Tulip Mania 2.0

[Timelord2067]

Do not compare things that are physical and digital because people will always say "but can I hold it" as an argument.

Ironically, that same argument can be made of the humble Tulip which once cut has a finite life span and even when potted for a longer shelf life invariably has a finite life span too.

If someone bemoans they cannot hold bitcoin in their hand, remind them their fiat bank account is no different - just some ones and zeros on a computer's hard drive (except with no block-chain for verification)

[Betwrong]

But now you've given an example of gold's intrinsic value- use in jewelry.  The value comes from it's intrinsic properties; not people speculating on it's value, but actual use.  That's not where bitcoin's value comes from, nor NFTs.  In both cases, that value comes exclusively from speculation on the future value of them, based solely on a mass assumption of future worth.  To differentiate, gold as a store of value is completely arbitrary, just like bitcoin.  But gold still has a demand outside of store of value (the intrinsic value of gold) and bitcoin and NFTs do not.  That's the difference between bitcoin and gold and why there's no difference between bitcoin and NFTs.

And this time I'm really missing your point. Didn't I show that gold is considered valuable in jewelry only because many people believe so? Now, if many people believed that possessing  1 Bitcoin was necessary for your high status, the price of BTC could rise to hundreds of thousands USD only because of that. Why? Because there are more millionaires in this world than Bitcoin max supply. Wouldn't this be an intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

It all comes down to holding it in your hands and the community belief. Gold has been around as a symbol for 2000+ years minimum, probably longer but I am not really well versed in history so it is probably 3000 years or even more. So, that means gold has been around for millennia and we are talking about bitcoin which has been here for a little over one decade and it of course doesn't get to be as valuable as gold for now.

It may become one in the future but we just do not see it for right now. Do not compare things that are physical and digital because people will always say "but can I hold it" as an argument.

I know that never makes sense and something that you end up trusting more digitally could be more fragile physically so it is better digitally. However that doesn't mean that people will not keep saying the same thing over and over again.

They most likely will, but if we have good arguments we should provide them, and maybe one day they will be able to change their mind. I believe we are entering an era where digital things are gaining more value year by year, and many physical things, which were valued for centuries, are losing their value.

Look at the Inflation Adjusted Gold Price, for example:

It turns out that gold is actually losing its value since around 1980.

[Wind_FURY]

But now you've given an example of gold's intrinsic value- use in jewelry.  The value comes from it's intrinsic properties; not people speculating on it's value, but actual use.  That's not where bitcoin's value comes from, nor NFTs.  In both cases, that value comes exclusively from speculation on the future value of them, based solely on a mass assumption of future worth.  To differentiate, gold as a store of value is completely arbitrary, just like bitcoin.  But gold still has a demand outside of store of value (the intrinsic value of gold) and bitcoin and NFTs do not.  That's the difference between bitcoin and gold and why there's no difference between bitcoin and NFTs.

And this time I'm really missing your point. Didn't I show that gold is considered valuable in jewelry only because many people believe so? Now, if many people believed that possessing  1 Bitcoin was necessary for your high status, the price of BTC could rise to hundreds of thousands USD only because of that. Why? Because there are more millionaires in this world than Bitcoin max supply. Wouldn't this be an intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

It all comes down to holding it in your hands and the community belief. Gold has been around as a symbol for 2000+ years minimum, probably longer but I am not really well versed in history so it is probably 3000 years or even more. So, that means gold has been around for millennia and we are talking about bitcoin which has been here for a little over one decade and it of course doesn't get to be as valuable as gold for now.

It may become one in the future but we just do not see it for right now. Do not compare things that are physical and digital because people will always say "but can I hold it" as an argument.

I know that never makes sense and something that you end up trusting more digitally could be more fragile physically so it is better digitally. However that doesn't mean that people will not keep saying the same thing over and over again.

They most likely will, but if we have good arguments we should provide them, and maybe one day they will be able to change their mind. I believe we are entering an era where digital things are gaining more value year by year, and many physical things, which were valued for centuries, are losing their value.

Look at the Inflation Adjusted Gold Price, for example:

It turns out that gold is actually losing its value since around 1980.

A link to an article explaining how to calculate Inflation Adjusted Gold Price.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/265225-determining-the-true-inflation-adjusted-gold-price

That chart is right, Gold value during the 1980’s does have more value and than Gold during 2015, but the article valued Gold at $8,194 during 1980’s and $3,604.22 during 2011, the year it was posted.

[jaysabi]

~

But now you've given an example of gold's intrinsic value- use in jewelry.  The value comes from it's intrinsic properties; not people speculating on it's value, but actual use.  That's not where bitcoin's value comes from, nor NFTs.  In both cases, that value comes exclusively from speculation on the future value of them, based solely on a mass assumption of future worth.  To differentiate, gold as a store of value is completely arbitrary, just like bitcoin.  But gold still has a demand outside of store of value (the intrinsic value of gold) and bitcoin and NFTs do not.  That's the difference between bitcoin and gold and why there's no difference between bitcoin and NFTs.

And this time I'm really missing your point. Didn't I show that gold is considered valuable in jewelry only because many people believe so? Now, if many people believed that possessing  1 Bitcoin was necessary for your high status, the price of BTC could rise to hundreds of thousands USD only because of that. Why? Because there are more millionaires in this world than Bitcoin max supply. Wouldn't this be an intrinsic value of Bitcoin?

No, this isn't an example of arbitrary value.  Being demanded for jewelry is what gives it intrinsic value.  The preference of gold in jewelry over other metals could be an arbitrary consumer preference, but the preference is the driving force no matter the reason, and that gives it intrinsic value.  If gold stops being preferred over another metal or just loses cachet in general, the intrinsic value would disappear.  

If having 1 bitcoin was actually a requirement for having high status, that might give it intrinsic value.  But that's not the case and I don't see a reason it would ever be the case.  The actual measurement of high status is wealth, no matter the form.

But now you've given an example of gold's intrinsic value- use in jewelry.

You forgot gold is used in circuity and motherboards etc and is a better conductor than either copper or silver from the same group of the periodic table.  Gold (unlike silver or copper) does not corrode so it's use in electronics is more preferred.

Scrap metal recovery from circuit boards is a thing now and may not make a person rich, but is far from being cost prohibitive (and usually only involves chemicals, not power consumption - a far cry from the labour intensive cultivation of crops, harvesting and transport to market that were needed for the manufacture and sale of Tulips)

Yes, another reason gold has intrinsic value, utility in industrial applications. 

[Betwrong]

~

A link to an article explaining how to calculate Inflation Adjusted Gold Price.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/265225-determining-the-true-inflation-adjusted-gold-price

That chart is right, Gold value during the 1980’s does have more value and than Gold during 2015, but the article valued Gold at $8,194 during 1980’s and $3,604.22 during 2011, the year it was posted.

As far as I understand, the graph might look a bit different if another than CPI measure was used. But it wouldn't change the whole picture, right? Or did you mean, it would?

What I don't understand in that article, is what is "Manic Gold Price", and how an article dated Apr. 25, 2011 could contain a chart with figures up to 2020?

Maybe it's Sunday and my head isn't working properly, I'm sorry, but I can't understand where are these



 figures coming from?
 
 

~
If having 1 bitcoin was actually a requirement for having high status, that might give it intrinsic value.  But that's not the case and I don't see a reason it would ever be the case.  The actual measurement of high status is wealth, no matter the form.

I disagree. But let's suppose it's true. Wouldn't having 1 Bitcoin be an indication of belonging to high status group then?

[Wind_FURY]

Are NFTs’ floor prices currently crashing? I believe it’s currently “that” part of the bull cycle. Everyone should start selling the Tulips for liquid assets. I know some of you want them HODLed in shitcoins, but better in assets with more liquidity than illiquid Tulips.

[FanEagle]

NFT prices are stuff that we should be careful about these days because I am seeing more and more stuff that are getting more dangerous with basically zero utility with the NFT still going for thousands of dollars and people do not realize how useless that is. I would like to suggest that there is a good case that we could be getting great NFT that has a great utility that makes up for a huge price increase because it has utility.

However all these fake stuff that makes no sense just because it is copycat of the first famous ones doesn't mean that it should be something like that in the end neither, it is really useless to see these and then people getting hyped about it, they are just copcycat horrible stuff, do not get excited about it.

[dothebeats]

Most NFTs are absolute money grabs. No value whatsoever can ever be found from them, and it's a shame that even though that's the case, most people still buy into that idea and tell themselves that nothing could ever go wrong. Take for example some art NFTs from celebrities and other organizations. It's nice to have something that directly came from those you look up to, but having them digitally? Those can easily be reproduced without much work, so why would someone in their sane mind pay lots to these pixels on your screen saved on a blockchain?

[Wind_FURY]

The screenshot was posted, and shared by grubles in Twitter.



All of the NFTs generated, and issued in the Ethereum and Solana networks are all available FOR FREE, contained in this zip/tar file, downloadable through the BitTorrent network.

[Wind_FURY]

Discrimination and hate towards NFT holders? We know it’s Tulip Mania 2.0, but I wouldn’t turn NFT ownership into a social issue. EXCEPT if these haters are really NFT holders who lost money in Tulip Mania 2.0.

[RealMalatesta]

Discrimination and hate towards NFT holders? We know it’s Tulip Mania 2.0, but I wouldn’t turn NFT ownership into a social issue. EXCEPT if these haters are really NFT holders who lost money in Tulip Mania 2.0.

It is just people who missed out and couldn't make money from it. I personally never made a dime out of NFT world neither but I didn't went against it, some stuff just doesn't make sense to people and they do not invest and they see others make a ton of money from it.

I am an avid protestor of the shit memecoin world as well, not NFT world but the memecoin ones, but I have seen plenty of people make plenty of profit from it so I can't be too much against it, it is just how people make a profit and that's fine. All in all there is nothing we could do to stop them, just let the people who want to invest end up investing and learning from experience, that is the best teacher.

[Oceat]

Discrimination and hate towards NFT holders? We know it’s Tulip Mania 2.0, but I wouldn’t turn NFT ownership into a social issue. EXCEPT if these haters are really NFT holders who lost money in Tulip Mania 2.0.

It is just people who missed out and couldn't make money from it. I personally never made a dime out of NFT world neither but I didn't went against it, some stuff just doesn't make sense to people and they do not invest and they see others make a ton of money from it.

I am an avid protestor of the shit memecoin world as well, not NFT world but the memecoin ones, but I have seen plenty of people make plenty of profit from it so I can't be too much against it, it is just how people make a profit and that's fine. All in all there is nothing we could do to stop them, just let the people who want to invest end up investing and learning from experience, that is the best teacher.

It's funny how ridiculous these people are hating the NFT community just because they didn't earn well just like what the others did. I did lost some from NFT since I don't know how their market works at first but I never step down to this kind of level when losing. It's just that they don't really know how these new crypto gimmick nowadays work that's why they just ride the hype and end up losing because someone did entice them with money.

I believe this(NFT) is similar to tulip mania too which is good for early investors and bad for late investors in the long run.

[Wind_FURY]

Discrimination and hate towards NFT holders? We know it’s Tulip Mania 2.0, but I wouldn’t turn NFT ownership into a social issue. EXCEPT if these haters are really NFT holders who lost money in Tulip Mania 2.0.

It is just people who missed out and couldn't make money from it. I personally never made a dime out of NFT world neither but I didn't went against it, some stuff just doesn't make sense to people and they do not invest and they see others make a ton of money from it.

I am an avid protestor of the shit memecoin world as well, not NFT world but the memecoin ones, but I have seen plenty of people make plenty of profit from it so I can't be too much against it, it is just how people make a profit and that's fine. All in all there is nothing we could do to stop them, just let the people who want to invest end up investing and learning from experience, that is the best teacher.

I didn’t make money from it, I don’t feel hate for it. I believe the people with that kind of hate for something must have lost a large amount of money from it. Read their tweets. They are hoping that people die? If that grows to millions of haters, it will become a real social issue, which might make NFTs more than Tulip Mania 2.0.