Mosrite
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sealswithclubs.eu
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September 04, 2012, 07:57:49 AM |
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Easy. If a thread in "lending" or "long-term offers," contains a business proposal, it's a ponzi.
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learn, chat and play with me at sealswithclubs.eu
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bitcoinbear
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September 05, 2012, 11:38:58 PM |
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9. They have "Pass-Throughs". Tentatively this seems like a good indicator. I don't think pass-throughs are typically used in regular project funding. It increases the distance between the investor and the fund-owner and acts as a shield/distraction. It is more indicative of money laundering.
I don't think this is generally applicable. Do you have any examples other than Pirate? An example of a legitimate pass-through is the GSDPT (Gamma satoshiDice pass through), which allows people using one exchange to invest in an asset listed on another exchange.
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JoelKatz
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September 05, 2012, 11:43:58 PM |
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I don't think this is generally applicable. Do you have any examples other than Pirate? An example of a legitimate pass-through is the GSDPT (Gamma satoshiDice pass through), which allows people using one exchange to invest in an asset listed on another exchange.
Madoff would be an example. http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/09/news/companies/madoff_feeder_funds/index.htm?iid=EL
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nrd525 (OP)
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September 05, 2012, 11:55:07 PM |
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MMM used a decentralized system of offices in various towns in Russia - at least according to the website. Similar to a pass-through.
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Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
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WifeOfStarfish
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September 07, 2012, 07:59:45 AM |
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Easy. If a thread in "lending" or "long-term offers," contains a business proposal, it's a ponzi.
Duh - what apart from ''business proposals'' would BE in lending?!
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guruvan
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September 07, 2012, 08:46:56 PM |
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Easy. If a thread in "lending" or "long-term offers," contains a business proposal, it's a ponzi.
Duh - what apart from ''business proposals'' would BE in lending?! LOL. No shit. The "How to identify a ponzi" thread talks about the lack of a business proposal as a potential sign of a ponzi scheme. Now, a business proposal confirms one. The average IQ continues to decrease on this forum. Currently the odds are 1:3 the avg IQ will reach 70 or below before the block reward halves.
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Nefario
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September 16, 2012, 06:51:13 PM |
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PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
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nrd525 (OP)
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September 16, 2012, 07:43:08 PM |
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A variable interest rate is an interesting factor. It lets a ponzi slow down payments if they are not getting enough new investment. On the other hand, a reduction in the interest rate is also a sign of a poorly run ponzi or one that is about to collapse - so most operators won't do it unless they are nervous to desperate. Pirate didn't lower interest rates until the dire end. A variable interest rate can boost confidence if you are always hitting the highest part of the range (artificially outperforming expectations), but if your interest rate actually does vary a lot it will reduce investor confidence.
The other reason for a variable interest rate is to make your project look more legitimate. This is useful if your intended investors have experience with ponzis.
...
There are some interesting investor videos about Zeek Rewards (failed US ponzi scheme valued at $600 million) on Youtube. The level of denial is very similar to that experienced by BTCST investors. When someone writes up the Zeek Rewards story it should be a good case study.
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Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
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nrd525 (OP)
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October 16, 2012, 01:32:21 AM |
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I added this movie: The Man Who Would Be Polka King - movie account of a Polish Pennsylvanian Polka Performer Ponzi (say that five times) that stole $5-$10 million.
I recently watched it on Netflix (Instant Watch) and enjoyed it. A good example of how to build a great relationship in a niche community and use that trust to make money. Though what is really interesting is that it looks like he wasn't in it for the money - he wanted to use the money to build a polka empire and be famous. So he was using the ponzi to fund his other activities that were running at a loss.
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Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
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hgmichna
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October 16, 2012, 06:36:50 AM |
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[…] but if your interest rate actually does vary a lot it will reduce investor confidence.
The other reason for a variable interest rate is to make your project look more legitimate. This is useful if your intended investors have experience with ponzis.
… You cannot easily have it both ways. Fact is that honest high-risk investments always have varying interest rates, so a fixed high interest rate is a Ponzi indicator. Citation from the movie "Chasing Madoff": "There are no straight lines in finance." Thanks for the other movie hint! Will try to get and watch that one too.
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JoelKatz
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October 24, 2012, 08:09:10 PM |
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It's the Ponzi's victims who are the victims of the usury because it's their money that's used to pay the usurious interest rates. The Ponzi operator normally doesn't have any of his own money invested that gets paid to anyone.
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gabbergabe
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December 24, 2012, 01:36:41 AM |
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I added this movie: The Man Who Would Be Polka King - movie account of a Polish Pennsylvanian Polka Performer Ponzi (say that five times) that stole $5-$10 million.
I recently watched it on Netflix (Instant Watch) and enjoyed it. A good example of how to build a great relationship in a niche community and use that trust to make money. Though what is really interesting is that it looks like he wasn't in it for the money - he wanted to use the money to build a polka empire and be famous. So he was using the ponzi to fund his other activities that were running at a loss.
watching now...
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nrd525 (OP)
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March 10, 2014, 10:23:34 PM |
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Latest candidate: http://makebtc.org/Unlike other ponzis which often offer a steady rate of return, this scam has a very weird system of "levels". With their default values it looks like it takes 14 "rounds" to get your money back (if you withdraw 50% / invest 50% in "levels"). After 14 rounds of this, you could get a return of 17%/round with 100% withdrawal. Definitely meets the "high interest" rate of return. Lacks a business model. Looks like a type of ponzi scheme that also uses a pyramid structure. I don't understand the "level" nonsense. Innovative in that it appears to transparent about payments and account levels. This will probably help it gain the trust of users, making it easier to scam people. The domain registration information is fake. There is no person or address connected to it.
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Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
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oztusk
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March 20, 2014, 05:07:35 PM |
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Latest candidate: http://makebtc.org/Unlike other ponzis which often offer a steady rate of return, this scam has a very weird system of "levels". With their default values it looks like it takes 14 "rounds" to get your money back (if you withdraw 50% / invest 50% in "levels"). After 14 rounds of this, you could get a return of 17%/round with 100% withdrawal. Definitely meets the "high interest" rate of return. Lacks a business model. Looks like a type of ponzi scheme that also uses a pyramid structure. I don't understand the "level" nonsense. Innovative in that it appears to transparent about payments and account levels. This will probably help it gain the trust of users, making it easier to scam people. The domain registration information is fake. There is no person or address connected to it. "ponzi" is a word often carelessly used out of place. This thing might more correctly be reffered to as a "pyramid scheme." Similar but different. "scam" though,... that's one of those words that covers a lot. A quick look at makebtc.org is good for a short lol.
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<<< "MY DOG ATE YOUR BITCOIN".. mtGox - - "MY DOG IS EATING YOUR BITCOIN"... Antpool - - "We were drinking espresso with shots of vodka at this little cafe. My laptop was on the table. This big dog came up behind us and,.. and..." ... nicehash ANTMINER is currently servicing 20-30% of the entire network hash rate. Enenatis. Quis interdum ac, aliquet nec est. www.bitmaintech.com Euismod risus sed, venenatis tellus. Aliquam vel. Spontaneous emission is not inherent to an emitter, but rather depends on its electromagnetic environment. "THE DOG ATE YOUR BITCOIN".. mtGox
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nrd525 (OP)
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March 20, 2014, 05:46:56 PM |
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How would you differ a ponzi from a pyramid scheme? A lot of what people commonly refer to as pyramid schemes in the US actually have real business models (see Avon company or Herbal Life). I guess MakeBtc could be described as a pyramid scheme because the website needs to reach a certain level of investment before paying out (if I understand the scam correctly). By contrast, a ponzi typically has a more standard rate of return. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_schemeDid Makebtc directly reward people for enrolling other people in the scheme? That seems to be the standard definition for pyramid scheme.
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Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
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Muhammed Zakir
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June 07, 2014, 01:09:09 PM |
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Thanks for the link. I was wondering what is Ponzi? When I looked the link and the wiki link from that post I understood it. Kindly, Muhammed Zakhir
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JoelKatz
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June 24, 2014, 05:30:20 AM |
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How would you differ a ponzi from a pyramid scheme?
Typically, the fraud in a ponzi scheme consists of secretly using funds from later investors to pay off earlier investors. Generally, there will be some supposed business model (arbitrage, resale, whatever) that doesn't actually exist. In a pyramid scheme, the use of funds from later investors to pay off earlier investors is typically disclosed. The key difference between a pyramid scheme and legitimate multi-level marketing is that a pyramid scheme has no real product sales. In a pyramid scheme, by design, the vast majority of the profit made by early investors comes from the fees paid by later investors and any products sold are, typically, a sham. The line between MLM and pyramid schemes is not always a bright one. One giveaway is that pyramid schemes typically promise you a cut of the membership fees charged to your downline while MLM schemes focus on sharing the proceeds from your downline's sales. If you're getting a cut of your downline's membership fees, that means that part of your membership fees went to whoever brought you in. What *legitimate* purpose does that serve?
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Muhammed Zakir
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June 26, 2014, 01:35:06 PM |
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Thanks for posting this! I have a doubt, Is pbmining.com a Ponzi scheme?Kindly, Muhammed Zakhir
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