Russian Fighters within reach of Denmark/Sweden Air Space.. AGAIN!

[Hamuki]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.
The Russian fighters disabled their transponderes to avoid detection.

Danish and Italian Fighters where sent to intercept.

Cant find source on BBC.

But was found on Danish news site.

This comes only after a few days where russia threatned Denmark because we were upgrading our missile shield with the US on our Ships.

Thoughts?

~Hamuki

[--Encrypted--]

my thoughts? give them what they want. they're obviously provoking everyone.

[Hamuki]

my thoughts? give them what they want. they're obviously provoking everyone.

So we should give them the old soviet union?

Its countries today, and they are deffended by NATO.
Russia wont get bigger than it is now.
Or it will escalate.

[jaysabi]

I have to take these reports with a grain of salt now. Although Russian fighters have violated foreign airspace before, I know of at least one time it was claimed to be Russian fighters by Sweden, who later admitted it was not Russian, but French.

The Swedish Armed Forces has confirmed that a foreign aircraft entered Swedish airspace on Saturday, but says it was French and not Russian as initially reported by tabloid Expressen.

Swedish JAS Gripen fighter jets reportedly confronted the French plane over the weekend.

"I can confirm that a French plane was in Swedish airspace on Saturday," military spokesperson Jesper Tengroth told Expressen. He would not say why the plane was in Swedish territory.

The information about a new infringement comes almost exactly two months after another scandal when two Russian planes entered Swedish airspace. The Ministry for Foreign Affairs confirmed that incident.

My thoughts are we shouldn't be Russian to judgment.   

[Aggressor66]

Sweden's Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist told TT that as the Russian jets were flying in international airspace, they had not broken any rules, but added that flying without a transponder was "inappropriate behaviour".

http://www.thelocal.se/20150324/russian-fighter-jets-spotted-off-sweden

[saddampbuh]

international air space

[tvbcof]

WRT the missile shield, it is inherently defensive to target a missile defense system in a mutually assured destruction environment.  We are still in such an environment and will be for some time I hope (because it has proven stable unlike the alternative...just ask any of the many countries who have been squashed recently by the U.S...)

It goes without saying that anyone who allows their territory to be used for strategic military purposes becomes a target.  All the Russian dude did was to chose to say it, and in what I thought was a pretty matter-of-fact way.  It was probably doing the Danish population a favor since there will probably be a fair number of people who don't get it.  What the population chooses to do after understanding things better is up to them.

[Hamuki]

international air space

I see.
First report was that they violated Danish air space but was called off a little later.
Thread edited.

[Hamuki]

It's of course a show off to mark the territory after the recent incident "ambassador incident".
Danes wanted to participate in the missile shield? Comrade Putin will put their new systems to a test!

Its a deffence system.. Not an attack system.
Putin should stay out of Ukraine and should keep his fighters away from Swedish/Danish Air Space.

A russian fighter almost colided with a civilian aircraft in COPENHAGEN.
Getting that far into Danish Airspace should have had big consequenses.
The only reason why it got so far into the airspace was because it deactivated the transponder.

The only thing Putin is getting out from this is the anger from the Danish people.
And at some point one of their fighters will hopefully be shot down.

[Grand_Voyageur]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.
The Russian fighters disabled their transponderes to avoid detection.

Danish and Italian Fighters where sent to intercept.

Cant find source on BBC.

But was found on Danish news site.

This comes only after a few days where russia threatned Denmark because we were upgrading our missile shield with the US on our Ships.

Thoughts?

~Hamuki

I think you could still refer to The Aviationist article about it.
What worried me more than the increased tempo of Russian training ops is the possible meanings of a sudden stop of the said ops; because this could be understood by outsiders as a rest & maintenance phase before actual, real, military operations.

[NUFCrichard]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.

International air space, i.e. it doesn't belong to anyone and anyone can fly through it without needing to let nearby countries know about it.
It is a non-event.  If they fly into Danish or Swedish air space, then it will be an incident, but until then it is just complaining about someone doing nothing wrong.

The same goes for when they flew near the UK recently, near but not into our air space..

[Hamuki]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.

International air space, i.e. it doesn't belong to anyone and anyone can fly through it without needing to let nearby countries know about it.
It is a non-event.  If they fly into Danish or Swedish air space, then it will be an incident, but until then it is just complaining about someone doing nothing wrong.

The same goes for when they flew near the UK recently, near but not into our air space..

Then why do it without transponderes active?
Why did they deactivate them?

[Grand_Voyageur]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.

International air space, i.e. it doesn't belong to anyone and anyone can fly through it without needing to let nearby countries know about it.
It is a non-event.  If they fly into Danish or Swedish air space, then it will be an incident, but until then it is just complaining about someone doing nothing wrong.

The same goes for when they flew near the UK recently, near but not into our air space..

Then why do it without transponderes active?
Why did they deactivate them?

Simulated war/combat condition. This is the risky part because, in wartime civilian air traffic would be grounded but, in peacetime you cannot ground  civilian air traffic and you're flying in crowded airspaces without coordination with ATCs thus increasing the risks to safety (e.g. collisions).

[Hamuki]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.

International air space, i.e. it doesn't belong to anyone and anyone can fly through it without needing to let nearby countries know about it.
It is a non-event.  If they fly into Danish or Swedish air space, then it will be an incident, but until then it is just complaining about someone doing nothing wrong.

The same goes for when they flew near the UK recently, near but not into our air space..

Then why do it without transponderes active?
Why did they deactivate them?

Simulated war/combat condition. This is the risky part because, in wartime civilian air traffic would be grounded but, in peacetime you cannot ground  civilian air traffic and you're flying in crowded airspaces without coordination with ATCs thus increasing the risks to safety (e.g. collisions).

Just funny how we have to send fighters to intercept them so they wont enter Danish Air space all the time.
And its everytime we do it.
Its to provoke, not to train.

[Aggressor66]

Makes you wonder though, why would the Russian aircraft be "invisible" to civilian radar?

[Hamuki]

Makes you wonder though, why would the Russian aircraft be "invisible" to civilian radar?

Yea.. It is rather scary.
Will hope that is stops in the near future.

[Grand_Voyageur]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.

International air space, i.e. it doesn't belong to anyone and anyone can fly through it without needing to let nearby countries know about it.
It is a non-event.  If they fly into Danish or Swedish air space, then it will be an incident, but until then it is just complaining about someone doing nothing wrong.

The same goes for when they flew near the UK recently, near but not into our air space..

Then why do it without transponderes active?
Why did they deactivate them?

Simulated war/combat condition. This is the risky part because, in wartime civilian air traffic would be grounded but, in peacetime you cannot ground  civilian air traffic and you're flying in crowded airspaces without coordination with ATCs thus increasing the risks to safety (e.g. collisions).

Just funny how we have to send fighters to intercept them so they wont enter Danish Air space all the time.
And its everytime we do it.
Its to provoke, not to train.

Air Forces trains everyday, often simulating war/combat condition; however, if you train this way in periods of international tension near territory of countries with each party seeing the other as potential hostile a party could interpret such training as a provocation, Russian see NATO patrols as provocation, NATO see Russian ones as provocation.

Makes you wonder though, why would the Russian aircraft be "invisible" to civilian radar?

Civilian ATC radars are mostly not real radars at all but receive aircraft transponders' signal. Turn an aircraft transponder OFF and the same aircraft will be visible only to Air Defense (a.k.a military) radars and a few primary ATC radars (the real civilian radars). In this condition quality of ATC air picture degrade a lot and workload for air traffic controllers skyrocketed up; thus, risks of accidents go up as well.

[Aggressor66]

It is clear that the Russian aircraft was being operated in a reckless manner.
Having the transponder off in close proximity to civilian air traffic endangers innocents.
It is entirely consistent with their prior aggressive actions towards airliners and disregard for safety.

[Hamuki]

Russian Fighter planes flew in international Air space around Gotland and Bornholm.

International air space, i.e. it doesn't belong to anyone and anyone can fly through it without needing to let nearby countries know about it.
It is a non-event.  If they fly into Danish or Swedish air space, then it will be an incident, but until then it is just complaining about someone doing nothing wrong.

The same goes for when they flew near the UK recently, near but not into our air space..

Then why do it without transponderes active?
Why did they deactivate them?

Simulated war/combat condition. This is the risky part because, in wartime civilian air traffic would be grounded but, in peacetime you cannot ground  civilian air traffic and you're flying in crowded airspaces without coordination with ATCs thus increasing the risks to safety (e.g. collisions).

Just funny how we have to send fighters to intercept them so they wont enter Danish Air space all the time.
And its everytime we do it.
Its to provoke, not to train.

Air Forces trains everyday, often simulating war/combat condition; however, if you train this way in periods of international tension near territory of countries with each party seeing the other as potential hostile a party could interpret such training as a provocation, Russian see NATO patrols as provocation, NATO see Russian ones as provocation.

Makes you wonder though, why would the Russian aircraft be "invisible" to civilian radar?

Civilian ATC radars are mostly not real radars at all but receive aircraft transponders' signal. Turn an aircraft transponder OFF and the same aircraft will be visible only to Air Defense (a.k.a military) radars and a few primary ATC radars (the real civilian radars). In this condition quality of ATC air picture degrade a lot and workload for air traffic controllers skyrocketed up; thus, risks of accidents go up as well.

No matter what.
A Russian military fighter has nothing to do with a transponder that is off and not visible to civilian ATC Towers.

[Hamuki]

It is clear that the Russian aircraft was being operated in a reckless manner.
Having the transponder off in close proximity to civilian air traffic endangers innocents.
It is entirely consistent with their prior aggressive actions towards airliners and disregard for safety.

Russians dont know how to fly.
They almost hit a civilian plane in Copenhagen, and they were dangerously close to a swedish spy place that was on a test flight.