Powell St Louis police shooting video

[1anonymous]

As much as the liberal media will try to spin this shooting as police brutality, the 911 calls in the video state man with a knife causing a disturbance.

http://247news.net/news/powell-shooting-st-louis-police/

Maybe cops need to carry stun rifles like they have in prisons.

It shoots a bean stun bag to immobilize nuts

Use of a gun against a pocket knife is over kill

Better police training with stun rifles are needed

IMO

[bluefirecorp]

Honestly, it's the mentality of police officers that bother me. It's the "us vs you" type mentality.

Take a look at this thread: http://forums.officer.com/t194085/

Rather you're conservative or liberal, you'll have to agree the mentality there is just shocking to say the least. The OP posts a well thought out post about not using no-knock raids for drug busts. The comments are scary. These are literally real-life police officers. These are the type of people that are meant to upheld the law and protect you from criminals.

[FFrost]

A knife for gods sake surely the cops get close combat training it all seems a little unfair towards the criminal

[Lethn]

The true irony of all this is that the cops are being so distracted and paranoid about what's going on they won't see the real threat outflanking them which will have been caused by their own paranoia in the first place, all it's going to take is more Ferguson incidents and somebody is going to initiate a guerilla war against the police and a real one at that, not just some psychopath going on a killing spree.

[Bitwayup85]

They just act there god and can do whatever they want and i'm sure some of them think and know they made a dumb decision. But like was that really necessary. They could have tazed him or gave warning shots or shot like leg or something your not gonna have major injuries from.

[TheButterZone]

If someone with a knife is heading towards your patrol vehicle, do you A) get out of it so he can stab you, and you have "no choice" but to unload your whole mag at point blank range B) stay inside the safety of your vehicle and hit him at about 5 MPH as you're braking to a stop

[Lucky Cris]

Evidently some of you think using a gun in a knife fight is unfair. Well, it's not. Vests might stop a bullet but a knife will slide right through, easily. A knife is the same level of force as a gun in LE's position, this is true everywhere in the US. Depending on the state (of course the totality of the situation plays a role), an officer can shoot a suspect from several feet away if they have a knife. In SC it's 30ft... The knife holder does not need to be in the officers reach length; reaction time is a hell of a lot slower than you think.

Keep in mind LE is charged to protect citizens, by any means necessary to eliminate the threat. I don't really know the specifics of this incident, but if the victim here had the ability (the knife) AND an opportunity AND the public or the officer was in immediate jeopardy, he may be justified. Those 3 conditions must be met in order for LE to use deadly force: ability, opportunity, and jeopardy.

[TheButterZone]

The cops gave him the opportunity to stab them by getting outside their vehicle and placing only themselves in jeopardy (since it looked like the perp moved away from the "civilians", so they wouldn't be in the line of fire.)

Just because you have a knife doesn't mean you have the opportunity to place people inside a fucking knife-proof box in jeopardy. A vehicle travelling 5 MPH in a knife fight is absolutely fair and just.

[Lucky Cris]

The cops gave him the opportunity to stab them by getting outside their vehicle and placing only themselves in jeopardy (since it looked like the perp moved away from the "civilians", so they wouldn't be in the line of fire.)

Just because you have a knife doesn't mean you have the opportunity to place people inside a fucking knife-proof box in jeopardy. A vehicle travelling 5 MPH in a knife fight is absolutely fair and just.

I see your point but the fact still remain, the guy had a knife in public causing a disturbance. Again, I don't know how this all went down (I'm curious now) but getting out of the car to first try and defuse the situation is a normal response. You suggest using his vehicle would've been a better option, ha! Then the officer would've really been in hot water. think if it this way... What if perp took off toward a crowd with his knife at the ready? There's no way anyone sitting in a car can react in enough time. Consider that officers don't have the entire story when the get on scene. And don't forget you can't predict people's actions.

[cp1]

If you want to see the MO police at their finest there's this gem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YknrZE0CCYE

[TheButterZone]

The cops gave him the opportunity to stab them by getting outside their vehicle and placing only themselves in jeopardy (since it looked like the perp moved away from the "civilians", so they wouldn't be in the line of fire.)

Just because you have a knife doesn't mean you have the opportunity to place people inside a fucking knife-proof box in jeopardy. A vehicle travelling 5 MPH in a knife fight is absolutely fair and just.

I see your point but the fact still remain, the guy had a knife in public causing a disturbance. Again, I don't know how this all went down (I'm curious now) but getting out of the car to first try and defuse the situation is a normal response. You suggest using his vehicle would've been a better option, ha! Then the officer would've really been in hot water. think if it this way... What if perp took off toward a crowd with his knife at the ready? There's no way anyone sitting in a car can react in enough time. Consider that officers don't have the entire story when the get on scene. And don't forget you can't predict people's actions.

Watch the video like I did, then.

Pretty sure one of the things we were taught by a retired police officer in "academy" was that if a violent criminal posing a deadly threat heads into the path of your deadly weapon (your vehicle), YOU HIT THEM WITH IT. You can't defuse a situation when a suicidal perp with a knife is only a few feet away from your unshielded body.

7.33 FPS is better than 1100 FPS to neutralize and not exterminate the threat.

The cops suicidally escalated the situation.

[Lucky Cris]

The cops gave him the opportunity to stab them by getting outside their vehicle and placing only themselves in jeopardy (since it looked like the perp moved away from the "civilians", so they wouldn't be in the line of fire.)

Just because you have a knife doesn't mean you have the opportunity to place people inside a fucking knife-proof box in jeopardy. A vehicle travelling 5 MPH in a knife fight is absolutely fair and just.

I see your point but the fact still remain, the guy had a knife in public causing a disturbance. Again, I don't know how this all went down (I'm curious now) but getting out of the car to first try and defuse the situation is a normal response. You suggest using his vehicle would've been a better option, ha! Then the officer would've really been in hot water. think if it this way... What if perp took off toward a crowd with his knife at the ready? There's no way anyone sitting in a car can react in enough time. Consider that officers don't have the entire story when the get on scene. And don't forget you can't predict people's actions.

Pretty sure one of the things were we taught by a police officer was that if a violent criminal posing a deadly threat runs into the path of your deadly weapon (your vehicle), YOU HIT THEM WITH IT.

The cops suicidally escalated the situation.

I'm not saying they didn't escalate the situation, I don't know. I'm not following this case and only read about it on this forum. You said the guy was walking away from the crowd, why would they run him over at that point?

And keep in mind, while it's more justifiable for citizens to use their car as a deadly weapon... Officers are held by a much higher standard given their training (tactical and communication). So you can't put citizens in the same boat as officers. Not the same class. Plus keep in kind, they're trained to use their guns as force, not their cars.

It's unfortunate so many people have such negative things to say about LE. Do I agree with how some situations are handled, hell no! But I know that we need the order. I know there's a shit load if dirty cops too. But for the most part, they do their duty. For every bad incident we see an officer involved in in the news, there's a million and 1 good deeds that go unnoticed. We shouldn't generalize and stereotype the entire population. Not all officers make bad decisions <- that's a character flaw, not a flaw with the system.

[TheButterZone]

The cops gave him the opportunity to stab them by getting outside their vehicle and placing only themselves in jeopardy (since it looked like the perp moved away from the "civilians", so they wouldn't be in the line of fire.)

Just because you have a knife doesn't mean you have the opportunity to place people inside a fucking knife-proof box in jeopardy. A vehicle travelling 5 MPH in a knife fight is absolutely fair and just.

I see your point but the fact still remain, the guy had a knife in public causing a disturbance. Again, I don't know how this all went down (I'm curious now) but getting out of the car to first try and defuse the situation is a normal response. You suggest using his vehicle would've been a better option, ha! Then the officer would've really been in hot water. think if it this way... What if perp took off toward a crowd with his knife at the ready? There's no way anyone sitting in a car can react in enough time. Consider that officers don't have the entire story when the get on scene. And don't forget you can't predict people's actions.

Watch the video like I did, then.

Pretty sure one of the things we were taught by a retired police officer in "academy" was that if a violent criminal posing a deadly threat heads into the path of your deadly weapon (your vehicle), YOU HIT THEM WITH IT. You can't defuse a situation when a suicidal perp with a knife is only a few feet away from your unshielded body.

7.33 FPS is better than 1100 FPS to neutralize and not exterminate the threat.

The cops suicidally escalated the situation.

I'm not saying they didn't escalate the situation, I don't know. I'm not following this case and only read about it on this forum. You said the guy was walking away from the crowd, why would they run him over at that point?

And keep in mind, while it's more justifiable for citizens to use their car as a deadly weapon... Officers are held by a much higher standard given their training (tactical and communication). So you can't put citizens in the same boat as officers. Not the same class. Plus keep in kind, they're trained to use their guns as force, not their cars.

Please reread my quote.

You're not going to "run someone over" braking past 5 MPH (the last grade on an analog speedometer before 0), you will however knock them on their ass (and possibly force them to reflexively drop the knife) just before you come to a stop, at which point, you give yourself some time to roll him over and apply cuffs, or even just consider less-lethal options to overcome resisting arrest. Immediately getting out of your vehicle while he's only a few feet away gives you at least a split second before his knife can make contact with you.

A professionally trained police force doesn't engage in tactical suicide to escalate to having to shoot every threat when they have better options for all involved.