Why is PETER SCHIFF wrong about Bitcoin ??? Could you win a Bitcoin Debate ???

[Ucy]

I wondered how a crypto person would say these things. Then I googled the name to be sure, and I noticed he is a popular non-crypto personality.

Why does he think Gold is more valuable by the way? He probably need to understand that many informed people find Bitcoin/Blockchain very valuable, just as Facebook or telegram is very valuable to many. These are some of the features that make real cryptocurrency  incredibly valuable:  immutablity, censorship resistant, decentralization, transparency, trustless, permissionless, anonymity,.etc... You can literally create very successful autonomous communities out of these with little to no long-term consequences. If you remove most of this very important features, a Crypto will lose much of its natural value whether it's is high in price or not.

I think crypto will eventually be backed by physical assets to add to its value. Such assets don't necessarily have to be gold.

[kryptqnick]

PETER SCHIFF talks a lot about bitcoin, and even invites people from here to his live-streams to debate him on the facts about Bitcoin.   Is Peter Schiff wrong in his bullet points about the properties and reality of Bitcoin ?   If so, let us know why he is wrong !!!   In a nutshell, here are a few of the things Peter Schiff is saying about Bitcoin:

1.   The Blockchain is the future of money, YES !!!   But Bitcoin is NOT, NOT, NOT the blockchain, an infinite number of crypto currencies can be created to use the blockchain.   Back in 1990, the internet was the future, but that does not mean the first internet browser ( Netscape 1.0 ) was the best and most valuable browser on the planet...   Competition came along and NETSCAPE went to zero, forgotten in the trash heap of history...  Just because Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency means NOTHING.  Gold backed, and other, better crypto currencies with better use and real backing will make bitcoin obsolete.  Is the world first FIAT currency the best and most valuable FIAT because it was first  ?

That's a good initiative, and I enjoy a nice debate! Let's try this. I'll try to answer some points. Bitcoin does not equal Blockchain, that's true. However, I don't think that the comparison with a browser is accurate, because cryptocurrency is the main use case of Blockchain rather than a way to see it or something. Moreover, after 10 years Bitcoin is still #1 and even stronger than it used to be in maintaining this position, whereas Netscape lost most of its market share very fast.

2.   The worlds most important Central Banks and Governments are purchasing as much GOLD as they can.  NONE of them are investing in Bitcoin.  

This is true, but it does not mean that banks will decide the future or that they are right. It's natural they are against Bitcoin since it shows that banks are not necessary.

3.   The future of cryptocurrency is most likely to be one backed by gold, or some other real asset.  A crypto backed by NOTHING is not any better than a fiat currency backed by nothing.

I don't think cryptos being backed by real assets will thrive. Cryptos don't need to be backed and can still have an advantage over fiat. A big reason of backing something up is to make sure that it will be scarce and thus never suffer from hyperinflation. Cryptos are themselve generated by mining which is in fact even safer than when something is backed up by, say gold since gold has historically shown that when a lot of it is suddenly discovered economy of the country that has too much of it can in fact suffer. With cryptos that's simply impossible.

[darkangel11]

I'll pick a few:

2.   The worlds most important Central Banks and Governments are purchasing as much GOLD as they can.  NONE of them are investing in Bitcoin.  

That's because banks are centralized and they are not interested in money they cannot control. Bitcoin is allowing people to be their own banks so the banks that exist cannot really profit from it. Some are trying by offering people custody. If this becomes popular more will join because it all comes down to making money. It doesn't matter if it's bitcoin, gold, penny stocks. They all want to make money.

5.   There are a limited supply of an INFINITE number of crypto currencies.  If I create a crypto currency today, and make it so that only 24,000,000  " HARD FACTS COINS " can ever exit, does this give them a huge value ?   A limited supply of nothing is still nothing.

A cryptocurrency is a broad term. We are talking about Bitcoin here. Sure most cryptocurrencies are worthless and you can make as many as you like. Bitcoin is one and comparing a bitcoin to an altcoin is like comparing a potato and a mushroom. They have a similar feature that they both grow from the soil and need water to exist, but that's it. Most things about them are different.

[gentlemand]

Well, his crypto adventure is now over - https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1218911797626847234



Unless of course he's become a true believer in which case you have to publicly claim such things to go all the way.

I don't give a shit what he thinks about Bitcoin. It's going to do what it's going to do. If someone like that hates it that much then say so once and devote your calories to more constructive ends.

[coolcoinz]

^
That's a good thing to see.


7.   Bitcoin is NOT a store of value, it a speculative investment.  No one is buying bitcoin to act as a savings account, the price of bitcoin can swing thousands of dollars in minutes.   GET REAL, everyone is buying bitcoin in the hopes it will go to 1,000,000 USD.   There is no such thing as a free lunch, the greater the reward, the greater the risk.  If Bitcoin can Skyrocket, it can go to zero just as quickly.

He was trying to speculate and couldn't even do it right. Centralized exchanges are made for people like Peter who can't manage their own wallers. At least he wouldn't have to worry about corrupt files and if he lost his password he'd simply get a new one sent to his email address.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Well, his crypto adventure is now over - https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1218911797626847234

So... he forgot his password? And in other news, if I lose my car keys it means my car is broken and all cars were a bad idea.

Still, he'll have no problem recovering his coins because I'm absolutely sure he followed basic instructions and backed up his security phrase, right? There's no possible way he would try to use any minor issue to rubbish bitcoin and try to get more people to buy gold, especially when his entire net worth depends on it, right!?

I don't give a shit what he thinks about Bitcoin.

Exactly. As this tweet shows, he doesn't understand the first thing about bitcoin. It's incredible that people still pay any attention to this guy's opinions.

[Murat]

Yeah, He doesn't mean anything wrong, Day by day blockchain is being developed and popular around the world, many countries are trying to make something for themselves for the future purpose regarding this issue, but I don't agree with him to this point that only Blockchain will play the vital role in the coming future, it's true that not a single bank is investing in Bitcoin but it's also true without any potential no one thing could run 10 years and it will go far and far, so without Bitcoin, you can't imagine anything in this system, I think both Bitcoin and Blockchain will run in the future.

[Youghoor]

PETER SCHIFF talks a lot about bitcoin, and even invites people from here to his live-streams to debate him on the facts about Bitcoin.   Is Peter Schiff wrong in his bullet points about the properties and reality of Bitcoin ?   If so, let us know why he is wrong !!!   In a nutshell, here are a few of the things Peter Schiff is saying about Bitcoin:

1.   The Blockchain is the future of money, YES !!!   But Bitcoin is NOT, NOT, NOT the blockchain, an infinite number of crypto currencies can be created to use the blockchain.   Back in 1990, the internet was the future, but that does not mean the first internet browser ( Netscape 1.0 ) was the best and most valuable browser on the planet...   Competition came along and NETSCAPE went to zero, forgotten in the trash heap of history...  Just because Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency means NOTHING.  Gold backed, and other, better crypto currencies with better use and real backing will make bitcoin obsolete.  Is the world first FIAT currency the best and most valuable FIAT because it was first  ?

2.   The worlds most important Central Banks and Governments are purchasing as much GOLD as they can.  NONE of them are investing in Bitcoin. 

3.   The future of cryptocurrency is most likely to be one backed by gold, or some other real asset.  A crypto backed by NOTHING is not any better than a fiat currency backed by nothing.

4.   It makes no difference how much effort and energy is required to create a bitcoin.  There are a lot of bad investments throughout history where a lot of labor and energy have resulted in bankruptcy and the creation of NOTHING.   The world does not value labor, or wasted computation power, it values CREATION OF REAL WEALTH, things that we can use and that make our lives better.   How much time and energy was used to create Enron ?  How much time and energy was used to create WeWork ? You think those companies prices are going to the moon just because of the amount of energy used to create them ?  Quick, buy your WeWork stock !!!

5.   There are a limited supply of an INFINITE number of crypto currencies.  If I create a crypto currency today, and make it so that only 24,000,000  " HARD FACTS COINS " can ever exit, does this give them a huge value ?   A limited supply of nothing is still nothing.

6.   LibraCoin will be MAJOR competition for Bitcoin.  Libra Coin will fulfill the promise of quick, easy, cheap transactions that bitcoin FAILED AT.   Remember the early promise of bitcoin being used like money for more efficient transactions, it FAILED.  Transacting in bitcoin is very expensive, and it never lived up to its original potential, so they just kept changing the narrative.  LibraCoin is just the first of many challengers that will appear in the coming years.

7.   Bitcoin is NOT a store of value, it a speculative investment.  No one is buying bitcoin to act as a savings account, the price of bitcoin can swing thousands of dollars in minutes.   GET REAL, everyone is buying bitcoin in the hopes it will go to 1,000,000 USD.   There is no such thing as a free lunch, the greater the reward, the greater the risk.  If Bitcoin can Skyrocket, it can go to zero just as quickly.

Any intelligent, and rational person could talk about the realities of their investment, anyone that can not is just investing based on greed and emotion.   So what would you say to the above arguments that Peter Schiff so frequently points out ?

First and foremost, Peter Schiff does not really understand the differences between blockchain and Bitcoin. Secondly, the entire world have the wrong understanding of what Bitcoin is and the true reasons behind why Satoshi developed Bitcoin and Blockchain. Due to this wrong understanding, the market value of Bitcoin keeps changing. Bitcoin was not meant to be an asset as a lot of people see it to be now. Satoshi only wanted Bitcoin to be a decentralized version of  online payment system like the existing online payment systems with no centralized body controlling how transactions are made. Finally, there are no real facts in the points made above.

[buwaytress]

Honestly, I'm not sure why people would want to go and get into any kind of Bitcoin debate. It's different if you're Antonopoulos and you're actually an educator. But the debates I've seen (read usually)? Pointless since neither side wants to concede.

Schiff is firmly on the side of Buffett here, in that he'll never be converted publicly. But do they actually have Bitcoin? Their investment managers/advisors surely would have asked them to put at least a teeny bit into it. They're investors. Blind to the vehicle, not to the opportunity.

[mirrasel]

The gold is gold and the Digital Asset is Digital. So, we shouldn't compare it with each other. Most of the time, I don't believe any personal prediction by someone. I do also believe in data science. Data talks.

When I wake up in that morning and checked the twitter feed and found that Mr. Peter lost his all BTC, I was just shocked! Don't know what's happening inside! Who knows!

[BitcoinFX]

Why bitcoin has intrinsic value ...
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215927.msg53556510#msg53556510

[gentlemand]

But the debates I've seen (read usually)? Pointless since neither side wants to concede.

I've seen Bitcoin threads on other forums carry on for years and years. The same people are waiting to be convinced, the same people are attempting to convince them. The sensible ones have buggered off and carried on with their lives. All the while the idea has thrived and grown.

I can see why someone might think it's poo if it goes against everything they have faith in. I don't mind or care that they feel that way. I'm not hugely interested in hearing them squeal about it. They'll make zero difference to anything and I'm too far gone to care what they think.

The loudest sceptics have years of documented screeching for the uninterested to draw on. Have any of their predictions come to pass? Um, nope.

[HardFacts]

Honestly, I'm not sure why people would want to go and get into any kind of Bitcoin debate. It's different if you're Antonopoulos and you're actually an educator. But the debates I've seen (read usually)? Pointless since neither side wants to concede.

Schiff is firmly on the side of Buffett here, in that he'll never be converted publicly. But do they actually have Bitcoin? Their investment managers/advisors surely would have asked them to put at least a teeny bit into it. They're investors. Blind to the vehicle, not to the opportunity.

You are absolutely DELUSIONAL, the vast majority of mainstream investment advisers are NOT putting BitCoin into peoples portfolios.    Even if you are a huge believer in Bitcoin, The fact that you are so out of touch of reality tells me you are not very smart, not analyzing the situation in any logical way, and not someone anyone should ever listen to.

Hard Facts

[gentlemand]

You are absolutely DELUSIONAL, the vast majority of mainstream investment advisers are NOT putting BitCoin into peoples portfolios.    Even if you are a huge believer in Bitcoin, The fact that you are so out of touch of reality tells me you are not very smart, not analyzing the situation in any logical way, and not someone anyone should ever listen to.

And people are here and many have had their lives transformed by NOT listening to the mainstream. The mainstream so far has been painfully, excruciatingly wrong about the whole thing. Their cred has slowly worn down to zilch when it comes to this. They so far have demonstrated no reason why their opinions should be respected.

Maybe they'll be proved right some day. That doesn't really make up for being wrong for ten long years.

Yours is a wonderfully retro account. Shame you weren't here in 2014/15. You woulda had a ball.

[joinfree]

He can definitely have his thoughts which are mostly never going to be in favour of bitcoin but who cares There are so many bitcoin rivals out there and the least we can do is to get worries about all of them. Let's stay focus and deliberate much on how we can fulfill this global adoption even if it is not happening with bitcoin.

[d.kevin29]

You are absolutely DELUSIONAL, the vast majority of mainstream investment advisers are NOT putting BitCoin into peoples portfolios. Even if you are a huge believer in Bitcoin, The fact that you are so out of touch of reality tells me you are not very smart, not analyzing the situation in any logical way, and not someone anyone should ever listen to.

Hard Facts

You're analyzing situations in such a logical way and are so in touch with reality that less than an hour ago you posted a thread desperately asking who stole Peter's coins and why.

[HardFacts]

You are absolutely DELUSIONAL, the vast majority of mainstream investment advisers are NOT putting BitCoin into peoples portfolios. Even if you are a huge believer in Bitcoin, The fact that you are so out of touch of reality tells me you are not very smart, not analyzing the situation in any logical way, and not someone anyone should ever listen to.

Hard Facts

You're analyzing situations in such a logical way and are so in touch with reality that less than an hour ago you posted a thread desperately asking who stole Peter's coins and why.

Your response is to try to change the subject rather than address something that was TOTALLY WRONG ???  Very typical for a dishonest person to try to just change the subject rather than admit the truth....  Weather I agree with you on BitCoin or not, there is no dispute that you are lacking as a person, not trustworthy, and the type no one should ever listen to.

Hard Facts