenly distributed though"

How do you know this? do you have any data on the "initial gold distribution" before the gold rush craze began? I wonder how a map like that would look like before and after.

The gold rush will have disturbed gold on the surface mainly but overall I think surveys on the geological nature and distribution to gold across the globe have been done.   If I see a source I will post it.  

South Africa accounts for almost 90% of global platinum reserves.

SA is linked to platinum in having a large enough resource that it would not be feasible to have this metal as a monetary base globally.   I'm not sure why one precious metal has a concentration in one country and the other is found in almost every country.    I think its linked to volcanic flow and tectonic plates but I havent read anything on this recently and definitely not an expert but afaik its not in dispute generally.

We need a geologist on this thread just like a developer in crypto protocols might have better insight to future dynamics

https://mobile.apanews.net/index.php/en/news/safrica-russia-seek-ways-to-preserve-platinum-value



https://www.statista.com/statistics/273624/platinum-metal-reserves-by-country/

[cellard]

Please stop denying gold isn't any less manipulated than Bitcoin

Every market in the world is manipulated by the ESF in order to try and prop up the dollar + bond market + stocks.  The only real disparity here is that bitcoin has obviously been intentionally propped up by the fraudulent exchange Bitfinex, their tethers, and other scams, while silver and gold are suppressed 24 hours a day by entities like the Comex.  Anonymint can lie all he wants, but he knows it's a lie when he tries to pretend shitcoins are not an artificially propped up bubble, and metals are an inverse bubble.  The first step of trading 101 is do not buy an artifically propped up bubble.

Same thing with other shitcoins on the micro-scale.  Goldman Sachs bought most of the Ethereum premine, sent their illiquid asset to Poloniex, then leveraged it higher.  It was a toxic waste, illiquid asset when the price was low.  Now it's a higher price pile of toxic waste.  The same thing has been done with bitcoin using ScamFinex to artificially rig the price upwards.  

In the GATA archives for metals, it was admitted by the govt that they try to introduce volatility into the metals market using the ESF in order to make them look like a less stable store of value so they can pretend the dollar is somehow more stable.  The ESF itself might even be running the bitcoin pump and dumps doing the same thing here.  Create bubbles then catastrophic collapses over and over ad infinity...in everything...then you pretend the dollar is stable.  Meanwhile, they literally hand out a blueprint of when and where the pump and dumps will occur to a select few oligarchs to make sure they can continuously stay in power and never lose a bet.

It depends on what you believe the outcome of the USD will be. Do you think they can keep doing this forever, and keep the USD alive and strong in zombie mode? will people keep accepting USD no matter what thus making it a useful tool to demoralize potential buyers of hard money? (bitcoin or gold)

If yes, then both bitcoin and gold are fucked, because no matter what their properties are, they can keep manipulating the price forever.

If no, then both bitcoin and gold will win, because they are hard money, and hard money always win in the long term. What is being discussed here at least by me is the fact that bitcoin is a lot more convenient than cumbersome gold. You can't basically move anywhere with your gold, for this reason alone, bitcoin wins.