Why is the trust changing so much?

[Vod]

I came upon a user account KeyserSozeMC that admitted to scamming someone.  I left this person negative trust.

His trust changed so much that I removed the trust and re-added it, because I couldn't believe what I saw.

His trust before and after my negative feedback.





How can this be?  I don't think I would be able to sleep at night if I had this much power.   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930977.0

[Quickseller]

When a person has equal to or greater then a number of negative trust reports then he has positive trust reports then each additional negative trust report is weighted much more heavily then the last one. If someone has less negative trust reports then positive trust reports then each negative is weighted the same as the last one. (I think a person needs to have a certain number of negative trust reports as well).

As you see in the top picture, he has 4 negative and 5 positive, so he has more positive then negative. Each negative only takes away 4 trust points (the number on the left). Since you gave him the 5th negative trust report and made it so he had the same number of negative trusts as positive trusts, the negative trust that you gave him had a very large impact. This is to fight long term scammers who start to scam after a long period of a good trading history.

Some people have a very high trust score (the number on the left) but only a few positive trust reports because they got their first trust a long time ago, so they could have a rust score of 15, then turn scammer, it would only take a few people to tag them with negative trust in order to get them to have a trade with caution tag

edit: It looks like it had to do with them having more then 5 negative trust reports, not having more negatives then positives. I created two custom trust lists that resulted in the following:

With the below trust list:

Code:

DefaultTrust
grantansing
receiveding
miningxading
meginzate

Your trust score was 31: -4 / +20(20)

With the below trust list:

Code:

DefaultTrust
grantansing
receiveding
miningxading
meginzate
kazatazung

Your trust score was -31: -5 / +20(20)

I think the trust score formula might have changed without public announcement because I was fairly certain that you needed to have more negative trust reports then positive trust reports in order for each additional negative trust to weigh very heavily feature to kick in

[Vod]

I should have added that those trust number changes happened with me only having DefaultTrust in my trust list.  At level 2, it doesn't make any sense to add anyone.

[Quickseller]

I should have added that those trust number changes happened with me only having DefaultTrust in my trust list.  At level 2, it doesn't make any sense to add anyone.

Well how you see someone's trust is based on your trust network. What I did was essentially make it look like that 4 and then 5 people in default trust gave you negative trust in the eyes of the account that I was using. But since I don't have 5 accounts on default trust I used a custom trust list instead.

I will find the formula I believe to be accurate that calculates trust scores

[Vod]

I will find the formula I believe to be accurate that calculates trust scores

Sounds like a complicated formula - hats off to Theymos! 

[EcuaMobi]

Great find Quickseller. I'm also curious about other things regarding trust such as:
- What happens if someone is added by one person from level 1 and removed (~) by 5 people from level 2. Will he be trusted with default level 2 and untrusted with custom level 3? Or does the addition from level 1 have precedence regardless of the number of removals from level 2?
- I see Vod is added by one user from level 1 and removed from someone else from level 1 too so the total sum is 0. However he's still on default trust. Is the rule that 0 is enough?

Isn't there any published guide for this?

[Quickseller]

It is complicated. This is what I believe to be the most up to date one when I asked if it had changed here (for some dumb reason I didn't cite a reference, so hopefully theymos can confirm if it is still up to date

Code:

scam_reports = total unique users who report scamming
reports = total positive ratings
btc = total BTC from positive ratings
unique_reports = total unique users who posted positive ratings
oldest = timestamp of the oldest positive trust rating
latest_scam = timestamp of the latest scam rating

scam_multiplier = 1
# recent scam = bigger negative score
if(current_time - latest_scam < 7 days)
    scam_multiplier += 1.5

# new member = bigger negative score
if(current_time - oldest < 60 days)
    scam_multiplier += 3

months = months since oldest
total = reports + btc/50    # 50 BTC = 1 report

# long-term con men
if(total > 0 && scam_reports > 4)
    scam_multiplier += (scam_reports / total) * 50

# Approximately limit the number of points each person can contribute each month
subtotal = min(2*unique_reports * months, total)
# Newer users have smaller point limits
limited_total = min(subtotal, 10*months) / 10

score = min((limited_total * months - scam_reports * scam_multiplier), 150)

[Vod]

- I see Vod is added by one user from level 1 and removed from someone else from level 1 too so the total sum is 0. However he's still on default trust. Is the rule that 0 is enough?

Isn't there any published guide for this?

I think anyone in the trust list below the person who removed me won't see me as trusted.

However anyone in the trust list below the person who trusts me will.

Since I am still in default trust, it appears that positive trust overwrites removal of trust, but I could be wrong.

It all depends on who you have in your trust list I guess.

[EcuaMobi]

- I see Vod is added by one user from level 1 and removed from someone else from level 1 too so the total sum is 0. However he's still on default trust. Is the rule that 0 is enough?

Isn't there any published guide for this?

I think anyone in the trust list below the person who removed me won't see me as trusted.

However anyone in the trust list below the person who trusts me will.

Since I am still in default trust, it appears that positive trust overwrites removal of trust, but I could be wrong.

It all depends on who you have in your trust list I guess.

I have the default trust set so both of them are there and you appear as "Vod (0)". It seems to me that in case of a tie the addition takes precedence.
Users with at least one more removal than addition appear removed.

[Quickseller]

So maybe I was wrong about having more negative trusts then positive trusts. The long term con man part of the formula is

Code:

# long-term con men
if(total > 0 && scam_reports > 4)
    scam_multiplier += (scam_reports / total) * 50

So if you have more then 4 scam reports then the percentage of scam reports based on your total reports gets multiplied times 50 and that gets multiplied times your scam score (you get 4 negative trust points after 7 days for each scam report)

- I see Vod is added by one user from level 1 and removed from someone else from level 1 too so the total sum is 0. However he's still on default trust. Is the rule that 0 is enough?

Isn't there any published guide for this?

I think anyone in the trust list below the person who removed me won't see me as trusted.

However anyone in the trust list below the person who trusts me will.

Since I am still in default trust, it appears that positive trust overwrites removal of trust, but I could be wrong.

It all depends on who you have in your trust list I guess.

In order for someone to be removed from someone else's trust network more people at a low tier/level need to exclude you then include you. So You are included in TC's trust list (which is level 1 by default) and are excluded by HostFast (who is also on level 1 by default). If one other person on level 1 were to exclude you (or if TC removed you) then you would be out of default trust, although anyone who had TC on level 0 would still see your ratings by default.

If however one other person on level 1 excluded you but someone on level 2 included you then you would still be excluded from default trust

tl;dr the trust system is very complicated - this may be why so few people choose not to make custom trust lists

[Vod]

Well, in whatever case, you won't see me butt-hurt complaining like Tecshare does about having someone ~ my name.  

I accept that my actions have responsibilities and I respect each person's right to modify their trust list as they see fit.  

[theymos]

The trust score algorithm is pretty stupid. I've been adjusting it in various ways to make it work most of the time, but there's really no good reason why people get particular scores, especially in the negative direction.

[TECSHARE]

Well, in whatever case, you won't see me butt-hurt complaining like Tecshare does about having someone ~ my name.  

I accept that my actions have responsibilities and I respect each person's right to modify their trust list as they see fit.  

Yes, what a tiny inconvenience it is to have the highest ranking person in the trust system exclude you from pretty much everyone's trust no matter who includes you, because the exclusion cascades down the default trust list, destroying my already earned trust score. If regular people wanted to remove me, that would be fine, but added me as the very first trust exclusion as retribution for not obeying his commands in regard to him demanding I remove a trust rating (which is not moderated of course, he says!).

You want to know why the trust is changing so much? Just examine your own behavior.

[Vod]

Well, in whatever case, you won't see me butt-hurt complaining like Tecshare does about having someone ~ my name.  

I accept that my actions have responsibilities and I respect each person's right to modify their trust list as they see fit.  

Yes, what a tiny inconvenience it is to have the highest ranking person in the trust system exclude you from pretty much everyone's trust no matter who includes you, because the exclusion cascades down the default trust list, destroying my already earned trust score. If regular people wanted to remove me, that would be fine, but added me as the very first trust exclusion as retribution for not obeying his commands in regard to him demanding I remove a trust rating (which is not moderated of course, he says!).

You want to know why the trust is changing so much? Just examine your own behavior.

Tecshare, there are other forums out there where you can go and be as trusted as a god.  Just have to leave your comfort zone.   

[TECSHARE]

Tecshare, there are other forums out there where you can go and be as trusted as a god.  Just have to leave your comfort zone.   

No one wants to be a god around here but you Vod.

[Vod]

Tecshare, there are other forums out there where you can go and be as trusted as a god.  Just have to leave your comfort zone.   

No one wants to be a god around here but you Vod.

Lol - I don't want to be an imaginary god.  I don't even want to be a mod.  Too much responsibility and too big of a target on your back. 

[doggieTattoo]

I came upon a user account KeyserSozeMC that admitted to scamming someone.  I left this person negative trust.

His trust changed so much that I removed the trust and re-added it, because I couldn't believe what I saw.

His trust before and after my negative feedback.





How can this be?  I don't think I would be able to sleep at night if I had this much power.   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930977.0

I am a bit confused about trust.  Is this a thing that prohibits anything if you have low trust?  Or is it jUST kind of like a public shaming or appraisel thing?

[Nowi]

Many reports per short time probably, but what if some group will lower someone's trust ?

[ipbo]

Even you're trusted a person, when bitcoin shines no will resist it.

[Neotox]

i think trust system it totally changed or crashed
i have seen many peoples trust rating changed or removed
some of them had green trust in past and now red