Money Laundering

[tabnloz]

It is one of the big red flags used against Bitcoin in the PR war, but I don't see it as being this seamless conduit for dirty money.

Most money that flows to exchanges comes via a bank transfer. If the money is in the bank, it's already in the system.

Likewise money flows from sale of bitcoins into bank accounts and is therefore on the radar.

Add to that the eternal nature of the blockchain and any progress in de-anonymizing software and Bitcoin doesn't seem to be any better than other methods.

I understand services like local bitcoins can be used but that is generally a time inefficient way to launder.

There is also the darkweb / silkroad style, but there are plenty of trust issues to deal with there if you are looking to clean large amounts.

[keithers]

It is one of the big red flags used against Bitcoin in the PR war, but I don't see it as being this seamless conduit for dirty money.

Most money that flows to exchanges comes via a bank transfer. If the money is in the bank, it's already in the system.

Likewise money flows from sale of bitcoins into bank accounts and is therefore on the radar.

Add to that the eternal nature of the blockchain and any progress in de-anonymizing software and Bitcoin doesn't seem to be any better than other methods.

I understand services like local bitcoins can be used but that is generally a time inefficient way to launder.

There is also the darkweb / silkroad style, but there are plenty of trust issues to deal with there if you are looking to clean large amounts.

Yes, but one could still deposit a bunch of dirty money into a bank in another country and then send bitcoins to the person who was trying to launder the money.   That person could then just sell of the bitcoins and take "clean" money.  Money is going to be laundered regardless, and bitcoin is such a small percentage of money right now, they are making a much bigger deal than they need to about it though...

[acoindr]

Please see my post here on money laundering hypocrisy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=449534.msg4965176#msg4965176

It's all you need to know.

Lawsky seems most emphatic and concerned about money laundering, but that's pure hypocrisy. From Bloomberg Jul 23, 2012:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-16/hsbc-aided-money-laundering-by-iran-drug-cartels-probe-shows.html

[keithers]

Please see my post here on money laundering hypocrisy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=449534.msg4965176#msg4965176

It's all you need to know.

Lawsky seems most emphatic and concerned about money laundering, but that's pure hypocrisy. From Bloomberg Jul 23, 2012:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-16/hsbc-aided-money-laundering-by-iran-drug-cartels-probe-shows.html

I don't think Lawksy personally cares about laundering, he looked to be speaking on behalf of people that were above his paygrade

[RichG]

It is one of the big red flags used against Bitcoin in the PR war, but I don't see it as being this seamless conduit for dirty money.

Most money that flows to exchanges comes via a bank transfer. If the money is in the bank, it's already in the system.

Likewise money flows from sale of bitcoins into bank accounts and is therefore on the radar.

Add to that the eternal nature of the blockchain and any progress in de-anonymizing software and Bitcoin doesn't seem to be any better than other methods.

I understand services like local bitcoins can be used but that is generally a time inefficient way to launder.

There is also the darkweb / silkroad style, but there are plenty of trust issues to deal with there if you are looking to clean large amounts.

We have a choice. A choice between freedom or security. We need to make that choice. Now.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[leopard2]

ML is bad

Also bad is that the world is slowly moving towards a state, where freely disposing over one's own hard earned money, is being denounced as ML

Not to mention that most ML exists only, because the government outlaws free exchange of certain goods for money.

[cbeast]

I never know whether to use hot or cold water, but what I learnt the hard way is not to use too much bleach.  

[tabnloz]

Please see my post here on money laundering hypocrisy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=449534.msg4965176#msg4965176

It's all you need to know.

Lawsky seems most emphatic and concerned about money laundering, but that's pure hypocrisy. From Bloomberg Jul 23, 2012:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-16/hsbc-aided-money-laundering-by-iran-drug-cartels-probe-shows.html

Yep, I'm well aware of the HSBC / Sinaloa Cartel / Hezbollah laundering. Add Wachovia's, JPM's multi billion dollar fines and Barclays and RBS and the picture is pretty clear. They operate on a separate playing field.

My point is though, that tagging bitcoin as a way to launder money is just scaremongering. It actually has characteristics that make it harder to clean dirty cash, although it is fair to say I am not fully up to speed with how SR style sites get $ in and out. Just regular disinformation, I suppose.

[tabnloz]

Please see my post here on money laundering hypocrisy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=449534.msg4965176#msg4965176

It's all you need to know.

Lawsky seems most emphatic and concerned about money laundering, but that's pure hypocrisy. From Bloomberg Jul 23, 2012:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-16/hsbc-aided-money-laundering-by-iran-drug-cartels-probe-shows.html

I don't think Lawksy personally cares about laundering, he looked to be speaking on behalf of people that were above his paygrade

I think he'll be fielding a few questions about it during his AMA.

[xinzark]

Drug , weapon , killing + money laudering are the thing that holding btc .

[TheButterZone]

Find all uses for money whatsoever illegal, and you'll find everyone "money launderers". Selective perrosecution does not mean everyone isn't a "criminal" in the eyes of the "law".

[DanielVG]

Drug , weapon , killing + money laudering are the thing that holding btc .

Like nobody has been killed for dollars in the past...
Or to buy drugs & weapons.

The big guys aren't into BTC yet :http://imgur.com/a/DYU2e

[franky1]

put simply the OP is trying to say

if you take $10,000 from your bank to put into your bitcoin exchange, shouldnt it be the banks job to see the $10,000 movement and them do the AML stuff, instead of exchanges.

but the point is that both the sender AND recipient are supposed to do all the checks, that way if something was dodgy the chain of transactions could be followed, rather then the last knowledge of the transaction being only the bank.

i am all for having FIAT fully tracked. but when it comes to bitcoin withdrawals and bitcoin spending.. that is not part of government juristiction.

FIAT is the trademark of the country of use, so we have to accept FIAT being tracked. but bitcoin does not beleong to banks or government so they should not get involved with the bitcoin side

[zeetubes]

if you take $10,000 from your bank to put into your bitcoin exchange, shouldnt it be the banks job to see the $10,000 movement and them do the AML stuff, instead of exchanges.
...

Yup. Notice how the $10k threshold for banks reporting a financial transaction hasn't been "adjusted for inflation" since it was implemented. $10,000 in 1970 would probably translate into $100k now. It's just yet another sneaky way of increasing capital controls.

As to money laundering, it's a total crock of shit. People buy drugs. So what? Personally I don't do them but with the world headng towards 50% unemployment, what the hell else are people going to do with their lives? Make them legal and end of problem. Weapons for terrorists? Given that the US gov is the biggest terrorist origanization in the world and by far the biggest seller of weapons to other terrorist organizations around the world, this is definitely holier than thou BS.

That prick Lawsky said something along the lines of "better 1000 legitimate businesses fail than one money launderer goes free." Right...

[00ph8al]

It's all a smokescreen.  People buy more drugs with USD cash than anything else.  Just look at the pictures above.  Take care of your own house before you come up in mine.

They will argue this, but the only constitutional right the IRS has is to the trade of the USD.  It is ridiculous for them to think they can regulate trade and tax between two private parties who don't want or need their regulation. 

Regulations have to be equally enforceable.  The two parties in the transaction have no motive to take the private transaction public for it to be taxed.  We could publicly settle on a $10 BTC/USD exchange rate.  With the wild fluctuations of crypto there isn't even a way to set a fair market value for them to compare. 

What if American A sells American B yuan for BTC on the steps of the White House?  Does the IRS really have a legal right to tax that exchange?

If I want a safe, stable and expensive transaction I'll use USD.  Anything else, I can use what medium of exchange I want.  And pay the taxes and transfer fees that it requires.

If the IRS wants in this game, they should get their own damn crypto:
100% public blockchain. Everyone's SSN is their only public key.
50% premine (I was going to go with 100% but we all know how they like to keep printing)
5% inflation a year
10% flat transaction tax
Backed by USD  (lol)

The only thing they would have going for them is if they could keep the price stability more even.

[Elwar]

People are guilty until proven innocent just for moving their money around.

When moving money you have to prove that it came from a clean source and is going to a clean source. That is bullshit.

[dddbtc]

I never know whether to use hot or cold water, but what I learnt the hard way is not to use too much bleach.  

OH U 

[bananas]

Bitcoin does not even have enough volume for money laundering, i doubt any is going on at least in a significant level.
But fact is, Bitcoins are used in drug and other tradings of illicit products or services and only in such illegal markets it has significant volume of transactions.