Poll on UK Wealth Tax

[EvilPanda]

Jokes aside, this is an incredibly pervasive set of misconceptions. The majority of welfare spending goes to pensioners, and the majority of other benefits go to people who are in work, on low pay. The majority of unemployment benefits go to the short-term (temporary) unemployed, leaving a small proportion for the long-term unemployed - an unknown proportion of whom presumably are fat and lazy.

I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity - all children should have equal opportunity to be successful, no matter who their parents were. If you had it all served on a silver platter then yes, you have a duty to make it easier for those who didn't.

What about young women who live of their children's benefits? It's a really profitable business just look at some Arab families.
Gypsies already found a way to profit, they never work but always manage somehow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V78QfxvTbo
Let's not forget about medical care for all those child molesters, drunkards and junkies, they are sick and it's the country's duty to help them, right? What about all the murderers and rapists? They consume a large portion of the budget, but we have to keep them well fed and healthy for the next 20 years. The government only looks for new ways to pay for their own mistakes, something to keep them afloat for a few more years.

[practicaldreamer]

 A one-off wealth tax would be a bad idea for many reasons

Don't tax wealth - don't tax income - tax consumption.

I initially started thinking about this after I was trying to work out how to succesfully raise tax in a BTC economy (an anonymous BTC - and I do see the benefit/necessity (fungibility etc) of BTC transactions being anonymous).

[practicaldreamer]

I'm not sure how it works over there, but here in 'Murica, the more you raise taxes on the rich, the quicker they start moving to Mexico

Our lot move to 'Murica   (FWIW I would never let the tax exiles back into the country)

A great example of why I'll never understand the lefties.

This guy had it all served on a silver platter, it can't be like that! He has to share! It's our job to force equality!

Silver platters disincentivise hard work and entrepeneurship - silver platters pull against evolutionary benefit and strike at the heart of all that we ultimately deem moral and of value - check out the stats on social mobility , then get back to us  

... and we have a paradox where the more hardworking and efficient you are, the more taxes you have to pay...

The idea that all you have to do to get rich is be "hardworking" is ridiculous.

    My grandfather died in 1989 having spent his entire working life at the coal mine. He was such a hard worker his nickname was "the Iron Man" (nothing to do with Stalin BTW). He was an intelligent man who could discuss with you articulately any subject you wished to raise - and this when the dissemination of information via the internet was but a dream.
     In his will he left £1k for each of his children (he had 5) and £100 for each of his grandchildren (he had 8 ) - he lived in council accomodation so had no property to call his own.

    Whats £5800 in todays money ?
      

[TheButterZone]

It would be a good idea if the government took it and then ceased to exist.

[Spendulus]

Higher taxation to rich doesn't hurt them or stop them from making money.

Still one of wealth tax might be massively problematic to implement. How do you value wealth? Stocks? If people taxed don't have cash on hand they are forced to sell some and if this is wide practise it will affect the markets...

All in all it's structural issue and there is no simple easy solutions in long term...

This idea of a 'one time tax' has been being floated by monetary authorities for a few years as a way to solve the debt problem - it's not just Britain.   And that it's a dumb idea doesn't mean they won't do it.  They've said they'd do things like the Cyprus haircut again, and they will.

It's not about what's good for you, but what's good for them.  You are just tax-cattle.

And every single time the rhetoric about "sock it to the filty rich" starts up, the ones that get slaughtered are the middle class, because that's where the bulk of the takables is.

....

    My grandfather died in 1989 having spent his entire working life at the coal mine. He was such a hard worker his nickname was "the Iron Man" (nothing to do with Stalin BTW). He was an intelligent man who could discuss with you articulately any subject you wished to raise - and this when the dissemination of information via the internet was but a dream.
     In his will he left £1k for each of his children (he had 5) and £100 for each of his grandchildren (he had 8 ) - he lived in council accomodation so had no property to call his own.

    Whats £5800 in todays money ?
     

5800 that was wasted, by the government not having scarfed it up.  In the eyes of those who want to take everything they can.

[Spendulus]

.....

I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity - all children should have equal opportunity to be successful, no matter who their parents were. If you had it all served on a silver platter then yes, you have a duty to make it easier for those who didn't.

Actually, this is false if it is correctly stated.  Let me restate it and I would be then interested in your take on it.

For the bolded part...

"...all children should have equal opportunity to be successful even if it requires the nation to go further into debt..."

This is false because it takes from the children of the future to pay to the government-payees of today, SOME of whom are children.

Whether the correction is via default, progressive inflation or one time taxes, the correction still occurs and the future children are then impacted.

[dotcom]

It always amuses me how states that are fiscally irresponsible because they've been throwing too much money towards special interests and buying votes end up taxing the people more to make up for their own idiocy. The day statesmen admit national debt is their fault is the day hell freezes over.

[Spendulus]

It always amuses me how states that are fiscally irresponsible because they've been throwing too much money towards special interests and buying votes end up taxing the people more to make up for their own idiocy. The day statesmen admit national debt is their fault is the day hell freezes over.

It amuses me how people believe the bullshit over and over, particular the parts about how it's for their own good.

[practicaldreamer]

OK - there has been 25 voters turned out in this particular poll, 2 of whom were undecided one way or the other.
A massive 68% are against a one off wealth tax on the wealthy in this BitcoinTalk poll - in contradistinction to the 74% in favour in the UK as polled by YouGov (2000 person representative sample presumably )

  What does this tell us about the voters in this particular online constituency ? What does it tell us about this particular poll ?


Listen folks - I mentioned it earlier, but I reckon a consumption tax might be a way forward if we are to have BTC as a contender in this crazy mixed up world .

   What do you all think ?


Or is it a case of no tax/Government/authority at all for you ? BTC being like a moral precept - a bit like "turn the other cheek" etc ??

[Ekaros]

OK - there has been 25 voters turned out in this particular poll, 2 of whom were undecided one way or the other.
A massive 68% are against a one off wealth tax on the wealthy in this BitcoinTalk poll - in contradistinction to the 74% in favour in the UK as polled by YouGov (2000 person representative sample presumably )

  What does this tell us about the voters in this particular online constituency ? What does it tell us about this particular poll ?


Listen folks - I mentioned it earlier, but I reckon a consumption tax might be a way forward if we are to have BTC as a contender in this crazy mixed up world .

   What do you all think ?


Or is it a case of no tax/Government/authority at all for you ? BTC being like a moral precept - a bit like "turn the other cheek" etc ??

Consumption tax doesn't work because rich consume less in porpotion than poor... The income distribution is just too skewed for them to work and still get decent service. Or then the average folk need to gain huge negotiation power over those who have the capital...

I'm in undecided group, it's not that some assets like public debt couldn't be easily taxed or forfeited from rich, but in the end most of wealth is now speculative or immaterial like stocks... So cutting from this is not exactly workable if it leaves to liquidation of these assets to pay part of their value, thus plummeting the value...

[practicaldreamer]

Consumption tax doesn't work because rich consume less in porpotion than poor...

This. Consumption taxes penalise the poor. Personally I think income taxes should be based on how much it costs to get by - I think there should be a flat tax (60% or more) on people's disposable income - i.e. raise the tax-free threshold so that nobody earning less than a living wage (say £20-25k) pays tax. This system would decrease tax for everyone earning less than ~£45k.

Yes - I see what you are saying - but I envisage a Consumption Tax being implemented in a wholly different way to our current VAT (which is an unfair tax that hits the poor disproportionately).

A CT would be related to your ability to pay (like any fair tax) - almost by definition. The more you consume the more you pay. The rate of the CT could be progressive also - that is, when you enter the realm of the consumption of expensive luxuries then the rate of CT rises accordingly.

The Germans (who have a strong economy/manufacturing base) apparently save around 10% of their disposable income - this has positive knock on effects (re. investment) for the whole German economy.
 The UK, by contrast, only manages to save circa 1% of their disposable income.

A Consumption Tax might, on top of everything else, manage to create a nation of savers - it would certainly encourage one.

But, as this is a BTC forum, the real advantage of a CT is with regard to fiscal policy/raising revenue in an economy where BTC constitutes a large amount of the transactions .
The real problem with an anonymous BTC (which the transactions will in time become) is raising taxation. It wouldn't be a problem with PAYE, Inheritance tax, VAT etc - but it would be a problem on income from self employment and corporation tax. An anonymous BTC would essentially enable a nationwide "cash in hand" economy.
   Enter Consumption Tax.