Bitshares is DEAD

[StanLarimer]

I still have a few old coins, are they still valid

What "old coins" do you have?

[inBitweTrust]

This thread is ridiculous. Bitshares is an interesting coin that has proven itself to not be a scam/shitcoin and has decent support and development behind it.

Bitshares is very much alive .... but in realty slowly dying :



And in all honestly with the current competition and innovations being released will likely slowly capitulate and lose interest much like litecoin has been doing.

[sidhujag]

This thread is ridiculous. Bitshares is an interesting coin that has proven itself to not be a scam/shitcoin and has decent support and development behind it.

Bitshares is very much alive .... but in realty slowly dying :



And in all honestly with the current competition and innovations being released will likely slowly capitulate and lose interest much like litecoin has been doing.

Its just finding support and losing weak longs... same as litecoin... once litecoin reaches it will go up too so will bitshares

[inBitweTrust]

Its just finding support and losing weak longs... same as litecoin... once litecoin reaches it will go up too so will bitshares

This is a huge regression relative to bitcoin which has also crashed so doesn't look good at all. Additionally, there are many more technologies and coins that are formidable vs bitshares (cryptonote based coins) and ones that have been sitting in the sidelines that are likely to instantly overtake bitshares like ethereum.

I am not trying to specifically attack bitshares with my comment and believe litecoin is similarly doomed (I used to mine litecoin and be very optimistic to its future), I'm just being realistic.

[carlbrabant]

another scamcoin?

[sidhujag]

Its just finding support and losing weak longs... same as litecoin... once litecoin reaches it will go up too so will bitshares

This is a huge regression relative to bitcoin which has also crashed so doesn't look good at all. Additionally, there are many more technologies and coins that are formidable vs bitshares (cryptonote based coins) and ones that have been sitting in the sidelines that are likely to instantly overtake bitshares like ethereum.

I am not trying to specifically attack bitshares with my comment and believe litecoin is similarly doomed (I used to mine litecoin and be very optimistic to its future), I'm just being realistic.

Hmm.. well bitshares is the only blockchain that can hire via  system consensus like mining (A more distributed approach over Devcoin which previously was the only chain that hired for work). So as more devs are hired there is exponentially more things to look forward to as an investor.. I think its an interesting model.. on top of that the delegates provide feeds to allow for a proper pegging system such that the use of bit Fiat currencies becomes viable over counterparts.. so I dont see any competition here with bitshares.. I actually see people getting further away from that model which IMO is the wrong way.

[inBitweTrust]

Hmm.. well bitshares is the only blockchain that can hire via  system consensus like mining (A more distributed approach over Devcoin which previously was the only chain that hired for work). So as more devs are hired there is exponentially more things to look forward to as an investor.. I think its an interesting model.. on top of that the delegates provide feeds to allow for a proper pegging system such that the use of bit Fiat currencies becomes viable over counterparts.. so I dont see any competition here with bitshares.. I actually see people getting further away from that model which IMO is the wrong way.

Very good point about the self funding nature of development built into DPoS being unique to bitshares. Certain PoS fund dev from premine, other have venture capital, others has set aside a portion of the total coins to support development but bitshares is its own thing for good or bad.(some would point to the dangers of having a dev strong arm a community into devaluing their investments as a unsatisfactory consequence of DPoS and which has already been witnessed in Bitshares. early investors were promised no inflation and that was an often touted selling point and overnight we saw ~2billion increase to ~2.5billion. I understand this consolidation benefited some but others where understandably upset by such a change, the democratic nature of Bitshares is what scares me and where the minority can have their rights abused. Bitcoin would want unanimous consent to conduct such a change and doing so would be a scandal)

Bitcoin has the advantage of funding its dev easily by the mere interest in its potential and the importance that existing businesses place within it and there dependence upon it much akin to how linux attracts both paid developers from companies and unpaid volunteers who are just interested in padding their resume , the challenge or experience. This is a good side effect found in any large open source project and one that is difficult to achieve elsewhere because of the network effect and first mover advantage.

[sidhujag]

Hmm.. well bitshares is the only blockchain that can hire via  system consensus like mining (A more distributed approach over Devcoin which previously was the only chain that hired for work). So as more devs are hired there is exponentially more things to look forward to as an investor.. I think its an interesting model.. on top of that the delegates provide feeds to allow for a proper pegging system such that the use of bit Fiat currencies becomes viable over counterparts.. so I dont see any competition here with bitshares.. I actually see people getting further away from that model which IMO is the wrong way.

Very good point about the self funding nature of development built into DPoS being unique to bitshares. Certain PoS fund dev from premine, other have venture capital, others has set aside a portion of the total coins to support development but bitshares is its own thing for good or bad.(some would point to the dangers of having a dev strong arm a community into devaluing their investments as a unsatisfactory consequence of DPoS)

Bitcoin has the advantage of funding its dev easily by the mere interest in its potential and the importance that existing businesses place within it and there dependence upon it much akin to how linux attracts both paid developers from companies and unpaid volunteers who are just interested in padding their resume , the challenge or experience. This is a good side effect found in any large open source project and one that is difficult to achieve elsewhere because of the network effect and first mover advantage.

Thats just because bitcoin has already got network effect, no other coin has that thus doesn't have intrinsic value in trying to attract new developers especially those with no stake and only motivation is to try to change the world.. well all coins are trying to do that

The consensus development model allows for a unique approach to attract talent... all it takes is investors to clue in and create the first wave so once the network take effect happens, if it happens, becomes an obvious model to follow for all other projects in the future... ofcourse the one that takes network effect always takes the cake.. unless the competitor truly offers something innovative that joe smith would care about to use.

[StanLarimer]

I guess, in the end, it all comes down to each investor's ability to correctly assess the facts.  

That's as it should be.

They are all laid out there for you in plain sight.

Place your bets.  I've placed mine!  

[sidhujag]

I guess, in the end, it all comes down to each investor's ability to correctly assess the facts.  

That's as it should be.

They are all laid out there for you in plain sight.

Place your bets.  I've placed mine!  

Right just as kids (smart geeks) were the first ones to "see" the facts within bitcoin that made it an interesting buy... and later ended up translating to older folks and business men and later wall street. It's as it should be usually other way around.

[inBitweTrust]

ofcourse the one that takes network effect always takes the cake.. unless the competitor truly offers something innovative that joe smith would care about to use.

Agreed, Bitcoin is so far ahead any other alt but still can fail if it doesn't adapt and evolve. The network effect is really powerful when dealing with currencies and protocols and even if another currency is superior technologically to bitcoin it still is unlikely to have a chance at competing. I really like how many of the devs are anarchists within bitshares and like some of their projects.... the fact is bitshares is dying right now (likely due to the inflation and a botched marketing campaign. ) I would have to think long and hard about what it would take for them to reverse the direction this coin is headed in as there are already many bright and talented individuals invested in their ecosystem that aren't doing much in a way of stopping the capitulation.

[sidhujag]

ofcourse the one that takes network effect always takes the cake.. unless the competitor truly offers something innovative that joe smith would care about to use.

Agreed, Bitcoin is so far ahead any other alt but still can fail if it doesn't adapt and evolve. The network effect is really powerful when dealing with currencies and protocols and even if another currency is superior technologically to bitcoin it still is unlikely to have a chance at competing. I really like how many of the devs are anarchists within bitshares and like some of their projects.... the fact is bitshares is dying right now (likely due to the inflation and a botched marketing campaign. ) I would have to think long and hard about what it would take for them to reverse the direction this coin is headed as their are already many bright and talented individuals invested in their ecosystem that aren't doing much in a way of stopping the capitulation.

I dont think bitusd and other bitassets are being used much yet and the DEX is funally being used now that BTER hack happened... so i think the intrinsic utility finally has been realized and being used... but it has had people with too many coins which didnt care enough to get invovled to market it... and they shouldnt have to.. and we all know that investors of crypto are very short-sighted and lose patience quickly... so I welcome the low price to accumulate some more, the fact is there really is no competition, and alot of projects that are just about to be unveiled... should bump it up a bit atleast.

[StanLarimer]

the democratic nature of Bitshares is what scares me and where the minority can have their rights abused. Bitcoin would want unanimous consent to conduct such a change and doing so would be a scandal)

BitShares is modeled after a company while Bitcoin is modeled after currency.
They are two completely different applications built off the concept of a decentralized transparent public ledger.

Company shareholders elect a board of directors to run the company - a well established model.
Minority shareholders have their rights protected by the company by-laws, and can vote with their feet by selling their shares - when there is a policy change they don't like.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be flexible and competitive like a company.   It needs to be stable and reliable like a currency.  It can stand tall like a powerful mastodon in the tar pits where we puny little mammals would immediately sink if we couldn't quickly adapt to a changing environment.

To compare the two, is to compare apples and orangoutangs.

Wise investors know what they are investing in, and why! 

[inBitweTrust]

the fact is there really is no competition

This is a very dangerous belief to have. Competition is great and does indeed exist even for bitcoin. Dash just overtook Bitshares in market cap and NXT is still fiercely competetive. I can almost guarantee that ethereum will almost instantly overtake bitshares and other gambles like maidsafecoin and counterparty could easily overtake bitshares in a year. This isn't even accounting for the blackswan coins that one doesn't expect either. There is plenty of competition and bitshares is struggling to remain relevant.

Even bitcoin is struggling to survive and be relevant. To not have this mindset shows you don't understand the challenges we all face as a community and the real threats at our doorstep.  

[sidhujag]

the fact is there really is no competition

This is a very dangerous belief to have. Competition is great and does indeed exist even for bitcoin. Dash just overtook Bitshares in market cap and NXT is still fiercely competetive. I can almost guarantee that ethereum will almost instantly overtake bitshares and other gambles like maidsafecoin and counterparty could easily overtake bitshares in a year. This isn't even accounting for the blackswan coins that one doesn't expect either. There is plenty of competition and bitshares is struggling to remain relevant.

Even bitcoin is struggling to survive and be relevant. To not have this mindset shows you don't understand the challenges we all face as a community and the real threats at our doorstep.  

What I meant was competition to the model of bit fiat pegs and pay for work through delegates... i know other coins offer cool tech that bitshares doesn't have and some have enough going to sustain high market caps.. while others are on a pump but i see that there are good projects out there... i meant competition in a very narrow focused field.. not generally.

[StanLarimer]

The competition is no longer about mindshare of the crypto-tribe enthusiasts.  
That's just where you go to attract early adopters and startup capital.
Market cap is a lagging indicator.

The important competition is for a piece of the real world - like a piece of trillion dollar global financial sector or music industry or gaming industry or...

We haven't even started marketing BitShares to its target customers yet.  That must wait till we've applied some spit and polish to the end user interface.

You need to think BIGGER, Pinky.  

[inBitweTrust]

What I meant was competition to the model of bit fiat pegs and pay for work through delegates...

You are essentially describing
 nubits relationship to Nushares
Bitcoins relationship to tether

There will be many more pegs in the future so that is nothing unique. Your idea of not suggesting their exists competition is by narrowing the field so you are referring to a specific algo only.  Investors and users don't think that way . They invest and use a currency that fulfills a purpose for them.

[sidhujag]

What I meant was competition to the model of bit fiat pegs and pay for work through delegates...

You are essentially describing
 nubits relationship to Nushares
Bitcoins relationship to tether

There will be many more pegs in the future so that is nothing unique. Your idea of not suggesting their exists competition is by narrowing the field so you are referring to a specific algo only.  Investors and users don't think that way . They invest and use a currency that fulfills a purpose for them.

As of today id say investing and using a currency outside of bitcoin are two different things and yes id say nubits and tether are no competition to bit fiat pegs in the long run but thats my assumption and time will tell..

nubits and tether and any other fiat peg implementations other than bitshares all have a central point of failure unless they deal with prediction markets which we know have other issues and probably won't work for a pegged asset

[inBitweTrust]

The competition is no longer about mindshare of the cyrpto-tribe enthusiasts.  Market cap is a lagging indicator.

The competition is for a piece of the real world - like a piece of trillion dollar global financial sector or music industry or gaming industry or...

We haven't even started marketing BitShares to its target customers yet.

You need to think BIGGER, Pinky.  

You don't think that others are not marketing to those same demographics as well? Bitcoin has had over 669 million in venture capital flowing into businesses with attempts to push bitcoin into the mainstream.

To be fair, Bitshares may simultaneously lose mindshare and grow in value at the same time as the cryptocurrency marketplace is still very immature. This isn't happening now but bitshares could make some changes in the way it markets itself and is managed and reverse this negative trend. Thus far I still don't see it with the repeated analogies of investing in a business .

[StanLarimer]

Exactly.

Let the Darwinian competition continue.

This is a marathon where the runners grow more conditioned as the race progresses.

The quality and features of MS-DOS at one point in time is not the relevant factor.

You need to consider the first and second derivatives.