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Author Topic: Obama Prepares Amnesty Plan  (Read 4743 times)
jaysabi
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November 21, 2014, 09:44:09 PM
 #41

Maybe I can steer this back on topic.


1) Is this a good plan?

2)  Is this an appropriate use of executive power? (Or, alternately, has the President claimed a legislative power?)

My answer to number 1 is I like the plan more than I don't. When Republicans say "Immigrant," they do so as a pejorative. I don't believe Republicans hate illegal immigrants so much as they hate immigrants. The US has a long history of hating every generation that has just arrived......

My answer to number 2 is I don't think so. As much as I like the plan, I'm uncomfortable with the way it is being implemented. ....

1.  I have not seen "Republicans hating immigrants".  I say that from knowing large numbers of them.  Maybe you've fallen for a often repeated piece of propaganda here.

2.   If a president says to Congress "Either do XYZ or I will" he is explicitly SAYING that he'll take on, unconstitutional legislative powers if his threat is not obeyed.  It's also a very childish way to try to get something done.

On your first point, it's entirely possible. Is it not also possible you don't know all of them? You don't have to go very far into internet comment sections to see conservatives bashing immigrants on the basis of race.

On the second point, as I've already stated I think this action isn't justified. But your example doesn't prove it's unconstitutional. Political posturing does not prove unconstitutionality. If the president has the authority to do something and says "pass this law or I'll use my authority to do it myself," that's not unconstitutional. It's unconstitutional if he doesn't have the authority in the first place. But I think I'm just arguing semantics here. We're in agreement that he shouldn't have done it.

And most of politics is childish. The majority of politics in America is obstructing the other party so they can never have political victories. That's good politics, but terrible for the country.

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November 22, 2014, 04:28:54 AM
 #42

I personally do not think Clinton is electable after what happened in bengazi on 9/11 as if she were to win the nomination she will surely be painted as a murderer. She has a lot of other baggage/skeletons that will likely be brought up   

Even now, she is leading the opinion polls against all her potential GOP challengers (including Rand Paul and Chris Christie) by double digits. She looks all set to win the 2016 elections.
Spendulus
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November 22, 2014, 04:34:06 AM
 #43

Maybe I can steer this back on topic.


1) Is this a good plan?

2)  Is this an appropriate use of executive power? (Or, alternately, has the President claimed a legislative power?)

My answer to number 1 is I like the plan more than I don't. When Republicans say "Immigrant," they do so as a pejorative. I don't believe Republicans hate illegal immigrants so much as they hate immigrants. The US has a long history of hating every generation that has just arrived......

My answer to number 2 is I don't think so. As much as I like the plan, I'm uncomfortable with the way it is being implemented. ....

1.  I have not seen "Republicans hating immigrants".  I say that from knowing large numbers of them.  Maybe you've fallen for a often repeated piece of propaganda here.

2.   If a president says to Congress "Either do XYZ or I will" he is explicitly SAYING that he'll take on, unconstitutional legislative powers if his threat is not obeyed.  It's also a very childish way to try to get something done.

On your first point, it's entirely possible. Is it not also possible you don't know all of them? You don't have to go very far into internet comment sections to see conservatives bashing immigrants on the basis of race.

On the second point, as I've already stated I think this action isn't justified. But your example doesn't prove it's unconstitutional. Political posturing does not prove unconstitutionality. If the president has the authority to do something and says "pass this law or I'll use my authority to do it myself," that's not unconstitutional. It's unconstitutional if he doesn't have the authority in the first place. But I think I'm just arguing semantics here. We're in agreement that he shouldn't have done it.

And most of politics is childish. The majority of politics in America is obstructing the other party so they can never have political victories. That's good politics, but terrible for the country.
On #1 I have no need or interest to attempt to form opinions based on Internet comments, I refer to actual live people I have known.

#2 like you say we are in agreement.  Regarding constitutionality I leave that to scholalrs.
jaysabi
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November 22, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
 #44

Maybe I can steer this back on topic.


1) Is this a good plan?

2)  Is this an appropriate use of executive power? (Or, alternately, has the President claimed a legislative power?)

My answer to number 1 is I like the plan more than I don't. When Republicans say "Immigrant," they do so as a pejorative. I don't believe Republicans hate illegal immigrants so much as they hate immigrants. The US has a long history of hating every generation that has just arrived......

My answer to number 2 is I don't think so. As much as I like the plan, I'm uncomfortable with the way it is being implemented. ....

1.  I have not seen "Republicans hating immigrants".  I say that from knowing large numbers of them.  Maybe you've fallen for a often repeated piece of propaganda here.

2.   If a president says to Congress "Either do XYZ or I will" he is explicitly SAYING that he'll take on, unconstitutional legislative powers if his threat is not obeyed.  It's also a very childish way to try to get something done.

On your first point, it's entirely possible. Is it not also possible you don't know all of them? You don't have to go very far into internet comment sections to see conservatives bashing immigrants on the basis of race.

On the second point, as I've already stated I think this action isn't justified. But your example doesn't prove it's unconstitutional. Political posturing does not prove unconstitutionality. If the president has the authority to do something and says "pass this law or I'll use my authority to do it myself," that's not unconstitutional. It's unconstitutional if he doesn't have the authority in the first place. But I think I'm just arguing semantics here. We're in agreement that he shouldn't have done it.

And most of politics is childish. The majority of politics in America is obstructing the other party so they can never have political victories. That's good politics, but terrible for the country.
On #1 I have no need or interest to attempt to form opinions based on Internet comments, I refer to actual live people I have known.

#2 like you say we are in agreement.  Regarding constitutionality I leave that to scholalrs.

Fair on both points!

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