Advertising services that you believe to be a scam

[Macadonian]

User in question: CjMapope
Reason: Advertising services that they believe to be a scam
Reference threads: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153493.0

As per CjMapope's request I'm taking the discussion to my own thread so that this doesn't derail the original purpose of the other thread but also outlines how morally misguided I believe CjMapope to be.

During this thread CJ makes the statement that Yobit is a scam operation and made their own flag against Yobit via a "misclick". Which are both shown below:

yobit is scammy, i will support this flag
sadly i seem  to have made my OWN flag on them by misclick instead
once i fix that, i will support YOUR flag lolz

edit: ok, so you never made a flag it seems?  im still learning this new system, i just saw "support flag of yobit for scamming" and tried to get in on that shit haha
fail lol

edit2: figured it out  supported Joel's flag

CjMapope alleged the following, but later withdrew it: Due largely to the factors mentioned in this topic, I believe that anyone dealing with YoBit is at a high risk of losing money, and guests would be well-advised to avoid doing so. This determination is based on concrete red flags which any knowledgeable & reasonable forum user should agree with, and it is not based on the user's opinions.

CJ later goes on to make the following statement after being challenged by another member (which I would like to not name drop):

haha nice try

unlike most people my views are pretty secure, unlike MOST people i can have a PAID AD as a sig
and still voice that i DONT agree with how something (or SOMEONE) is
if YOBIT has a problem with my pushing them to be better, and standing up for the community with my words
they can ban me from their campaign, plain and simple

nice try tho , i know alot will be mad this campaign is back (and banned some of their spammers it seems), but my opinion on the flag dosent change, i support it still
the PEOPLE will decide (by spamming or not) if this campaign will continue
remember yobit had a campaign here for YEARS b4

anyways this is OffTopic, take it to your own thread or something man

edit:  @macadonian.  learn the rules (you are ignored now as obviously you dont even know basic rules here and wanna judge ME? lol) , stop being offtopic, take it to your own thread, i wont bother to reply to you idiots that care way too much about internet points on this forum, i follow Theymos' rules here, thx, take care bye

What I find interesting about this reply is it looks like CJ is on some sort of power trip and believes that it takes balls to wear a paid ad in his signature and still voice that they don't agree with how Yobit is run. However I have an issue with the morals of someone who is willing to outright claim that Yobit is a scam operation and that solid red flags have been given but is still willing to advertise their services. Guests or others on the forum may well see CJ as being a respected member due to their rank and their merit and think that Yobit is a good exchange to use. Whatever the claims of Yobit are and whether they are a scam operation is yet to be fully confirmed. However no one can deny the amount of shady actions that have happened over the years. But its not a issue of whether Yobit is a scam or not its the viewpoint that I have a problem with. My personal morals would be not to advertise anything that I personally believe to be a scam.

My opinion on why CJ is willing to risk his reputation is because simply they are getting good monetary return where they would not get elsewhere. Judging by his posts I doubt that he would be accepted on any reputable campaign on the forum and has in fact tried getting on other campaigns in the last few days prior to advertising for Yobit:

Username: CjMapope
Post count: 2937
Rank: Legendary
Bitcoin address: 1CjMApoPEVFgg5gAFWLrUdCJdzaqCmTNZZ

thx for consideration!  will attach sig/avatar if accepted

edit:  @macadonian.  learn the rules (you are ignored now as obviously you dont even know basic rules here and wanna judge ME? lol) , stop being offtopic, take it to your own thread, i wont bother to reply to you idiots that care way too much about internet points on this forum, i follow Theymos' rules here, thx, take care bye

I would like to address this little last bit that CJ made. First of all I know the rules and have followed them you could possibly critique me for going off topic on the thread that you made those statements however I have respected your wishes and out of respect for those on that thread have taken it to my own.

My opinion is your attitude stinks. There have been several members who have pointed out what is wrong with you advertising a service that you personally believe to be a scam but you have not listened to reason and instead insisted on attacking those members. Well I say that but honestly 3 people called you out one member being much reputable than the other two and you conveniently didn't attack them and just ignored it. Do you fear those with reputation and only attack those that have none like myself?

And going on about caring for "internet points" I presume you mean merit? When in my reply did I mention anything to do with merit?

Lastly I would like to counter argument against the statement "I follow theymos' rules here" well you don't actually. Here are multiple instances where you are breaking the forum rules:

This looks really decent
no guarantees in crypto, but this one has a solid chance i would say atleast
now if only binance's stupid ID verify QRcode thing would work for me...

Good Luck on your IEO!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5159189.msg51624971#msg51624971

These posts are the equivalent to "great project".

[Macadonian]

I have tried to refrain from getting into a personal argument but thought I would publicly defend myself and outline where I think CJ is completely wrong such as the "following the rules" statement.

The conclusion of this thread is that I don't think CJ is a trustworthy member due to the viewpoints and what they are willing to do for monetary gain. However CJ currently has a positive trust score and is considered trustworthy and I feel that this could misguide those new to the forum and my question would be do we hold CJ accountable if Yobit is proven to be a scam?

I'm not suggesting a negative rating for CJ but I would definitely make the statement that Due to CJ's views and morals of advertising a service that they believe to be a scam themselves and knowingly continue to advertise their services I would not trust this member despite their positive trust score

I'm interested on the community feedback on this matter and hopefully we can get CJ to change his mind about advertising what they believe to be a scam themselves. 

[IMadeYouReadThis]

I agree it is immoral to oppose something vocally and supporting the same thing in action,  even if it is for the small amount of BTC dust you earn from supporting it.

But, I think CJ was taking a good step in supporting the flag against Yobit and I don't find any reason to drag this discussion this much as it was only about countering opinions nothing else.

The conclusion of this thread is that I don't think CJ is a trustworthy member due to the viewpoints and what they are willing to do for monetary gain. However CJ currently has a positive trust score and is considered trustworthy and I feel that this could misguide those new to the forum and

Someone's view points are not the way to judge his/her trustworthiness and it is also not an criteria for the trust score. Trust score's are totally based on the trading potential of the person and it should be seen the same.

my question would be do we hold CJ accountable if Yobit is proven to be a scam?

Absolutely not, he is just being doing his promotion job for what he is paid for, it does not make CJ a part of the Yobit team or a scammer.

I'm interested on the community feedback on this matter and hopefully we can get CJ to change his mind about advertising what they believe to be a scam themselves.  

I would personally never promote a service in anyway which I think is a scam, it is truly a question of my integrity!

[DarkStar_]

Someone's view points are not the way to judge his/her trustworthiness and it is also not an criteria for the trust score. Trust score's are totally based on the trading potential of the person and it should be seen the same.

You could argue that being willing to promote a service that you consider a scam as a red flag and create a Newbie warning flag I suppose. I don't know if this would make someone "High Risk" to deserve negative trust.

I have tried to refrain from getting into a personal argument but thought I would publicly defend myself and outline where I think CJ is completely wrong such as the "following the rules" statement.

Have CJ report the post. See what mods decide. Problem solved, no need for constant arguing back and forth and you get a (mostly) definite answer.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

You could argue that being willing to promote a service that you consider a scam as a red flag and create a Newbie warning flag I suppose. I don't know if this would make someone "High Risk" to deserve negative trust.

I don't think using the flag system for such minor issues is productive, but still you are right, a newbie flag would be a decent way to see how many people support the type of argument. I think its better to just support or oppose an already created flag over here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153493.0. There is no point in targeting specific users as it would just increase the drama IMO.

Anyways this looks like an unwanted discussion to me, as CJ is just doing his job and we could say for his personal income which anyone would think is more important to them. There are thousands of people here prompting ponzis and MLMs through there signature already, and it looks unavoidable IMO. If the campaign is really that unwilling to the forum overall, adminstration should just step in.